Sid: My guest Worship Leader Roy Fields, but I like saying he’s a man that what he lives is “I feel God’s pleasure when I worship.”  And you know what Roy I think God feels your pleasure and when the two kiss miracles happen.  Tell me about the song “Unto You.”  Most of these songs are birthed during worship and during revival.  Tell me about how you happen to get the song “Unto You.”

Roy: Unto you I remember I went to a city called Muskegon in Michigan, United States of America. When I walked in the door knew the moment I walked in it was about 3:45 am on a Sunday morning the pastor met me.  The Lord said to me “You are going to be here awhile.”  Which is normally what we do, we try to set up at a church and we just want to see God move every night there until it’s time to stop.  Well in the middle of one of the services that night we had packed the place out; it probably had about 400 to 500 people there.  I kept hearing this melody during worship (Singing) “Da da da da da.  Da a da, da da da da.”  And I mean over and over and once again like in the “Presence of Angels” song we talked about. All of a sudden it was like an hour later and we’d been playing that over and over and nobody was leaving the room, people’s hands were up, people were on their face on the floor weeping.  Once again people were coming up even testifying in tonight’s worship I just felt all this pain go out of my body and I felt healing and I just knew that it was a song.  Well, I kept that as I say in my arsenal (Laughing), and then 2 years later I hadn’t done anything with it and I went to Nashville and got with a couple of writers that had written for Michael W. Smith and said “Hey guys, can you help me this happened in the middle of worship, I feel like it’s a song to write.”  And they said “What are you hearing on that little melody line?” I said “Man, I hear holy, worthy, and glory but I said, “I’ve already written a Holy, Worthy and Glory” song.”  And I said “There is so many holy worthy, glory songs out there how can we write another one it will just be redundant.”  But Sid I’m sure as you’ve heard it there is no way to get away from it, it is all about worshiping Jesus. The song came we had this great verse “All Creation you know “Cries out Your Name, falling down before Your throne with a mighty anthem raised unto You alone, for You are Holy, Worthy, Glorious.”  I mean I just can’t get away from…

Sid: So many miracles happen when he worshiped with this song; let’s see what happens right now.  “Unto You.”

Excerpt: “Unto You”

Sid: I have to tell you the presence of God in Roy’s concerts are so strong it even affects atheists. Tell me about one atheist that went to one of your concerts Roy.

Roy: Yeah, I had met up with a husband and a wife several years after they had been to one of the meetings that we did in the arena. He had told me how he was an atheist most of his life.  His wife had a deaf ear and they came, they flew all the way from the UK to come to one of those meetings. He said “During the meeting he didn’t really want to be there his wife dragged him into the meeting.”  They were there during the worship one night, well her ear popped open, and according to her fluid started coming out of her ear and she screamed and she said “John, John!”  And he looked over and she said “I can hear, I can hear!”  And he said “He felt like this warm sensation come over him.”  He was such a doubter, such a disbeliever. He said “All of a sudden he felt his arms being pulled up and then his legs being pulled down and he found himself on the floor on his knees with his hands lifted up and saying “Jesus Christ is Lord.”

Sid: This is a 60 year old atheist!

Roy:  Yeah, and this isn’t just a 60 year old atheist Sid, this is a 60 year old British atheist. An American Atheist you can deal with, there not too difficult but you take a British Atheist they are hardnosed and right down to the point there is no God.

Sid: Now did you get any reports on him after he had received the Lord?

Roy:  It was amazing he was telling me, with tears in his eyes Sid, he was telling me since that moment his life has received her hearing. He has led 300 people to Jesus Christ as a result of that moment in his life.  And they are now in Florida, they moved to Florida because of it their whole life has been transformed, and they’re preaching Jesus every day now.  He’s on the streets sharing the gospel with people. He said “Roy I’ve led 300 people and I’ve been serving Him ever since.”

Sid: People are healed of every disease and pain and emotional trauma imaginable when they get under the worship especially worship that’s during revival. Very briefly just a few seconds tell me about the person with cancer that had 6 months to live.

Roy:   This lady was at a meeting with 6 months to live, she had been diagnosed by the doctor that she wasn’t going to survive and that she had to get her affairs in order.  She had been getting constant chemo treatments.  She came into the worship service on a Sunday morning in this little church, a little white church in Pennsylvania. During the worship she just started feeling this warmth come all over her and I began to preach afterwards a little bit.  Of course I peach and play at the same time. I called her out and I just said “Lady I believe today is your day, I can feel God’s saying that He wants to heal you of cancer.”  And it wasn’t a word of knowledge somebody had actually told me the pastor had told me that she had it.  She got out of her chair and she walked across the front with me back and forth. As she did she had major swelling in her legs and her feet.  Her feet were literally so swelled up that her sneakers were bursting at the seams.  And she felt the swelling go down, she felt the pain go away and she sat back down.

Sid: What did the doctors report?

Roy:  A month later she had gone to the doctor and they could not find any cancer.

Sid: I have the coauthor of the bestselling book “Petrus Romanus, the Final Pope is Here.”  And I’m so excited about the brand new book it’s called “Exo-Vaticana” and this book talks about things I have never heard discussed that as far as I’m concerned ties all end-times events together in arena that we’ll be hearing more and more about. Now tell me Cris about project Lucifer.

Cris: Well, where the name Lucifer comes from in the association with the observatory complex on Mt. Gram.

Sid: Now where’s Mt. Gram?

Cris: Okay, in Arizona, this is where the Vatican advanced technology telescope is.  It’s outside of Tucson.  This came from a project by the University of Arizona where they have a conglomerate of Vatican various United States Universities like Notre Dame and the University of Arizona.  And then we have a whole cadre of Germans the Max Planck Institute the institute in Heidelberg.  So these people have all come together to build this observatory complex.  Now the first telescope to appear up on Mt. Gram was the Vatican Advanced Technology telescope. Now the Lucifer device is actually an infrared camera that’s attached to the large binocular telescope which is just a few hundred yards from the Vatican’s facility.  Now this is the most powerful telescope in the world.  I mean they actually say that it gets clearer images than the Hubble Space telescope.  That’s because the University of Arizona pioneered a new mirror technology and the size of the mirror is really the function of the power in telescopes.  Now the Lucifer device like I said is an infrared camera and it’s really useful in looking for exo-planets; planets with earth-like conditions where they think that they might find extraterrestrial life. Now why did they name it Lucifer is beyond me, it really looks like they went to extravagant lengths to kind of force it to be you know the diabolical name of Lucifer.  I mean it’s an acronym it stands for “Large Binocular Telescope Near Infrared Spectroscopic Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extra Galactic Research.”  Now that’s quite a stretch. You know there was a reporter that called them and first they denied that it was associated with the devil.  I mean the name Lucifer is drawn from Isaiah 14 where that famous passages where it seems to talk about the fall of the arch angel who tries to exalt himself above God.  Now you know the German’s they first say “Well, that’s really about the king of Babylon it’s not really about the devil so were not naming that after the devil.”  Then they contradicted themselves in a very next sentence they said that “There’s a German politician whose name is Teufel and that’s actually the German word for devil and he was instrumental in getting the funding for them to build this thing so they wanted to honor him by naming it after his last name which is the German word for devil.

Sid: Now why should we be concerned about this project?

Cris:  You know it begs the question “What is the Vatican doing with an observatory that’s looking for exo-planets, why is the Vatican involved in astrobiology?  They had an astrobiology conference in Rome in 2009 and invited the top secular scientists in the world.  We’re talking about atheists, and you know evolutionists and evolutionists who really believe that life is just an accident that happens by chance.  And because there’s so many other planets out in the universe it’s just the law of averages mean it’ll happen somewhere else as well.  And the Vatican is intimately wrapped up in this.

