Sid: Forget what we want God says “He wants you to be red hot for the Messiah.” I have a guest who is doing the works of Jesus and training people to do it. And he’s just come out with a book. The book is titled “When Heaven Invades Earth.” And the principals that he’s learned that has allowed him to walk in the supernatural are for you, and God wants you to walk in the supernatural. My guest Bill Johnson Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Under the Bethel Church is the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. On yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about the original commission of Adam and Eve which they lost. Which the Devil took over; which Jesus purchased back for us; and we understand all of this intellectually Bill but how do we get from the intellectual to the manifestation?
Bill: First of all we have to believe that it’s available, secondly if it is available then we have to learn how to pursue. Prayer is the obvious part, but prayer has to be very specific. Third we have to expose yourself to people that are doing it. It’s very important because the anointing of the grace that’s on individual’s life affect how we see reality and it affects how we live. And there’s a transference if you will of the anointing by just being with the right people.
Sid: Almost an Elijah, Elisha type?
Bill: Exactly, an illustration I really like is there’s at least four other giants killed in the Bible besides Goliath but they were all killed by the mighty men of David. So we tell people if you want to kill giants hang around somebody who kills them. If you want to be a giant killer just hang around people that have done it because it will rub off on you.
Sid: Now Bill, you say there are no more excuses for powerlessness. What do you mean by that?
Bill: The Holy Spirit is the greatest gift the person could ever, ever receive. He’s the actual power of heaven. He’s the resurrection power that brought Jesus up from the grave and He lives inside of me. It is… we are absolutely without excuse if we don’t live in power. We have been given the resource of heaven to represent Jesus. And that word “represent” means to re-pre-sent Him. What was He like? It is our obligation our indebtedness to the world is to re-pre-sent Jesus as He was. And that’s the assignment that we have in the great commission.
Sid: Now there were some secrets that the Jewish people had in the Old Covenant that really need to be recovered, explain.
Bill: You know I really believe you know we have a moment in history where we are… this might be too big of a subject for just today. But we have an opportunity to be architects of a revival culture. And part of that for us has been recovering the purpose of the testimony. Everybody likes testimonies because they are encouraging. But very few people realize there significance. I believe that God gave us the testimony in Israel’s history; Israel’s culture in New Testament revival culture. The testimony was given to us to preserve the revelation of God for Heresy and unbelief. The revelation of the nature of God; every testimony unveils the nature of God but also brings with it an invitation to come and know God in that same way. Let me illustrate it. We had a 3 year old boy healed of club feet and I was giving the testimony here in church one Sunday. It happened 3 hours away from here. And I was giving the testimony and I was telling them about the verse in Revelation that says “The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.” Biblical prophecy doesn’t just foretell it actually causes events to take place. And so that means a testimony, the spoken or written record of what God has done carries with it an anointing that causes things to happen. So as I gave the teaching on the testimony of Jesus being the Spirit of prophecy I mentioned about the boy with the club feet. There was a family from Montana and there was a little girl whose feet turned inward about45 degree angle. She heard the teaching on the testimony on the club feet and she said “I’ll take that for my daughter.” Her daughter was about 2 years old and was in our nursery; when the message was over the meeting was over she went to the nursery to get her little girl. And her little girl’s feet were turned in so severely that she would actually trip over them when she would run.
Bill: She picked up her little girl her little girl’s feet were already straight. No body prayed for her the power of the testimony. I was in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania last fall Randy Clark’s conference there and I gave those two stories. And there was a man in the room that had a deformity in his hip that caused his leg to aim outside towards his foot. It actually went outward toward the side. When I gave the message and I gave those two testimonies I had everyone stand at the end for us to pray. And when he stood his hip turned and his leg turned and faced completely forward and was completely healed and nobody prayed for him, it was the power of the testimony. Israel had a responsibility in Deuteronomy 6 not to just keep the commandments of the Lord but they were commanded to keep the testimony. And we know how to keep a commandment because it means obedience. But what is it to keep a testimony? I believe it means to keep the remembrance the record of the miraculous invasions of God in their life. To keep them so close to our heart that they affect number 1how I view reality, and number 2 how I’m going to live.
