Sid: My guest Bruce Malone is a scientist; he’s a Chemical Engineer.  He’s worked at Dow Chemical.  What did you do at Dow Chemical Bruce?

Bruce: Well, I developed new products; my expertise has always been Research and Development.  And I worked at Dow for almost 30 years.

Sid: Okay, you were raised in a mainline church; God was irrelevant to you.  You got to college; whatever faith you had they knocked it out of you.  Why did you call yourself an agnostic?

Bruce: Well, God was just irrelevant; by the time I got through college I had been told 100’s of times that everything could be explained without God.  So there really didn’t seem to me any point going to church or donating towards churches when you could explain everything without Him.

Sid: No, no that’s not my question; my question is why did you just call yourself an atheist?

Bruce: Because as a scientist I like to think I have an open mind and even though I thought things could be explained without God it had never been proven to me that God didn’t exist either. So I thought that I had an open mind either way; He was just pretty much irrelevant.

Sid: Okay, so you married; you have your first son and then you develop a virus and you’re dying but what I understand is an amazing miracle happened.

Bruce:  Well, I think God who is real was trying to get my attention and He had to take me to the point of death for that to happen.  And that’s exactly right; I had double pneumonia; doctors could do nothing I was on 100% oxygen; I was still hallucinating and the doctors told my wife they should be prepared for me to die.  I continued to deteriorate day after day, and yet suddenly I just immediately started to get better.  There were many people praying for me and I wasn’t even aware of it at the time.  But the doctors had no explanation; the drugs had changed and suddenly I got better.

Sid: So 6 months later what were the circumstances that you decided to go from agnostic to believer?

Bruce:  Well, I started looking for a deeper meaning in life as many people that face life do; I mean is life just about collecting money and possessions and then you die and return to dust; and many friends were kind of pointing me in the direction that God was real.  And even more specifically that God had an entered into creation as Jesus Christ in order to make that bridge between sinful man back into His holy presence. And all of that made sense; everything Jesus said made sense; the miracles made sense; the turning around of the lives of His disciples made sense.

Sid: Well wait wait wait as a scientist how could that all make sense to you?

Bruce: Well, I’ll tell you what at the same time I started to look at the complexity to the creative world; the biological world and the universe.  And what I had been taught in school was not starting to really explain the order and the complexity of the creation.  So I started looking for a deeper meaning and that led me to what the Bible had to say about where everything came from.

Sid: But something really put it all together for you when coming to your church is someone giving a message on creationism.

Bruce:  Well, that’s exactly right and honestly remember now I have started to realize that Jesus is who He claimed to be the creator but I am still very much in a scientific mindset.  And the speaker came and amongst other things he started to show how the complexity of biology couldn’t have made itself.  But he also started to show the evidence that the rock layers of this planet had to be laid down rapidly, and we can talk further about that later.  But I realized that if there really had been this worldwide flood that the Bible had talked about as a real event of history, then that wiped out everything that I’d ever been taught about world history; about the age of things; about where biological life had come from because those rock layers would have been laid down rapidly.  It shook up my entire world view.

Sid: Now you started praying for wisdom on your job as a researcher for Dow Chemical in addition to being the top 100 inventors of the year award. You have designed ideas for over 18 patents that made the company millions of dollars.

Bruce: Well, let me back up an just tell you how all that came about; after becoming a Christian; after giving my life to the Lord I went before Him as a young Engineer with my company.  I’d only been with Dow for about 3 years, and I asked the Lord to give me some ideas that would make the company more successful, not necessarily for myself, but just because I had a job and I wanted to be a blessing to God in that area.  Within a week I had an idea of developing a new foam product that turned out to be a very high energy absorbent foam.  And one of the product spinoffs of this was an energy absorbing headliner that was used in automobiles.  The other inventions including a vacuum insulation foam used for organ transplant boxes and refrigeration walls.  And new types of wood plastic composite decking materials; all very practical inventions and what this did was confidence and incredibility as I than went out into the public to talk about the credibility of God’s word and the reliability of its model for creation and where everything came from.

Sid:  Now you ran into a bit of a crisis afterwards and you decided “Well, I read about Gideon I’m going to try a fleece; should I stay in this area; should I relocate?”  Tell me about the fleece.