Sid: Okay so if they believe that life happened by chance then that discounts the validity of the creation story from the Bible.

Cris:  Yes it absolutely does and you know I take them to task in the book of “Exo-Vaticana” especially these Jesuit scientists. You know Sid I don’t see any difference in the sort of things that they are saying you know when it comes to Darwinism and these issues of the origin of life and the sorts of things that someone like Richard Dawkins the famous atheist says. They really have adopted this idea that life just evolved you know from pond scum and you know the fact that the earth is not a very special place means that they can just sort of extrapolate that to happen over and over again and out of the universe. So extraterrestrials are really just an unavoidable part of their world view.

Sid: Now paint me a little picture based on your research because this sounds so ominous about the Catholic Church may actually get into extraterrestrial evangelism?

Cris:  Yeah you know it’s so odd that you would think that you know that it was almost a joke but they’re absolutely serious.  You know one of the things that I would challenge your listeners to do is to just go to your computer and type “extraterrestrial and baptize” into a search engine and hit search and see what pops up.  And what you’re going to discover is thousands of hits of articles mainly interviewing these Vatican astronomers, these Jesuits, who have made all sorts of comments about baptizing extraterrestrials into the Catholic Church.  Now all of that started back in 1992, just about a month before the Vatican advanced technology telescope went into operation on top of Mt. Gram. The leader of the Vatican Observatory Research Group the acronym is VORG.  George Cornye actually gave a bunch of interviews to the press.  At that time he absolutely said that “The Vatican was teaming up with NASA to search for extraterrestrials and then baptizing them into the Catholic Church.”  Now he made these statements and they were reported in mainstream newspapers and articles online and they weren’t – it doesn’t seem tongue in cheek at all, in fact it seems very serious.

Sid: Well, where is this leading?

Cris:  Well Sid you know we don’t believe that what is going on has anything to do with actual extraterrestrials; we don’t think that entities that people are coming in contact with are space aliens. We really believe that this is leading to what the Bible says is the strong delusion; we think that these are evil supernatural entities fallen angels that are deceiving the world.  I think that you know that the worldview that’s associated with evolutionist and Darwinism and its idea that life is nothing special is you know intentionally designed to under mind the Biblical worldview. It’s intimately designed to undermine the gospel and I think that what’s going on is that strong delusion that we see predicted in Biblical prophecy.

Sid: Now let’s go back to what the Bible talks about these Nephilim because that’s what you’re talking about; tell me about that.

Cris:  Well in Genesis 6 it does talk about these entities known as the Nephilim. Now it’s my belief that that term Nephilim is based on an Aramaic word that means giants.  That interpretation is kind of borne out by the Greek translation of the Old Testament that the Septuagint it actually uses the term ugantes. So when you look in you know Numbers chapter 13 it talks about that the Israelites thought that they were grasshoppers in the sight of these huge beings. So it really does seem that these fallen angels are able to manifest bodies and to procreate with human women to create a hybrid offspring that is quite a bit larger than a normal human being.  And that really does seem to be the meaning of the text.

Sid: What Biblical evidence is there that the Nephilim will reemerge in the last days?

Cris: I think the principal starting point is Jesus’ inference that “As in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.” You know when we think of the days of Noah that’s Genesis Chapter 6 and you know that’s where this passage about the Nephilim is found.  So I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to associate the days of Noah with these hybrid offspring with the evidence we see coming from the UFO abduction phenomenon it does seem that the same sort of thing is going on today.

Sid: Speak a little bit about your chapter on the return of hybrid humans; what does that mean?

Cris: Well, the Nephilim are described as hybrids between angelic or these sons of god, elohim, which are spiritual beings who also seem to manifest bodies.  So the Nephilim are hybrids. Then you know the sort of literature that scholars in the UFO community like David Jacobs who is a PhD historian at Temple University wrote a book called “The Threat.”  Where he absolutely believes that these alien entities are collecting human being a for the purpose of a hybrid program to integrate themselves into our world.

Sid: You know it’s kind of interesting that Hollywood has a lot of movies about these things and TV that seems to be very popular now.

Cris: Yeah absolutely you know I wrote about what I call “The UFO Mytho’s” meaning that there is a mythology that associated with aliens and UFO’s that’s really predominate in the culture a lot of people…

Sid: Woops I’m sorry we’re out of time.

Sid: I’m going to tell you something there is such a flood of God’s Spirit coming out of the airwaves right now that all things are possible for you. My guest has been handpicked by God to proclaim to you that no matter what circumstances going on in your life it’s not over.  I repeat, it’s not over; well I have to tell you Ricardo the situation you were in it sure looked like it was over because you young son I believe he was 9 years old dives into a swimming pool and the report you get is there’s less than a 1% chance that he’s ever ever going to be normal again.  He’s going to be confined to a wheelchair the rest of his life, he’ll probably have a breathing machine, a breathing tube, he went from normal to being an invalid for the rest of his life.  But you were not ashamed of the gospel and you were right in that crowded airport and you got down on your hands and knees and you made contact with God and something changed in the spirit world and then you get a telephone call.  Tell me about it.

Ricardo: We got a telephone call Sid from a doctor that we had no idea who he was, I was in Jacksonville, Florida, this was happening to my son in Atlanta, Georgia. This telephone call came from Central California from a man whom we had never met.  My youngest brother-in-law is graduating from high school; they had a high school graduation party at some house that he had never been to.  It happens to be one of the premiering neurosurgeons in Central California whom when my mother-in-law got the phone call about Josiah my son, my 9 year old baby this doctor happened to be walking right by her and said “What’s going on?”  And she told him, what took us 4 hours the waiting room of four hours to find out exactly what was going to happen, what was going to be the official prognosis of our son.  He picked up the phone and in four minutes had us on the phone on a three-way telephone call speaking to the surgeon.  And again throughout this whole situation the supernatural was just unlocked and unleashed where it seemed so desperate we were so desperate for God to move and Heaven shake that we found out that my son was going to be fine.  That they have to do surgery but what the reports that had come in the initial reports were dire exactly like you said.  The diagnosis at that point ended up being that we have to operate but your son is going to be okay.

Sid: Okay, they operate and then recovery should take how long, physical therapy and everything?

Ricardo: It should take about 8 months total that he was able to get out of the hospital and continue the therapy he was able to get out of the hospital within a month.  He was brought home with oxygen tanks to help him breath, he was brought home with a neck brace to help support and strengthen his neck.  But even in that process you know there was still healing going on throughout.  God speaks and he’s healed and he’s okay, but there was still a process that he needed to go through.

Sid:  You know God was in this and God is in so many situations of people that listening to us right now and you just don’t see Him there.  For instance when your son dove into the pool the shallow end and had this life-changing accident there was a friend of yours that had a dream; tell me about.

Ricardo:   We were literally in a physical waiting room in emergency at Scottish Rite Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia.  And not just physically, we believe spiritually to a large degree in a waiting room.  And we didn’t really report this to many people, some pastors, family from around the world would call us.  And a friend of ours her name is Joanie she had just called because she had a dream; when she called our voice mail kicked in.  She ended up calling a friend, they told her what had happened, she rushed to Scottish Rite Hospital in downtown Atlanta.  She found us in the waiting room, she found us in the emergency waiting room.  And her and her daughter she said “Ricardo, I did not know what was going on, but I had a dream; she said “And this is why I called you in the first place.” She said, I had a dream that your son,” she didn’t say which one, she just said “Your son dove into a pool and he dove in head first.”  She said “But my dream was,” she said that “There was an Angel of the Lord at the bottom of this pool holding his head and protecting his neck and he whispered to me, it’s not over, it’s not over.”  She wakes up, her daughter comes running into her room and says “Mommy, I just had” her daughter which is 13/14 years old “Mommy I had a dream and I little bit weirded out by it I’m not sure what it means.”  She said “What is your dream?”  And she said “I had a dream about Pastor Ricardo that his son dove in, Josiah.” She said specifically “Josiah dove into a pool and there was an angel protecting him and this angel said “It’s not over; it’s not over.”  And so basically this mother had to contact us, she hears the story she begins to weep; she runs to the hospital and shares this story with us and we just fell to our knees,

Sid: Did she know about the song you had written 3 months earlier called “It’s Not Over?”