Sid: Bill you talk about so many nuggets in your book that break us out of… and let’s face it we’re in an intellectual society, therefore we take a totally intellectual approach towards the scriptures. And the Holy Spirit, the life just is almost separated from the two.
Sid: How do we put the two back together?
Bill: We got to humble our self. Our intellect has been in charge of our Christianity and Biblically that’s called carnal Christianity. Whenever the soul is in charge, whenever the soul governs over the spirit of a man then that’s carnal Christianity and we have to realize. See we don’t understand we don’t have faith because we understand something. We understand something because we have faith. Faith, biblical faith; true faith is superior to the intellect and for most Christians intellect is in charge when the intellect needs to be the student not the leader; the student not the teacher; the follower not the leader. The intellect is wonderful thing; God is not intimidated by our intelligence at all. And our mind is supposed to be that canvas that He paints His creative expression on. But when the mind is in charge then we reduce God to our size.
Sid: You talk in your book about praying the power of God out of heaven. Is it almost like there’s a canopy over us and somehow our prayer has to break through that canopy to get the answers?
Bill: Yeah, I don’t know how it all works all I know is Jesus made the announcement He said “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” It’s within reach but he also said the violent take it by force.” There’s a lot of unique expressions that He gave that gives us understanding how to apprehend what is made available. John Lake was real good at that. He talked about things that we desire that only exist in heaven. “We’ll have to go there to get it,” of course what he’s talking about is prayer. The great outpouring of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 happened after 120 people invaded heaven so to speak for 10 days. They had been praying and crying out to God and then God broke through in their world. And we just have to know how to put ourselves really on the line, on the stretch so to speak, as we cry out to the Lord in real reckless abandonment.
Sid: And what about the people that understand what you’re saying and stood on the promises of God’s word and are not elderly people and middle-age, and they die of a dread disease like cancer? What do you say to their family? What do you say to the person that says “I couldn’t have as much faith as so and so had and so what hope is there for me?”
Bill: You know I don’t ever want to you know when I’m praying with people before, while they are sick or afterwards I never point to their lack of faith as the reason. I don’t ever want to put it on them because I’m the one doing the praying. The Bible says “The prayer of faith will heal the sick so it’s my praying not there’s. You know what I won’t do is I won’t make up excuses for why a person died and didn’t get healed. What I won’t do is pray the bad theology to explain away my weakness. If I make excuses for lack of breakthrough I will always have lack of breakthrough. I have to return to the Biblical standard. Jesus healed everyone who was brought to Him. Not everyone that’s brought to me gets healed; not everyone brought to the disciples got healed. But everyone brought to Jesus. All I know to do is I have to try to raise my standard of life up to the standard of scripture. And not lower the Bible to my level of experience. What happens to many many Christians is that they experience disappointment. And the Bible says “Hope deferred makes the heart sick.” In the moment of disappointment and loss we’re in a very vulnerable place spiritually. Many still believe in healing but just don’t believe that it’s for everyone. Or they just don’t believe they have the anointing for it so they somebody comes that wants prayer so they send them to somebody else. And we just have to deal with those issues. And we do it by getting before the Lord until He brings healing to the wound in our own heart. Understanding will follow if we require understand before we are willing to obey then we cripple our self. But you know we have to live with the fact that we have not arrived yet and I see a lot of people healed; I see a lot of people not healed. A lot of people roll away in wheelchairs after I pray for them that didn’t get healed. I can either make up a doctrine “Oh this is why it happened.” I can blame them, or I can use that as fuel to cry out to God all the more to have a greater breakthrough in my life. And it’s that third one that I’ve chosen to do.
Sid: Your listening to Pastor Bill Johnson and he has a book on healing that I tell you will move you so close to God and give you insight that is necessary titled “When Heaven Invades Earth. Randy Clark who you mentioned had this to say “I wish I’d met Pastor Bill Johnson earlier in my life. I feel I would be further along in the road to moving in the power of the Kingdom of God than I presently am at this time. And he sees tons of miracles.”