Bruce: Well, let me just share that and this will take more than just 30 seconds.  You know there’s too many Christians or people who acknowledge the Lord’s existence that don’t really understand that God really does interact with our personal lives.  He really does care on a day to day basis what we’re doing on a personal day to day basis what we’re all about.  My company had decided to shutdown it’s research center; I had been in Grandville, Ohio for 17 years.  My roots had grown deep; I loved this area; we had been good stewards, we paid off our home; it was my desire just to stay in Grandville the rest of my life.  But when they shut down the research center the company offered to pay to move everybody to Midland, Michigan. I did not want to do this but most of all I wanted to do what God wanted me to do.  So I prayed fervently over it, and one day I was praying and I read this passage where Jesus says “He who leaves family, friends and home in this world they’ll be blessed in the next.”  And it just jumped off the page at me “Leave your home.”  And then through circumstances I applied for jobs that I should have been a shew in in the local area.  And lastly I kinda laid out a fleece and I said “Lord if you really want me to move I would love to have a very definite sign.”  What I would like is I go out and pray in the area around our Research Center; if you could bring a deer out right in front of me which was just doesn’t happen; normally deer would run off whenever you get near them I will know that I should be moving and not staying here, So I did just that I went out and I prayed and I walked through the fields and nothing happened.  I thought I think I know what God wants but I’m just not sure.  As I turned to walk back toward our building not 20 feet away a deer stood up in the grass and stared directly at me for about 5 to 10 seconds and then it bounded off into the grass.  And right before that happened I just sensed God’s presence and He told me, ”I have already told you what I want you to do”, in other words to move. “I have a purpose for you in Midland, Michigan.”  And it was was after that the deer stood up and it was like God saying “Even though I have ways of giving you My purpose and My guidance I love you enough I want you to know absolute for sure.”  And here was this deer that stood up and looked at me; God is still doing miracles today.

Sid: And Bruce you believe as I do that there is overwhelming evidence that evolution is not based on science.  Now as a scientist you started buying space in the local newspaper and running articles about the evidence that you have and you bumped into a real firestorm of criticism.

Bruce:  Oh you’re not a kidding. Sid you cannot present Biblical truth in our country in this day and age without it being strongly opposed.  And the more important the issue is the more the opposition becomes. The…

Sid: You also speak at universities; what goes on when you speak at universities on this subject?

Bruce: The same thing, you see even more than when I was growing up the children are being sent through our educational system showing only one viewpoint.  It’s almost as if you are trying to determine the truth of something is and the prosecution presents their entire case and then the judge says “Okay you’ve heard enough to and make your decision without ever having a chance to have heard the other viewpoint.”  That’s what’s happening in our school system.  The kids, the students, even the teachers are only hearing a natural process made everything viewpoint.  They never get to hear the evidence for a Designer behind it all.

Sid: Is it true it’s actually against the law to bring up creationism in schools?

Bruce:  The Supreme Court has repeatedly supported the idea because of a distortion of one of Thomas Jefferson’s letters where he mentioned the separation of church and state that no public school system can promote or even cast doubt on the idea of evolution.

Sid: Listen, we are in the last of the last of the last days as Bruce is going to show you from scripture a little later on in the week what was prophesied.  But want to rescue this generation of young people and even older people.

 

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Leif Hetland who was born in Norway, and he is currently Mission’s Pastor of Faith Tabernacle in Florence, Alabama and President of Global Mission Awareness.  And I’ll tell you something Mishpochah; if you can catch the essence of what is being taught this week it will revolutionize your life, your family, your city, your country.  It is so important; Leif for those that are just tuning in for the first time you; were a successful pastor but burned out and you came into an encounter which you call a Baptism of Love.  Explain that to me.

Leif:  Well, first of all it’s difficult to give a total Bible definition except for the closest I find is Roman’s 5:5.  It just talks about it because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us. What happened, and what we’re seeing in practicality is I do believe and it is part of the restoration of all things that we are seeing very clearly that Jesus is going to be seated in Heaven until the restoration of all things.  And part of that restoration is that the Father is going to turn His hearts towards the children and the children’s hearts towards the fathers.  It is very very clear and every single time when a truth comes like this there’s always somebody who would have a problem with it and struggle with it but somehow it seems like somebody like Jack Frost preached this for 30 years around the world and nobody had heard of it.  And now later on had this Baptism of Love and experience like myself; and now everywhere I mean I have to say no to 184 invitation and 3 openings left this year.  But people are standing in line to be able to experience this Baptism of Love; the families are crying for them; the churches are crying from it.  The cities are crying from it and everybody is looking for it and it is pretty much when your emotion, will, mind and personality is immersed in the Father’s love going back into the baby in the mother’s womb to the child, to the teenager where the Father is visiting all those different things and anything in your life that is not comfortable with love is not comfortable with God because God is love.