Ricardo: Sid the song was not even released yet, no.

Sid: (Laughing)

Ricardo: It was only written, the song had not been recorded for another 4 months, it hadn’t been recorded yet.

Sid: But you know none of this would have happened I believe if you hadn’t activated what God was already doing behind the scenes by your worshiping God with every fiber of your being.  That’s what I believe.

Ricardo: I believe it with you and in retrospect it becomes so much clearer because it’s hard to the forest in the midst of trees, it’s hard to recognize sometimes where you are until you get a bird’s eye view of where you are.  And I believe when you tap into worship, when you tap into a prophetic worship flow that worship elevates your perspective, elevates you supernaturally spiritually and gives you a supernatural perspective where God is.  God sees the beginning from the end, the end from the beginning.   There’s no time in Him and that’s exactly what we feel that when we through ourselves on the floor, when we begin to cry out unashamedly that Jesus is Lord, that God is control, that Father You never leave us nor forsake us.  That we believe within out heart of hearts every fiber in our being yearn for God’s presence to be activated.  And I believe Sid when God comes according to the word “He inhabits the praises of His people.”  And when God inhabits He brings His entire arsenal with Him, His entire Kingdom, His entire ability with Him. So when God’s presence is with us I believe we just need to tap into that presence to unlock the supernatural.

Sid: Is your son in a wheelchair today.

Ricardo: No sir.

Sid: Is your son on a breathing machine today?

Ricardo: No sir.

Sid: Does your son have a breathing tube today?

Ricardo: No sir.

Sid: How normal is your son today?

Ricardo: I just left, we’re actually traveling and ministering and we left my son two days ago.  He had just scored 12 points in his basketball game; he’s the center of his basketball team.  He scored 12 points and had 4 blocked shots and had 8 rebounds.

Sid: Tell me what effect people have when they hear your teaching, and frankly I never head a teaching on this area in such debt on Biblical hope.

Ricardo:  Sid the world defines hope simply as having a feeling for something to happen, a desire to have something to happen.  Biblical hope is defined as having a strong confidence or expectation that something is going to happen.  Even in medical science you see Jerome Groopman he states in his book “The Anatomy of Hope” from all his patients it’s true, it’s proven hope is an important part.  It’s even more important as medication, anything that he can ever prescribe.  The Bible says through God’s promise of Abraham it can be summed up in Genesis chapter 12 there’s a sevenfold structure of promise that he directs to Abraham.  And just a few the Lord tells Abraham that I’ll make you a great nation, He says to Abraham “You will be a blessing, I will make your name great,” and He goes on. What it’s found in is as God promises Abraham, Abraham I believe his faith was activated through these promises. To me that is exactly what it is.  It’s a promise but it’s a strong belief and desire and/or expectation it’s through the covenants that God had said with Abraham of his first promise to Abraham.  And that was “I will make you a great nation.”  There are promises that I will give you and Abraham’s belief and his trust in God because that’s what faith is.  Our faith is defined as trust, it’s defined as belief and it’s defined as reliance on God.  And that’s what we activated in this situation with Josiah and regardless of what people are walking through they have to trust, they have to believe and they have to rely.  Listen this is not a game or a country club that we’re involved in, this is our life, this is what we actually believe. That when God speaks that we’re to listen and we’re to obey regardless of what we’re walking through, and this is exactly what had happened with Abraham regardless of what Abraham was walking through Abraham trusted, he believed and he relied on the promises of God.  And the promises for his family and future generations to come.  The devil, the enemy will continually remind you of your weakness; listen the enemy knows your name, but he calls you by your weakness. God knows your weakness but He chooses to call us by our name.

Sid: Your know our time is slipping away right now but when you have your concerts or when people listen to your music and when they sit under your teaching supernatural hope develops, faith breaks through and there are no limits with God.  People…you have reports of the deaf hearing, the blind seeing, the lame walking, marriages restored.  People even getting their visions and their calling that they thought was dead…I proclaim to you that it is not over and with God you are a majority in any circumstance you’re in.

Sid: Sharon was raised in an observant Jewish home; she went out to California; she married a successful Real Estate man who wasn’t Jewish, she wanted him to convert to Judaism, he was willing until she came to the question “Will you renounce Jesus?” This was Orthodox Judaism where they require that. He said “No.” She was shocked. To prove him that Jesus was, she called it Roman mythology.” She started studying the scriptures, and she studied, and she studied, and she found things that she never thought possible. She found out about a Messenger of the Lord that is found throughout the whole Torah and the scriptures, and this one was taking worship. He was only something God should have had, and she couldn’t quite figure that out. Then she turned to, you were telling me Sharon that another scripture that had an impact on you was Isaiah 49. Tell me about that.

Sharon: Yes, you know we read Isaiah 49 and we can hear the suffering servant, they call them the suffering servant passages. We know that is the Messiah, the ancient rabbis even recognize that were 2 pictures of the Messiah in the Bible. So we hear the suffering servant lamenting to God that he failed to bring back the 12 tribes of Israel. He failed to reconcile the 12 tribes of Israel. Then we hear God comforting the suffering servant Messiah. God is saying “It’s too small a thing for me to give you to the 12 tribes of Israel only, I will give You to all the nations of the world.” The word nations in Hebrew is “goyim” which means “gentiles.” I had to ask myself the question “When did the Messiah come to the Jewish people, the 12 tribes of Israel to reconcile us back to God? When did that fail? When did God give the Messiah to all the “goyim?” All the gentiles, when did that happen? I had no idea of when that happened, and it was shocking to me to read that.

Sid: You’re reading prediction, after prediction, after prediction, and it’s looking pretty clear that Yeshua really is in fact the Jewish Messiah, but you’re still pretty perturbed and troubled. What do you do next?

Sharon: Well I finished reading the Bible, and growing up in America I realized that there’s a lot of prophecies, and they all seem to sound like “That Person” that people are talking about. I figure I must have missed something because I making a decision there is no way I am going to believe in “That Man.” So I figured I must have missed something, and the rabbis tell us you can’t read the Bible without the commentaries. So I went out and I bought the Rashi Commentaries, I bought the Soncino Commentaries, and I bought the Artscroll Tenach Series by Mesorah Publications. I just kept reading, and reading, and reading. When I finished reading the commentaries I went out and read the Targumim, or the Aramaic translation of the first century scriptures, and I just kept reading, and reading, and reading. I bought Midrash, I kept reading Sasson’s book the “History of the Jews.” I bought the Encyclopedia Judaica; I bought the Talmud, and I just kept reading, and reading, and reading; I kept researching hoping that something I would be able to understand why all of these ancient writings were pointing me towards “That Man.” I began reading what they call anti-Missionary books. Books with such titles as “You Take Jesus I’ll Take God,” or a book with the name “I Was a Jewish Cult Buster” by Aryeh Kaplan, and just kept kept reading, and reading, and reading. Kept going back to the Jewish Book Store just kept reading, and reading, and reading, and there was a very interesting book called “The Messiah Text” which discusses how the ancient rabbis always recognized that there were 2 pictures of the Messiah in the Bible. They even had names for them, “Mashiach Ben Yosef,” Messiah son of Joseph who would come as a suffering servant, and Mashiach Ben Daveed, Messiah son of David who would come as a conquering hero King. With all of these books that I had read I was in shock, and felt this was the time I needed to call my rabbi. I needed help, and so I called up my rabbi and called up Rabbi Mendel Duchman and his wife Rachel, and I asked them to please come to my home and they did. They came to my home and I showed Mendel and Rachel my library because by now I had a library with all these books. I shared with them what I was finding in this research I was doing. They thought for a moment and they said not to fear they have someone who can help me. A few days later I received a phone call from Rabbi Ben Ziyon Kravitz…

Sid: This is a rabbi that is a specialist in talking Jewish people out of their faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

Sharon: Yes, he’s a deprogrammer. The first time we met he came to my home, and he was actually in my home for 10 hours, and we discussed the Bible; we discussed Jewish history; we discussed Maimonides book, “Guide to the Perplexed.” We just kept reading, and reading, and saw that this was a rabbi that was coming from a very modern approach, I was coming from a very traditional approach having read all of these books.  I could see where a scripture like Isaiah 53, when I read Isaiah 53 I recognize that it’s about the Messiah as the ancient rabbis always recognized Isaiah 53 as the Messiah, but…

Sid: Listen I read Isaiah 53 to my Orthodox Jewish father and he said to me “Stop reading to me from that Christian Bible. You’re describing Jesus” and I said “Dad look this Bible is inscribed by our Orthodox rabbi. It’s an Orthodox Jewish Bible”

Sharon: Yes.

Sid: I mean talk about being blind.

Sharon: Well the modern rabbis take the modern approach that it’s talking about Israel, or the Jewish people…

Sid: Which if you use just pure logic it can’t possibly be either. This still wasn’t enough for you. You’re still not believing in Jesus, you continue talking to other very prominent Jewish people that their position is Jesus is not the Messiah.  Tell me about some of them.

Sharon: Well Gerald Sigal wrote a book, after I had met with Rabbi Ben Ziyon Kravitz… there was a new anti-missionary book at that time that right off the press, you know. It was called the “The Jewish Response to the Christian Missionary.” Gerald Sigal had written this book and Rabbi Ben Ziyon Kravitz thought it might help me. Well I read the book, then I told Rabbi Kravitz, “Well I’m ready now to discuss the book,” and he said “It would be wonderful if you would be able to discuss directly with the author.” Actually Gerald Sigal at that time lived in Brooklyn, New York; he was a Brooklyn school teacher. So Rabbi Kravitz and Gerald Sigal devised a plan, every Monday night Gerald Sigal would call me collect and we would discuss his book, and this went on for many many weeks. Gerald Sigal would call me Monday night and we would discuss many aspects of his book where I disagreed with things that he was saying. Such as he would give the example that there are no women in Jewish genealogies, so we can’t trust the genealogy in the New Testament, but actually that’s not true we do have Jewish genealogies that have women in them. For example…

Sid: I tell you what we’re out of time.

Sid: On yesterday’s broadcast I’m interviewing David Brennan and God has raised him up as an end-time voice of prophecy. He has information of revelation from the book of Zechariah and the four horns and the unity that they’re going to get.  And the unity that they’re going to have; and explain who the Quartet is that the book of Zechariah is speaking of.

David: Yeah the Quartet is the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia. They have united under the term Quartet; that’s an official international the Quartet.  They have a leader and they have a goal; the goal is to scatter the land of Israel in the name of peace.

Sid: What do you mean scatter the land of Israel?

David: Take it away from Israel the land that is specially and Biblically promised to the Jews to be restored is to be taken away and given to the Palestinians to have a homeland for themselves instead of living within the borders of Israel.  We know from the scriptures that when you attempt to remove the land that God has given to the Jews that it’s a very bad idea.

Sid: And then we were talking on yesterday’s broadcast about the diabolical supernatural that has catapulted an administration that is playing right into end-time prophecy.  For instance our current administration is buddy buddy with the Muslim-Brotherhood.  They go to the White House but most people really don’t understand the Muslim-Brotherhood as a matter of fact they’re positioned as peace loving.  And they’re winning all of these elections in these countries that are dumping their dictator and having democracy. The Muslim-Brotherhood is winning and controlling them. Tell me what you found out about the Muslim Brotherhood.

David: You’ve got to go back to 1928 Sid that’s when it all began; the Muslim-Brotherhood was founded by a school teacher. During the 1930′s he built it in to a real political force within Egypt.  And they have as their goal the creation of an Islamic Caliphate or an Islamic people into one nation let’s say under the Sharia law.  Sharia law is a brutal law and you know it’s where men can kill their daughters who have received dishonor and that sort of thing.  But to show just how radical that they are even back in the 1930′s, now remember this is before the Jews were back in their land, so there was no beef so to say between the Muslims and the Jews at that time in Palestine.  But the Muslim Brotherhood sided with the Nazi’s against the British, they went as far as to translate Mein Kampf, Hitler’s insane rantings in Arabic so Muslim’s could read his words.  They’ve got a new tactic though, they are not stupid, they’ve been every patient they’ve waited for years for a President Obama.  And Obama invited them to a speech he gave his big speech in Cairo when he first took office, which was the beginning of the signal of a shift toward them because no President had done that previously.  They present themselves as peaceful, and it’s to deceive and bring others in so that those others become vulnerable.  Obama’s now the U.S. National Director of Intelligence James Clapper stated that they’re peaceful before Senate Committee which drew harsh responses from senators because they had no delusions a number of those senators they knew the Muslim-Brotherhood is not peaceful.  It’s a dangerous organization there’s probably no rooting them out now, it’s a whole new reality for Israel on the Sinai border and it’s dangerous.

Sid: What is, tell me the bottom line, what is their goal?

David: There goal is the destruction of Israel and the taking of Al Quds which is Jerusalem they call it Al Quds as the capital for a Muslim Caliphate to where all Muslim’s will be united and Israel does not fit into that plan.  They are a myopic they are one sided in the destruction of Israel, there’s no negotiation; they can change that there is nothing that can change that.

Sid: Well, they want their brand of Islam to control the world?                                      

David: Yes, ultimately they do. That is the plan of Islam is to have the entire world worship Mohammed and come under the osmosis of Islam.

Sid: So we see this orchestrated from these really obscure prophecies that people thought were already fulfilled but as you pointed out they could not be from Zechariah about the Quartet. What about one of the members of the Quartet is the United States, what do you see happening in the United States?

David: You know the United States has lead the charge for the removing the land, that’s all been done under the guise of peace and everyone wants peace and certainly God want’s peace, but not a false peace. All of what has been done will result in a false peace for example all of progress that was made and I put progress in quotation marks of removing the land and giving it autonomy to the Palestinians has in no way stopped them from preaching within their masque the destruction of Israel and that all Jews are not even human but are subhuman which is eerily similar to what we heard, what was talked about in the 1930′s by the Nazi regime.  So here’s what looks like is coming at America, when you look at the 13 historically significant calamities that coincide with the efforts to remove the promise land they portend that something very bad is approaching if we push Israel into a peace treaty, and this is the thing that people should look for.  If there is a peace-treaty between Israel and the Palestinians and the media is proclaiming this peace when they say “This is peace and safety then sudden destruction comes upon them.”  And it comes like a thief in the night and we’re told by scripture that thieves in the night are they don’t tell you that they’re coming.  But in that same scripture in 1^st Thessalonians chapter 5 it tells us the believer’s to be watchful and sober.  And so apparently what is going to happen whatever it is, it’s going to happen is going to be a big surprise to people across the world because it will hit them like a thief does in the middle of the night you don’t know when a thief if coming.  But yet those that are watchful and sober and look at the signs of these times and the warnings that have been coming out those are the people that will not be surprised.