Sid: Now give me an example of something where one might not be comfortable with love in their life; give me an example.

Leif:  Well, I think that one element that is intimacy is as an example; into-me-see, seeing into me. So people well put down walls; we put down as I was saying so we have to become a pastor of church so and so or I’m a businessman.  My identity many times when we are not comfortable with love is in what we are doing instead of who we are that we are lovers.  We are sons and daughters of the King of kings and the Lord of lords and our identity is in being a lover; receiving love and giving love.  That’s His command and that should be our first priority. But I do believe just as I’m saying that the performance is another area we are trying to perform for love; trying to achieve it but it’s a gift that’s already been received.  But any area in your life that’s not comfortable with love and it’s just one big black man in Southern Alabama and I’m Norwegian of course and I don’t understand always to do it the wisest way.  I was going to give an illustration of the question and one of the things I did was I run and I jump in the lap of the biggest person on the front row.  I said I questioned the spiritual maturity is not what you know but how comfortable are you with love.  And as I jumped in his lap I thought he was going to throw me across the room.

Sid: (Laughing)

Leif:  And what was taking place here was “This guy definitely did have some love deficits I was thinking.”  But all I’m saying is if people are saying they don’t have any love deficits they don’t have any God deficits.  So I would encourage anyone who don’t have any love deficits for people to walk in your shadow and see if they’re having something different with their bodies.  Because if everything in your life is just God because God is love then I think that also there should be some different fruits. The fruit of the Spirit is first of all love and God is love and all of these other characteristics will flow out of that.  So I think that we can see so many different counterfeit affection in people’s life because of love deficits and they have not had a Baptism with Love like it happened with Jack Frost and myself.  For some people that we meet we’re seeing that in our meetings there’s a radical one and it’s like the Baptism of the Spirit. For other Baptists but some people they feel something right then and then later on as I’m saying there’s a major place that’s taking place but I’ll have people just quietly.  I’ll get letter all the time like the President of the American Christian Psychiatrists and Dental Association shared how I prayed for him.  And the difference it had to do as he viewed his patients; his wife problems.  Suddenly now the problem became a promise, so it was just a quiet thing.  So God does almost a surgery and He takes out some of our hurts, our wounds and rejection and pain and love deficit.  Then He puts in His heart a heart that we can beat with His heartbeat and we get comfortable knowing that He’s our Daddy, He’s our Abba.

Sid:  Leif let me ask you a question; on the CD’s that we’re offering on “Your Father Loves You Series.”  You pray for the people but you also have the most beautiful music and affirmations of God’s love.  I have to believe that’s a very critical part of your teaching!

Leif:   Definitely, first of all it has to be a revelation we have the information.  There’s never been a difference in my life in regard to my information that God loves me; but I didn’t feel it; I didn’t experience it.  So the revelation led to transformation, and then there was an impartation.  You teach what you know but you reproduce what you are; and the reason out of my life it can flow is because people cannot separate between what I speak and what I am. And then there’s an activation that takes place; so often there’s a thing of a combination of soaking.  The music of just learning; because we are such an achieving society.  And that’s why I want some of those tools that we are talking about today for people just to rest and receive.  It is the key element to everything in the Kingdom is to rest and I’m not talking about laziness but about finding a place where you’re just resting and receiving.  And just let God do the work; and He’s very good at it.

Sid: But we’re in a culture where everything has to happen fast and we want everything to happen just by snapping our fingers.  Or having someone, and I have to be candid with you, lay their hands on us and instantly have 30, 40 or 50 years changed.

Leif:  Yeah.

Sid: And I guess it does happen once in a zillion but that’s the exception and not the norm.

Leif:   And I can be honest with you from my life it took at least 3 months before people around me without me saying it; they started to see the difference; that’s without me saying it to people.  I didn’t go and testify right away about the miraculous experience but people could see the difference.  And what I did on a daily basis and that I started and I listened every single day; maybe for… I don’t listen every day now but most of the time I do just the report card of what the Father says about me in regard to His love for me.  That I am righteous; I am what He says about me, “You are my believed son in whom I love; whom I am well pleased even while you were in your mother’s womb.”  I listen to these words that the Father speaks to me with music and I’m just soaking in it.  And before I make a major decision, before I go on a program like I’m talking to you right now I need to make sure that I’m motivated out of love because then I’m motivated out of God because deception is very deceiving.

Sid: You know the heart of what you’re teaching is the question that Jesus asked.  “What’s the most important commandment and He quoted Deuteronomy 6:4.  “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul and all your strength; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”  Teach a little bit on this; why did Jesus say this was so important; why did He say that all of the law is fulfilled in this?

Leif:  Well, I think that there is a clear answer for it and that is if you are loving God, but first of all it is impossible to love God and I know another scripture says that you know how much you have been loved.  So there’s first a revelation of receiving love; then you can give love.  But if you have not received the love of God you cannot love yourself; and then you cannot love your neighbor.  So that’s why I believe that it’s so important to have an impartation; and a 9 out of 10 example because of the father image.  Meaning a distant father and abusive authoritative; absentee and maybe even a good father but still not a father that reflect the father heart of God. If you’ve not had an encounter with Father God; that’s what Jesus focused on was all of what Father was doing.  So what He wanted as the greatest commandment and if you love God and if you love people everything else will be added to that.  You can put all of the laws in there; it’s like I’m telling my son. And this is very dangerous and I hope that all of the audience that are listening can pray for me.  But I’m trying to tell my son; when he asks me different rules and regulations when he asked me; he’s 15 years old and he’s at that age.  I think that as long as you honor me and you honor God with what you do you can come home whenever you want to; you can listen to whatever you want to as long as you honor God and you honor me.  And it is the same way with the Father.  If it is motivated out of love then it is motivated out of God and out of that it will flow into other people.  And that will affect other people and you do not need any rules and regulation; you need relationship.  And out of relationship because of the love I have for my wife it is easy to say, “No.”  And I get a lot of temptation when you travel 184 days a year; but I’m told pastors, and I teach 5000 pastors a year.  I say “It’s easy to say “No, if you have a big enough yes.”  And that’s what this Father love is all about.  It’s when I’m hearing that I’m His beloved son, then I can be led into the wilderness and the desert and I can be tested in every way and no matter what the devil comes up with I just know that I’m just His beloved boy and He loves me and He’s well pleased with me and He’s the creator of the Universe and this is my Daddy.  And He’s well pleased and I have straight “A” and it’s easy to say no to anything the world has to offer if you have a big enough yes!

Sid: You know Mishpochah you’ve listening to Leif Hetland and he has a revelation of Father God.

SID: 2008, you’re in my favorite city in the world, Jerusalem, at the Western Wall, and God speaks to you. What did He tell you?

ERICK: Well Sid, my favorite city in the world as well, and my first time ever in Israel. I set foot in Jerusalem, a lifelong dream. I’m looking at the Western Wall. God has never spoken to me audibly yet, but He’s spoken to my heart, and that day He spoke to my heart in a powerful way. And He said three words, Sid, clearly: “Help my people.” And there was not a doubt in my mind he meant the Jewish people, not only in Israel, but around the world. And all of a sudden, Sid, my whole life began to make sense. Why am I in this field of counter-terrorism, anti-jihad? Why am I doing this, why in my whole life do I have Jewish friends, coaches, mentors in my life? Why this lifelong passion for Israel, when my father was a Christian Zionist who taught me to love Israel and the land of Israel, why? Finally, it all made sense to me as I was in Jerusalem and God spoke to my heart in a powerful way.

SID: Okay. What will trigger the next war in the Middle East?

ERICK: Three potential triggers, Sid, and here they are. Number one, the ongoing chaos in Egypt, which our good friends the Muslim Brotherhood are in the middle of. That chaos in Egypt could spill over Egypt’s borders, pull in Israel. Then we have Syria, Israel’s other neighbor, a hundred thousand people at this point, Sid, killed in that civil war in Syria, that could spill over, pull Israel and Syria’s neighbors in. The third and most likely trigger, Sid, beyond Egypt, beyond Syria and probably the most likely, Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Iran is very, very close to acquiring a nuclear bomb.

SID: Okay. Israel doesn’t want this for obvious reasons.

ERICK: Yes.

SID: Why is the U.S. dragging their feet?

ERICK: They believe, Sid, that we can negotiate with the Iranians. We can talk to these guys. They’re diplomatic. We can talk them down from the nuclear ledge, Sid, and talk some reason with the Iranians.

SID: Why is that impossible, in your opinion?