Sid: Well, actually you told me that the Lord used that scripture and actually spoke to you that is the thing to look for.

David: He did, He did in deed I felt very strongly that His Spirit relayed to me. Indeed when they say “Peace” that there is going to be some really bad things that were going to unfold and I don’t know if that means that when the peace-treaty is signed or if when in the peace-treaty the Israeli’s remove themselves from the land and it’s officially declared.  If you go back to the Katrina incident it was only after Gaza the removal of the Jews from Gaza was completed on August 23, 2005 on that date is when Katrina was first identified it might give us a hint as to the timing of the response to any peace treaty.

Sid: And the magnitude of the disaster that’s going to occur, I mean this really is a battle for God being able to be God and give the Jewish people the land He promised that they would have forever.  And anyone that goes against what God says suffers the consequence.                      

David: And here’s another consideration Sid, when we look at the historical nature of the calamities that have occurred if they represent a warning; if they represent a warning and they would be like a broken record warning of peace and then sudden destruction.  Then whatever event it is that they are alerting us to has to be a magnitude more significant than even these historically significant events and that is very disconcerting.  I love my country with all my heart and I hate to say these things.

Sid: My guest most of you are familiar with her Frances Hunter. Charles and Frances Hunter are known as the “The Happy Hunters.” Recently I interviewed a woman and I made a statement I said “You probably have witnessed more physical miracles before your eyes than anyone in history.” That woman’s name is Joan Hunter daughter of my guest Frances Hunter. I’ve got to correct that Frances obviously you’ve seen much more than Joan has seen.

Frances: Well I have to tell you what Benny Hinn said recently. We were at a meeting of his and he said “I have probably seen more miracles than anybody in the world except Charles and Frances Hunter.” We praise God for that because God has so blessed us and let us see all kinds of miracles, and we see them all the time.

Sid: Now for those that aren’t aware you recently celebrated a birthday.

Frances: Yeah!

Sid: Tell me which one.

Frances: Number 9-0, 90.  Isn’t that incredible?

Sid: It’s wonderful. It is wonderful. Frances just to whet the appetite of some of the people that maybe they’re from some other planet and they haven’t heard of you, I want to tell me about one amazing miracle, or miracles that come to mind right now.

Frances: Two of them come to mind right now. One of them was the first big one we ever saw. A little boy was born with Cerebral Palsy and he had never walked his entire life. His mother and daddy got ahold of a book called “How to Heal the Sick,” and they thought God still heals today and they didn’t realize it. They thought “I wonder how we can get ahold of these people,” and they picked up the newspaper and the newspaper said we were going to be in Louisville, Kentucky the next day. They were about 100 miles from Louisville, Kentucky. So they drove down there with this little boy he was 4 years old and he had never walked in his entire life. They had braces on his legs in attempt to help him standup but he had never walked. So they brought him and I sat him on my lap, and I don’t know which one of us prayed but probably both us, or one or the other, it doesn’t make any difference. Whether it was Charles or whether it was me but we commanded that spirit of Cerebral Palsy to come out. Then we said to the mother and daddy “Now we cannot take off the braces but you can.” So they took the braces off and we said “Jeffy run down those stairs and run to the back of the church auditorium.” Now remember this child had never walked, but while I had been holding him on my lap I said “Jeffy do you believe Jesus can heal you?” He said “Yes.” I said “When is He going to do it?” He said “Now!” So we stood Jeffy on his feet, and remember he had never stood up before and took one wobbly step off of the first step, then he took another wobbly step off of the second step, and all of a sudden he took off and ran all the way down the aisle to the end of the church where his grandfather was. Then he turned right around and he ran back. I was standing on the same level where he was and this little kid who had never walked in his entire life jumped up and put his legs around my waist, and was hugging me, and hugging me, and hugging me. Now his family gave me his braces because he said I’ve always wanted a pair of shoes that weren’t braces. So they gave me his braces, which I have in my office today. BUT here is the real interesting part about that, that was probably 32 years ago and I thought the other day “I wonder if I could ever get ahold of him?” So I checked in a Louisville, Kentucky telephone book and he has a very odd name it’s spelled like C-Z-I-E-R-W-I-E-N, you know one of those very unusual names.

Sid: Hmm.

Frances: So the telephone operator said there were 3 so I picked one. I said “Is this Jeffy who had Cerebral Palsy?” This was the answer “Yes, but I was healed at a Charles and Frances Hunter service.”

Sid: Oh that had to be one of the thrills of your life to talk to him so many years later. You know the skeptics say “Well it’s just psychosomatic when people are healed but they’re really not healed.” I wish they had the data that I have in my office, that you have in your office. You said there were 2 miracles that came to mind, what was the other one?

Frances: Well another one that came to my mind was not a miracle of one person, but of over 100. We were down in Bogotá, Columbia and I speak a little Spanish so I walked off the stage to the first one who was so crippled. You know so many people are crippled in South America because they don’t have Medicare, they don’t have Blue Cross or Blue Shield or anything like that. So it’s either a question of you and me God, or it’s not at all. I think that’s one reason they have so much faith as well. So I walked over to the first one and I could speak a little Spanish, and so all I could say, I can’t ask them “What’s wrong” because I can’t understand what they tell is wrong. So I just said in Spanish “Be healed in the name of Jesus.” The very funny part about it the next thing I wanted to say in Spanish was “Rise up and walk.” I could think of the word “levantarse,” but I could not think of the word to “walk.” God put it in my mind in the funniest way that anybody could have possibly done it because he put in my mind a little song that we all sung as little kids “La cucaracha, la cucaracha.

Sid: Right.

Frances: La cucaracha, la cucaracha ya no puede caminar porque no tiene, porque…

Sid: Well I never sang it that much in Spanish, but I know the song. (Laughing)

Frances: The funny thing is that means “The cockroach, the cockroach he is not able to walk.”

Sid: I never knew that’s what it meant, but okay go ahead. (Laughing)

Frances: So God gave me the word, “Walk” I said to the man “levantarse” which means “Get up” and I said “Walk” and he did. I have to be honest with you Sid I almost fainted because he looked so crippled up. I turned around to Charles I said “Maybe he wasn’t as crippled as I thought he was” but I tell you a beautiful, I think it was an angel took him out to the center floor walked all over the place. So I thought “Wow, if this works let’s do it again.”  We went down the line of wheelchairs there were over a hundred wheelchairs, and the first 16 got out the exact same way. Number 17 we said exactly the same thing too and he sat right there, but before we finished over 100 people had gotten out of wheelchairs in one service. You know the funny part about it, the last 20 were so afraid that we’d run out of power before we got to them that they got up out of their wheelchairs and said “Quiero sanar, quiero sanar” which means “I want to be healed.” They didn’t even realize that they had been healed, but just their faith when they saw all the other people being healed they got out of their wheelchairs.

Sid: Frances that story reminds me of in your book “How to Heal the Sick” you talk about a prophecy that Tommy Hicks had. Would you read that from your book?