ERICK: Their ideology, Sid. You can’t discuss Iran without discussing their ideology. What is that ideology? It’s an ideology of martyrdom, of ushering in the End Times, the return of the Islamic Messiah. Sid, I’ll give you a great example. This might shock everyone at home. During the 1980s, the Iran-Iraq war, a million people killed. The Iranian mullahs, the same guys in charge of that country now, sent thousands of young Iranian boys, as young as 10 years old, to clear mind fields. They put plastic keys around their necks, Sid, and told them, “These are the keys to paradise. If you just clear that mind field, kill yourself, tonight you’ll be in paradise with Allah.” I’m sorry, Sid, I don’t think you can negotiate with people who put such a low value on a human life as this Iranian regime does.

SID: So what is their plan with these nuclear bombs, that they’re just literally months away from having developed?

ERICK: Sid, their plan, number one, is to wipe Israel off the map. But American viewers especially need to understand, in the Iranian ideology, Israel is only the little Satan. It’s America that is the great Satan and the ultimate prize. America has a bulls eye on its back, Sid. Once Iran is done with Israel, and I’ve read the Bible, so I know that’s not going to happen. But if Iran were to succeed in its plans to wipe Israel off the map, they wouldn’t just pack up their bags and go, Sid. They’d come for America, they’d come for us, people need to understand that Israel is the first line of defense for Western civilization. Really they’re the canary in the coal mind in this fight against radical Islam.

SID: Okay. Does Iran have this new EMP technology?

ERICK: This is a scary thing that they have tested, Sid. EMP stands for electromagnetic pulse. And what that is, it sounds almost like a science fiction movie. But what they would do is fire a nuclear missile into the atmosphere above the United States. The missile detonates above a city, say, New York City, Washington, D.C., and it fries everything below, Sid. The electrical grid is fried. Your car won’t run. Your cell phone won’t work. We’re back in the 1800s. Iran has tested this technology. Russia, China, North Korea, all working with it. And our government on Capitol Hill, Sid, there has not been the will to harden our electrical grid to guard against this kind of attack.

SID: How does oil play into all this?

ERICK: Well at the end of the day, as we know, the Muslim world controls a good amount of the world’s oil supply. And the scary thing is, I’ll give you two examples, Sid. Number one, the Suez Canal in Egypt, now a good amount of the world’s oil passes through the Middle East every day on its way to America and Europe. So if that Suez Canal were shut down by terrorists, that affects the whole global economy. Everyone watching this show right now would feel it in their pocketbook, feel it every time they go to the oil and gas pump. Oil and gas prices would skyrocket. The global economy would take a major hit if that Suez Canal is shut down. And the other thing to keep in mind with OPEC, mainly Muslim nations, if this Islamic, I call it, I don’t just call it, history calls it a caliphate, Islamic caliphate, a United Muslim States, every Muslim nation united militarily, politically, economically controlling a good supply of the world’s oil. That is the goal, this caliphate, for the Brotherhood, for Iran, whether they’re Shia, Sunni, Al-Qaeda, this is what they want. And if they join forces, Sid, they will control a good chunk of the world’s oil supply. That’s very bad for us here in the West.

SID: You know, we’re hearing all of these things. As far as I’m concerned, Israel and America are in the same boat, and it’s not an accident. Jews and Christians are in the same boat, and it’s not an accident. I see this as God’s greatest moment. And I’m going to give you a supernatural solution for yourself, for your family, for your city. It’s Psalm 122, Verse 6, which says, “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.” The word “peace” in Hebrew, shalom, can mean “completeness”. What is the completeness of Jerusalem? Jew and Gentile. One in Jesus, one in Yeshua, one in Messiah. But it goes on. It says, “Pray for the completeness of Jerusalem. They shall prosper that love them.” In the Hebrew, the word “prosper” means more than money can buy. It means “heart peace”. God promises to you that if you will pray for the completeness and safety of Jerusalem, God will give you heart peace. I’m not worried about Israel. I’m very concerned about the United States and the rest of the world, because God says, “I will bless those who bless the Jewish people” and if you’re blessing the Jewish people, a thousand can fall at your left hand, 10,000 at your right hand. But the Word of God says, it will not come near you. “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Thou shall prosper. Thou shall have heart peace that love thee.”

SID: Okay. Now the earth according to many scientists is billions of years old. We have scientific inventions that help us date how old the earth is. What do you say about the book called the Bible that says the earth is a little over 6000 years old?

BRUCE: Well, what you’re not hearing about, Sid, is that the vast majority of dating methods indicate a very recent creation. But to explain life without God you’ve got to have enormous periods of time. So they only pick the methods that seem to indicate, well maybe there has been a lot of time. Let me just explain one, radio-carbon dating. Everybody has heard about that. And I’ll show you why it really supports a recent creation. All of our bodies are made of carbon. A certain amount disappears every so often. So as soon as you die it starts disappearing. Say the carbon in your body is represented by this sheet of paper. After so many years, half of it disappears. After so many more years another half disappears. So many more years, half disappears and then half more disappears, and a half more disappears. We can measure how fast that happens today. You see what’s happening? You get less and less, and les,s until eventually you don’t even have a single molecule of the paper left. So scientists measure how much something has died, they dig it up out of the ground, they measure how much radio-carbon is left and they calculate, well then it must have been alive thousands of years ago because there’s hardly any left. This is what you’re not told. This is what students aren’t told. We can dig up dinosaur bones or coal that was supposedly buried hundreds of millions of years ago. There shouldn’t be a single atom of radio-carbon left. Just like you can’t keep dividing the paper over and over again. And yet, we find like this much radio-carbon left in those things. It says those dinosaur bones, those coal seams couldn’t possibly be as old as we’re told because there’s enormous amounts of this radio-carbon left in them.

SID: So could it be what the Bible says, a little over 6000 years old?

BRUCE: See, that’s what I explain to people when I go out and I teach in churches and in schools, the vast majority of the evidence indicates those things are very young exactly as the Bible indicates.

SID: Okay. Another subject. Is there any proof that a creature has turned into another creature or the whole evolutionary cycle?

BRUCE: There is absolutely no proof for that. What you get is variations within a kind of creature. It’s like, you look at all the different kind of dogs we have. We have Chihuahuas and we have Great Danes. But they all came from the information God put within the first wolf type creature. And then you get lots of variation. But a dog has never turned into a cow, and it’s never been shown how it could happen. Now what evolutionists will do is line things up as you see in museums and in textbooks.

SID: Speaking of lining things up, the American Museum of Natural History has an exhibition of horses. Tell me about that, how it lines things up.

BRUCE: It’s a classic example. You see it in the textbooks and the museums. They’ll line up creatures that have three toes and then creatures that have two toes, and the creatures that have a single hoof, it would be a small creature and then a medium size creature, and then a big creature, you see that proves the horse evolved from a different creature. Once again, remember you’re not being told the whole story. We have since then, [after it] became very popularly shown, all those creatures have been found in the same layer of rocks. So how could one turn into another?

SID: But wait. Now you’re talking science to me. You’re talking scientific fact. That blows that exhibit out of the water.

BRUCE: Blows it out of the water.

SID: Why is it still there?

BRUCE: Because you’ve got to try to pretend that it happened so they’ll leave it there.

SID: Why do you have to pretend?

BRUCE: Because the only alternative is that God made horses. One moment there wasn’t a horse, the next moment there was. We have lots of variety. Some of these horses have since gone extinct. But they were simply horses with lots of variety, just like we have dogs with lots of variety.

SID: All right. But what about we hear from time to time —these missing links, these half, these apes that really look like they’re almost human?

BRUCE: It’s storytelling, Sid.

SID: How come they find bones? They find bones.

BRUCE: I could find a tricycle and a bicycle, and a motorcycle, and a car buried in the ground, and I can line them up and say, see, that proves that that tricycle turned into that automobile all by itself. That’s the same thing with the bones. That’s how you can think about them. It’s a story to try to explain things as if God hasn’t done it. It’s just bones that are lined up. Doesn’t mean one is turned into another.

SID: As a scientist, I want you to help me. Now this is what doesn’t make sense to me. They say, you know, a monkey became an ape, became a human. This is taught as science. So therefore, if that is true, why aren’t there some half-apes and half-men walking around?

BRUCE: Because half of something doesn’t work. A half of a feather can’t fly. You can’t have a reptile scale fraying and turning into a feather and have both animals be useful in some way. It just wouldn’t work.

SID: Tell me about the bees and the pollination of flowers.

BRUCE: Well remember, if you’re not going to believe God created different kind of creatures, you got to believe that something turned into something else, that turned into something else, and something else. So they’ll line them up like the tricycle of a car, except they do it with bones. They find flowers and plants in different rock layers, and they give them certain ages. They pick a dating method that supports their belief system. They believe flowering plants developed about a hundred million years ago. It’s a fictitious time. It isn’t true. But they find other animals like bees that didn’t appear until 20, 30 million years later. How could have plants been pollinated and surviving for 30 million years when there’s nothing around to pollenate them? It doesn’t make sense. It’s one of the many problems with evolution that’s just not shown as students.