Frances: Well I tell you I’m gonna read this little part of it because I think it’s so interesting. He said “The greatest thing that the church of Jesus Christ has ever been given lies straight ahead. It is so hard to help men and women to realize and understand the thing that God is trying to give to His people in the end-times. I received a letter several weeks ago from one of our native evangelists down in Africa down in Nairobi. This man and his wife were on their way to Tanganyika. They could neither read nor write, but we had been supporting them for over 2 years. As they entered into the territory of Tanganyika they came across a small village. The entire village was evacuating because of a plague that had hit the village. He came across natives that were weeping and he asked them what was wrong. They told about their mother and father who had suddenly died and had been dead for 3 days, they had to leave. They were afraid to go in they were leaving them in the cottage. He turned and asked them where they were, they pointed to the hut and he asked them to go with him, but they refused. They were afraid to go, but the native and his wife went into this little cottage and they entered in where the man and woman had been dead for 3 days. He simply stretched forth his hand in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and spoke the man’s name and the woman’s name, and said ‘In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I command life to come back to your bodies.’ Instantaneously these 2 heathen people who had never known Jesus Christ as their savior sat up, and immediately began to praise God. The Spirit and the power of God came into the life of those people.” To us that may seem strange and a phenomenon, but that is the beginning of these end-time ministries. God is going to take the do nothings, the no bodies, the unheard of, the no accounts and He is going to give to every man and every women. He is going to give them this outpouring of the Spirit of God. Sid I believe with my heart and soul that’s the age you and I are in.

Sid: You’re 90 years young.

Frances: Yep.

Sid: Will you witness this with your eyes Frances Hunter?

Frances: Yes, no question at all.

Sid: Okay, it’s no question to me at all either that the rain is beginning to fall. We’re about ready to see the greatest miracles in all of history. I believe that’s why God had you write the book “How to Heal the Sick.” It’s so simple and it’s so faith building, what reports do you get from people who have read the book “How to Heal the Sick?”

Frances: The young man met my granddaughter and he said to her “I just read the most incredible book” he said, “I read in here where ordinary people can lay hands on the sick and they recover.” So he said when I finished reading the book he said “I was never so turned on in my whole life. It said if you’ve got a back problem you can heal that.” So he said “I thought if this book is true then I can do it myself.” So he said I sat down just like they told me in the book; I stuck my legs out in front of me, and I had one leg that was an inch shorter. So he said “I said just what they said in the book, and you know what my leg grew out,” and he said “I don’t have any more back problem.” The book he read was “How to Heal the Sick.”

Sid: We’re out of time.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world, where it’s naturally supernatural. I’m here with Clarice and Ron Holden. What would happen to you if you got a phone call and found out that your husband was just hit by a drunk driver? Worse than that, he had a truck. And your husband had three hours to live. What would you do? How would your world be changed? Well what Clarice Holden did is so amazing to me. I know the story, I know the results, and I’m still in awe over what Clarice did. But I want to go back a little bit. Ronnie, your dad was an alcoholic, you were an alcoholic, you were into drugs, and your wife gets religion. What did you think about her?

RONNIE: I thought she had completely lost her mind.

SID: Well did you give her a hard time?

RONNIE: Oh absolutely. All I could, I gave her a hard time. I didn’t believe what she was doing.

SID: Ok. You had a prophecy. In other words, a man said “I have a message for you from God.”
What was that message?

CLARICE: He said, “The last two years have been a living hell, but the next two are going to be even worse.

SID: Oh no! How would you like to get a word like that?

CLARICE: It was not good at the beginning, but he finished by saying “Your husband will be on his deathbed, flat on his back, all alone, and he will see the salvation of God. He will have a visitation from God.” And I said, “How in the world is this going to happen? He will not speak to a Christian.” You know, whenever something like that happened, I just could not picture it. But that’s the way it happened.

SID: Ok. Ronnie, tell me about the day, the moment, this prophecy came to pass.

RONNIE: It was in 1984. It was February 17th. I was lying in bed, and somehow I just woke up.
It was like 3 o’clock in the morning, and I was lying in bed. I was in rehab. And I looked up and the room was white, like clouds were in the room. And this Man was standing over the bed, and to me, it looked like a picture I had seen in the Bible of Jesus when I was a little boy. And He just stood there and put His hands out to me, and I didn’t really realize what was going on, but at that time I was delivered of alcohol and drugs and things in my life.

SID: Now when you say delivered, how bad was your alcohol addiction?

RONNIE: I drank all the time. I’d stay out two or three days, I had blackouts. I drank pretty much most of the time.

SID: But you can’t… You understand now, you can’t instantly lose an addiction like that. Are you telling me, instantly you lost this addiction?

RONNIE: Well I didn’t think so either. I had tried so many different ways to lose it, and I didn’t realize it’d really happened. But when I got up and went outside, I started thinking about alcohol and thinking about drugs, and I physically got nauseated even thinking about it. I had no desire for it at all.

SID: What kind of drugs were you on?

RONNIE: I was addicted to cocaine…

SID: Again, you can’t just walk away from cocaine. You had a real miracle.

RONNIE: In the natural world you can’t, but I had a miracle. And I wasn’t really expecting anything to happen to me. I’d never heard of anything like that before. I never knew anybody that that happened to. But I cried out, and I knew I was going to die, and I only had one chance. I had heard about religion or God, but I didn’t think He’d help me, because I was a mean person. I was a bad person. And I had no idea God would help me, but as a last resort, after I’d tried everything else, I cried out to God “I’m going to die, I’m not going to make it. I only have a few more days the way I’m living my life.” And that happened. It changed my life.

SID: Clarice, when he told you this story, what went on inside of you?

CLARICE: Well first, I got a call from him; he said, “Will you bring me a Bible?” I’m like “Oh my goodness, yes I’ll bring you a Bible.” And I got there, I was so excited, it was just amazing. It was what I had always dreamt of and prayed for, and to see him acting different. And he just played this game. He would take that Bible and he would open it up and he would point, and whatever he wanted, God was so supernaturally showing him what he wanted to see, and it was the answer that he needed at that time.

SID: Listen, you got, not only a brand new husband, God began to prosper the two of you. Tell me just briefly, Clarice, how He prospered you financially.

CLARICE: Well, first of all, He restored our marriage. That was number one, which was wonderful. And then, our restaurant, it flourished. God really just showed Ronnie how to go in
and change things in the menu and in the restaurant, and it just started prospering. And then we opened a clothing business, and that has been phenomenal. God has just blessed both of them. And we have invested in real estate, and it’s been good, and it’s really been great. It really has.

SID: I mean it sounds almost like a storybook romance. A marriage is restored; their finances are being showered, Ronnie, you’re hearing from God on how to prosper in your business. And then, on May 8th, 2000, he gets hit by a drunk driver in a car. The driver’s in a truck. You literally catapulted out of your car? Did you have your seatbelt on?

RONNIE: I had a seatbelt on; it broke it off the back of the seat and threw me out the passenger window.

SID: And then, you go out the passenger window, and the truck comes rolling over and just stops short of falling on you, but it doesn’t matter, you had everything imaginable wrong with you. I mean the doctors actually said three hours to live.

SID: The only word I can come up with is amazing, when you look at how quickly when the United States does something against Israel judgments hit the United States. If it was one, coincidence, if it was ten, still coincidence, but how many John McTernan have you personally identified?

JOHN: About seventy Sid, and I have probably about forty in my book, thee was too many to put them all in the book.

SID: Many, most within 24 hours?

JOHN: Same day Sid, twenty-four hours yes.

SID: give me some examples.

JOHN: Sid we have recent examples, June we had the massive floods in Iowa, worst floods in history, do you remember them Sid?

SID: Yes of course.

JOHN: Okay, at the height of the flood Condoleezza Rice was in Jerusalem and she was furious at the Israelis, absolutely furious because they were building homes in East Jerusalem, and the reason she was furious is they want East Jerusalem to become a Palestinian State, she wouldn’t admit that but she wants that to be the capital of the Palestinian State. She went as far as to say Sid, that the United States would not recognize those homes as being part of Israel. At the exact time she was there, at the exact time she was saying this, we were having Iowa with the worst floods in history, we had major cities in Iowa under water, we had the crops being destroyed, the dollar was absolutely free- falling, the stock market was crashing, and the price of oil was surging record, and that is in June. She goes there in August and she is doing the same thing and we have while she is there Tropical Storm Fay hit Florida four times, it hit Florida, came out and came back to hit.

SID: That was unusual the way that came about.

JOHN: The weathermen were amazed at this. But the exact time she was there bullying Israeli again, we had the entire state of Florida being devastated by Tropical Storm Fay.

SID: Keep Condoleezza away from Israel.

JOHN: Right, right, well Sid the unofficial, official policy of the United States has been to, in these negotiations, has been to divide Jerusalem, they haven’t said anything officially but unofficially it is obvious, like I just shared in June with Condoleezza Rice what she did. On September 11th of all days, the council general of the United States in Jerusalem finally let the cat out of the bag and said that the United States is officially working to divide Jerusalem. The State Department immediately denied it, they said these, they didn’t quite deny it they said these are being done in secret and they shouldn’t discuss it. Sid, the next day Hurricane Ike hit Texas.

SID: The next day?

JOHN: The next day Sid, the next day. And we know the damage that it has done. It has devastated Houston and Galveston, I mean just tremendous areas have been devastated by this; tens of thousands of homes destroyed and people homeless. Sid then on, actually it was Friday and it was Saturday when the Hurricane devastated the coast of Texas. Then Saturday and Sunday Lehman Brothers Bank failed, which is the largest bank in American, I guess in world history to fail, 639 billion dollars. Monday the stock market fell 300 and something points, it went up and it fell 400, and we know the chaos that has occurred since. So we have on a Thursday the United States coming out and it is official that we are working to divide Jerusalem, the very next day Hurricane Ike hits, the next day the Lehman Brothers Bank fails, then the stock market has been in absolute convulsions with huge loses and everything and you can trace it right back.

SID: Now John, your book covers this, I know you have said, this is the updated version, which just really is as updated as you can get, it is just literally off the printing press, but you have sent your book to senators and congressmen but sending it and reading it are two different things but if I could put you at this moment transport you to the US Senate what would you say to our senators? Look in the cameras and talk to them.

JOHN: Sid I would say to the politicians of America especially Sid, it is not the senators as much as it is the President and the State Department, that seems to be the real problem, Sid, and I would tell the President of the United States that as you divide Jerusalem, as you divide the Covenant Land, God is going to divide America Sid. To back off Jerusalem, to back off the Covenant Land, that America has no right to interfere with God’s prophetic plan.

SID: Well someone might say, “I’m a Muslim, I’m Hindu, what do I care about that?”

JOHN: Well Sid, it doesn’t really matter to the Lord whether you do it in ignorance or you do it with will, that if you, whomever interferes with God’s Covenant Land, who interferes with God’s prophetic plan for Israel, because we know Sid, ultimately the nation of Israel has to be there for the redemption, and the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

SID: So what we do know is we know Israel will be there but we don’t know about the United States.

JOHN: Sid, with what I believe the Lord has been showing me, the United States does not have long to exist as we know it, we have done everything to provoke the Lord, but the church will not listen Sid, there is a glazing that comes over people’s eyes when I speak to them about this, when I talk to pastors they refuse to stand up, they refuse to repent, they refuse to lead in prayer and fasting, and ask the Lord to have mercy on us for what we are doing, to change our governments policy, they act like nothing is happening Sid. And the judgments are falling all around us.

SID: What are you feeling in your belly at this moment?

JOHN: A complete economic meltdown; that we are heading into a third world nation with poverty Sid.

SID: You know the prophet Joel in the third chapter says that nations will be judged in the last days amazingly over only one issue, and the one issue it specifically says for dividing up my land. And now you look at this book that documents up to modern days, every single time the United States has lifted their finger against Israel horrible economic judgments, hurricanes, flooding, so what are we supposed to do at a time like this? There is only one thing that you can do and that is open up your heart to intimacy with God, that is all that counts, there are people listening to me right now and you go to church, you go to mosque, you go to synagogue, but I have to ask you the most important operative question, do you know God, it is wonderful that you watch people on television that know God, it is wonderful that your pastor knows God, but do you know God? This life is just a blink of the eye, that’s all that it is, and then eternity, and where are you going to spend eternity, who are you going to spend eternity with? You do not know when your end will come. This is the moment that if you have ever, ever, ever, thought it is possible to know God I tell you it is, if you have ever thought that God doesn’t love you, you are wrong because God is pure love. If you will reach out to God in your way and the only way is in the Name of Jesus, if you will say I repent of my sin, I am sorry and I ask to be forgiven, I make Jesus my Lord, my Savior, the choice is yours, God’s has already made a choice, He loves you, He so loves you He sent His Son. Now you chose God, it is life or death. Intimacy or nothing.

Sid: Hello, Sid Roth here with Gary and Kathy Oates, and Gary and Kathy just want to see what the Bible says, they go to Brazil, he takes his shoes off in a meeting because the Spirit of God told him to do it, it’s dirty, he is resisting, had he not done that then the next thing wouldn’t have happened, he literally finds himself out of his body, he sees angels, he see Jesus, he comes back into his body and what happened next?

Gary: Well

Sid: Oh you told me your hand started burning.

Gary: Yes, my hands were burning, it was like my left hand was on fire and I didn’t feel like I could take it any longer and it was right then that Jesus let go of my hands and my spirit came back into my body. Now because my spirit had been in the presence of the Lord like that when my spirit came back into my body my body was like it exploded.

Sid: Now Kathy, what did he say to you after that?

Kathy: He couldn’t talk.

Sid: What do you mean he couldn’t talk; he could do a good job of speaking.

Gary: Listen, I was completely wasted, I couldn’t I was laying on the floor, it was like I was nailed to the floor, I couldn’t, I could hardly move, I was crying and I was saying, “God, I don’t understand all this stuff, I just want more of you.” I felt so little and so insignificant in the presence of Almighty God that it was the most incredible, awesome experience I had ever, I had ever had.

Sid: Okay, next day, fast forward, what happened?

Gary: Next day I got to the meeting early, the power of God hit me, I was on the front row, I hat the floor and again, I could not move and I was thinking what is going on, because I had difficulty speaking that whole day, I mean I couldn’t even get words out of my mouth, the presence of God was on me continuously during that time, I was weeping. Well I was on the floor and I saw the worship team as they began to worship and all of a sudden everything changed and God took me to a place, I saw a gold path, gold steps, a gold platform.

Sid: Now you have to understand he ahs never had experiences like this before, this is more like the Bible than what goes on with most religious Christians, so who do you want to choose, do you want to choose what a phenomena that occurs that is similar to the Bible or would you like to take a look at religion? Me, I like the Bible, go ahead.

Gary: Well I saw the gold platform, gold steps, on top of this top platform I saw a very large throne, I didn’t see anybody sitting on the throne, but to the right of the throne I saw Jesus standing there, he was wearing different clothes this time, and he had a scepter in his hand, and from his waist up the brilliance of light coming from him was overwhelming, I could barely look at it, and honestly Sid, I thought I was going to die. In fact, I thought you know, maybe I had died and gone to heaven because it was that real. Right then I came back into my body and I was writhing in agony on the floor, I had a look of terror on my face, I was screaming but no sound was coming out of my mouth. And Kathy saw me in that condition.

Kathy: Right.

Gary: And she was hollering you know, do something, do something, to the other guys around me.

Kathy: Right, it scared me.

Gary: And they said turn.

Sid: Did you think he was having a heart attack?