SID: I don’t know why, but I have to tell you, your story about the frogs in Africa blow me out of the water.

BRUCE: Well there’s just, God created things to wake us up, so we know He did it. There’s a certain kind of frog, and it’s actually in South America, where it lays its eggs and then it swallows the eggs. So then it shuts down its stomach acid. The frog goes—

SID: How do you stop your stomach acid?

BRUCE: Good question. How do you do that? Evolution cannot explain this. How could a creature learn to do this? Then the frog goes through its whole development where it loses its tail. It becomes a tadpole, grows arms and legs, turns into little baby frogs. About six weeks later, the mother opens its mouth and fully-grown little frogs crawl out of its stomach. It turned its stomach into a nursery to nurture its young and protect them.

SID: This begs the question, how does a frog know not to eat the babies as they’re coming out?

BRUCE: See, creation is not non-scientific. It means the frog was made with those abilities. It was given those instincts so that we would be astounded at the creativity of God. And that’s the purpose. All the variety of life is so that we would be drawn to the maker who made it all. And yet, we pretend it all made itself.

SID: But why didn’t you see this as a scientist that said God was irrelevant? Why didn’t you see these things?

BRUCE: Because if you take young children, and from when they’re small children, watching shows about dinosaurs that pour into them this idea of billions of years have always been around, and then line up things and pretend that it all made itself, and it’s all they ever hear, we become blinded to any other possibility. That’s what’s so dangerous about our American education. It’s become indoctrination.

SID: Okay. How about the Grand Canyon. I know that took millions of years to develop. I want to see his answer when we come back.

Sid: I took a team with me to Israel last month, of course I’m doing this interview… a month ago I literally had just gotten off a plane to Israel. I was there for the Feast of Tabernacles, Sukkot, that’s where everyone lives in little tents. We had a tent at a New Age festival and a stage, thousands of unsaved Jews all over the place. The most debauchery, the most horrible New Age, and witchcraft, and Kabbalah, and Satanism I have ever seen, and it’s a good thing I had this team with me, and it’s a good thing I had people praying for me there because I have never seen such an orchestrated focus of prayer against me. When I was speaking, I spoke several times, but we were talking yesterday. I have Pastor Salina Covington on the phone from her church it’s called “The Place Where the Lord Provides” in Youngstown, Ohio. I had a whole team of people with me. When I was preaching they were so focused against destroying me. I mean I had an Orthodox rabbi who was a kabbalist, that’s New Age Judaism doing his chants against me. I had a number of witches there; I had literally worshippers of the devil there; all of them focusing trying to destroy. I had an unsaved Jewish guy from I believe it was Los Angeles screaming at me the whole time, in fact, they were afraid he was going to charge me. In spite of all of this, Jewish people got saved. You know what was so neat Salina, I have to tell you one of my most favorite things that happened on this trip. Is he is screaming at me and challenging me while I’m speaking, I’ll tell you what it’s not your father’s church it really isn’t. While all this is going on another man walks up to me and I’m saying “Oi vey, what’s going on here? We’ve got bedlam, we have all these witchdoctors, and kabbalists, and Satanists, and witches all of them focusing everything every power they have against me.” This guy from California is going slightly berserk screaming at me, and now this other man is walking up towards me. So I’m saying “Okay what do you want?” He said “I just got healed I want to tell everyone about it.” So I say to the guy that’s screaming at me from California “Could you be still for a moment we just had a miracle. The God who answers by fire…” because I was preaching from Elijah on Mount Carmel where he took on all the prophets of Baal, and he said “The real God answers by fire.” I said “The God who answers by” boy I’m gonna go in my preaching mode in a second Salina. “The God who answers by fire has just answered please be still.” So this guy gets… Timing? Was God’s timing perfect Salina?

Salina: He did damage I’m telling you to the kingdom of darkness.  We did damage.

Sid: Okay, but I have to describe something. I mean if you would have walked through these fairgrounds and seen the perversity, and the… it’s awful, I mean you can’t even put it in words how awful this was. I mean I have never seen such debauchery in my life. In the center of grounds there was a big pit, and they had a bunch of these kettle drums and they were beating Boom! Boom! Boom! Then there were dancers there were 2 that dressed like monkeys, and dancers dancing around. They reminded me of the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel when Elijah took them on. So they’re dancing around for all they’re worth they’re working the crowd into a frenzy then this African American female non-Jewish pastor from Ohio wonders on the scene and what happened?