Kathy: I didn’t know what was happening, you have to understand you know, coming into a foreign country and then all of a sudden, Gary, I had never, never known him to be afraid about anything, not one thing in his life, he has always been positive, courageous, and to see the terror on his face, it was petrifying to me.

Sid: Okay, what happened next?

Gary: Well I was, they didn’t realize what was happening to me, the reason I had the look of terror on my face and was screaming in agony was because I was so acutely aware of my sinfulness in the presence of a holy God that it just brought terror to me and I was crying out, “God for give me, God forgive me.” And I felt just the cleansing of God coming over my life, it was just like, it was just like being thrown under a waterfall and totally cleansed, not just outwardly but inwardly, and on the inside again I was

Sid: We don’t realize who far removed we are from where God created us to be, we don’t realize, I mean this is a word you don’t hear often, sinful, we don’t realize how sinful we are unless God puts a spotlight on us.

Gary: That’s exactly right. Well my heart of repentance was met with total forgiveness from the Father, and I was on the floor this time for two hours, I couldn’t get up, I couldn’t move. I was weeping, when I tried to get up I couldn’t walk out, a couple of the people had to help me, I ended up in the very back of the church on the pack row sitting there and Kathy was asking me you know, what happened, what happened, and I couldn’t even tell her because I wanted to process all of this and I said, “I’ll tell you later, I’m okay.” But I was shaking and vibrating so much in the chair I could hardly sit in the chair.

Sid: So they bring you up on the platform and what type of miracles were released when you were there?

Gary: Well I mean it was amazing,they had to carry me up on the platform in a chair; I couldn’t walk up there myself.

Kathy: He couldn’t talk.

Gary: I couldn’t talk, and I was with Randy Clark, and Randy, he came over to ask me what had been happening. I couldn’t speak, he had Kathy come up, Kathy told what I had told her and the place came unglued. It was like a tornado just swept through the place, people were falling, they were crying out, people were being sovereignly healed, there was such a strong manifest presence of God in the place.

Sid: Were many people healed?

Gary: All over the place, right after that, once I was finally able to talk, this was a little later on, people came up for prayer, I was able to stand up because only by the grace of God, and I began to pray for people, there was a long line, every person I prayed for was instantly healed, it was like there was a whole different dynamic.

Sid: Listen Gary and Kathy, there is a glory, that same glory is in this studio right now, did you hear what he just said, every single person he prayed for was healed.

On It’s Supernatural: Jesus demonstrated the supernatural gifts of God’s Spirit to His disciples. As they watched Him, they caught the anointing and began to do the miraculous. Learn how to walk under an open heaven.

Do angels exist? Are healing miracles real? Is there life after death? Can people get supernatural help from another dimension? Has the future been written in advance? Sid Roth has spent 25 years researching

the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid on this edition of It’s Supernatural.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here.

Welcome to my world, where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, David Tomberlin, hears specific names of people, and then they are healed. I love it. David, when you were 21, you were on top of the world. What was going on in your life?

DAVID: Sid, I had everything going for me, looking from the outside in. I was in college. I actually was a soccer player. I had professional teams talking to me about trying out in Europe and Latin America. I had a beautiful girlfriend who was actually a model. I had my own business; I owned my own house – 21 years old – owned a couple of cars. What I would say is, if I saw my life from somebody else’s position, I would’ve been jealous of me.

SID: Isn’t it like the movies though? You see on the big screen, but you don’t know what’s going on beyond the façade.

DAVID: Yeah. Externally, things were great. This was the confusing thing about the whole thing; I couldn’t point to something that was wrong. Everything was right, but inside I was really withering away.

I was under this horrible depression.

SID: There was no real reason for it.

DAVID: There’s nothing I could point to, no financial reason, no relational reason. I was a young man, had everything going for me, and I slipped into this horrible depression, so much so that I was suicidal. All I could do was cry out to God. I remember every night I would cry for hours and hours. And I’m originally from Texas. As a young man in Texas…

SID: Men don’t cry.

DAVID: We don’t cry. It’s against the rules. It’s against the handbook. But I’d never experienced this before, and I would weep and cry for hours. Actually, a couple of time’s I planned to kill myself, planned to commit suicide. I remember one night I was watching television, it happened to be a Christian TV program. I remember telling God “God, I don’t know how much longer I can hang on, but I commit in my heart not to kill myself.” That’s what I did. The other thing that accompanied this whole depression darkness was I had a choking sensation around my neck at all times. The only time that choking sensation would go away was when I walked in the church that I attended. Then when I came back out, it would come back on. So I started going to church a lot, obviously. I was like “Can I sleep here?”

SID: Really? The only relief you would get? But there was one particular service you went to. Tell me about that.

DAVID: It was in the spring, I want to say April, of 1995. I was sitting in this service, and the gentleman who was speaking was talking about what he called the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or being immersed in God’s Spirit. I had some friends who were of a different mindset, and they told me that this wasn’t real. That’s what they told me, and they were good people, and they loved God. But I was attending the service. I remember I had been so emptied out by this experience that I told God “I don’t know if this is real or not, but I need something from You.” So at the end of the service, the gentleman who was speaking invited people, “If you want to experience this immersion in God’s Spirit, then come up to the front.” So I immediately stood up and I began to walk towards the front, what they would call the alter area. As I was walking, I felt this unusual sensation. It was like I was walking upstream in a river, as though there were water coursing through my legs.

SID: If you didn’t know you were in a building without water, you would’ve thought you were walking through water?

DAVID: Right. I just didn’t have a paradigm of the supernatural at that time. I just go “This is very odd. I’m walking up a river.” I’m having this sensation of walking up a river, yet I’m in a church service. So I get to the front, and I close my eyes. I’ve always been the kind of person where I don’t like anything fake. I don’t like people that are not genuine. I’ve always had a dislike for that. I said “God, I’m not going to fake anything, but whatever You want to give me, please give me.” Well, the gentleman was praying for people all along the front. There were probably a couple hundred people there. I was just standing there, and they were playing music, and I would close my eyes and I’d see a golden light. Every time I closed my eyes, so much to the point that I opened my eyes and asked the gentleman “Was somebody just shining a flashlight in my eyes?” because that’s what it felt like.

SID: That’s real.

DAVID: He looked at me like “No, people don’t typically do that in church. They don’t shine flashlights in your eyes.” But that was the sensation. I closed my eyes there was a bright light. I was like, this is unusual. First the water, then the bright light. I just closed my eyes. The gentleman finally got to me and put his hands on my head. And again, in the back of my mind, I’m thinking of my friends who told me this is fake. When this comes, there’s also a supernatural language that he was talking about when this takes place. I said “Lord, again, I’m not faking this. I want whatever You have for me, God. I want what You have for me, but I will not fake an experience.” I was at a low point. Faking wouldn’t help me. I needed something real. All of a sudden, this guy puts his hands on my head, and this language begins to shoot out of my mouth, almost as though I’m not creating it. I’m not making it happen, I’m almost watching it. Then as soon as that language comes out of my head, in my mind I think this: “I wonder if I’m faking this?” All I did was think it. The guy who was praying for me yelled at me, in an angry way “You’re not faking this!” I go “Wow, I guess I’m not faking this.” The next thing I know, I’m on my back. I look over to my left; I see some lady’s high heel shoes. I was raised Anglican or Episcopal, and you don’t fall on the ground in church. It’s not proper. So I go what am I doing on the ground in church, number one? Number two, how did I get here? What happened was the power of God had so hit me that I had not been able to stand under that power.

SID: I tell you what, hold that thought, because you’re going to find out about three circular evil things that come out of him, and that depression lifts. And what he has in its place, the whole world should have. Don’t go away, we’ll be right back after this word.