Salina: There I am in the middle of it, and the drums going and that kid began to look at me. So I just started clapping …

Sid: Oh by the way, I forgot to mention there’s a big kettle and it’s boiling and they’re putting like witches stuff in it. Around the crowd you could see people they look very ferocious and they’re like conducting what’s going on in the spirit world, they’re sort of pulling all the strings, okay go ahead.

Salina: Yeah it’s sort of like a mock sacrifice

Sid: Yes.

Salina: situation that’s going on. The crowd is getting thicker and thicker, and so I just started to clap my hands and sing “Jesus is alright, He’s alright, Jesus is alright, He’s alright.” So they started singing with me and there I am I’m clapping my hands and many of them start singing. Pretty soon I looked they waved me they wanted me to come in a circle. Well I looked back for the young brother that was with me from the team, and I said “Go see if Sid says it’s okay if I can go up in there?” He left and never came back and so I said “No I’m not going in.” So there I kept interacting with the people there, the young people that were there. Pretty soon here comes these 4 like priests come slithering around the outside of the circle you know and slithering up to me like a snake. Well before I left America I prayed I said “God do you really want me to go you know I’ve heard stories I don’t know how safe Israel is. Am I supposed to be there?” The Lord brought me back to the part of scripture where Moses had to go before Pharaoh and he told him to throw down his rod and the rod became a snake. Then Pharaoh’s magicians threw down their rods and it became snake, but Moses’ snake ate up the Pharaoh’s magicians snake. So the Lord said to me “Your snake will eat up their snake.” I said “Okay that means I can go.” I said “Oh but I think it’s going to be rough.” I had no idea it was going to be the way it was. So here are these 4 Satanists coming towards me, and they’re slithering in tune in step, and they look this snake coming with their faces all painted half white, their eyes were all glassy like they had just done drugs or whatever. They looked at me, all of them looked at me, but last one the young man he looked at me and I knew he was trying to pull me in with his eyes and cast some kind of spell on me. I looked at him and I said out loud “Don’t try it my snake will eat up your snake!” When I said that he turned his head real quick and grabbed that woman’s shoulder in front of him and put his head down and they just slithered off. Well I walked behind them singing “Jesus is Just Alright” and I was like spiritually erasing their footprints. While all this was going on and I’m clapping my hands well when I got to the opening I just walked out of that circle and when I walked out I turned around and I motioned come and some of the young people came, and I talked to them and led them to the Lord. It was just glorious, and I’m walking away and here comes this young lady she was all dressed in black, she had spider webs drawn at the corners of her eyes. She said “There is no God. This God of the universe that you’re talking about there is no God the universe was made up from aliens.” Well I looked at her while she was talking and she looked so young, you know I’m standing there thinking “I’m a 68 year old grandma here, done travelled over 6000 miles to get to her to tell her to quit running, and she’s gonna tell me an alien made us.” I said “Honey, who taught you that?” She looked up at me and she said “No it’s true” and I said “No it’s not true.” I began to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with her, I began to talk to her about her mom and about her grandmother. After much conversation, because it took me a minute, after we finished talking she accepted Jesus as Savior, then I told her how I had gotten there that God had sent me I said “God had sent me here just for you because you need a grandma.” She said “A grandma?” “Yes you need a grandma, a nana, a big momma.” She said “Big momma!” So she started calling me Big Momma. So all the other kids would say “Big Momma, now that’s Big Momma” so I became Big Momma that day. Anyway I told her I’m here a part of Sid Roth’s evangelistic team. She said “Who is this Sid Roth? I want to meet him I want him to write his name on my collar bone.”

Sid: Listen my wife gets upset when people ask me to write my name on the book that I’ve written, but I have never had some to ask me to write my name on their collar bones, but go ahead.

Salina: “Sure he’ll do that” I volunteered you big time. I said “That’s no big deal for him” so I said “Let’s go and find Sid” because she’s all excited about this Messiah about Yeshua, and stopping people saying it’s “Messiah, it’s Yeshua, it’s Jesus.” So I finally got over to you and I said “Sid you’ve got to write your name on her collar bone here.” You looked at me like “No I can’t do that!” I said “Sid you’ve got to do this.” You said “Well give me a pen” so we gave you a pen and you were so nervous the pen wouldn’t write. So…

Sid: I’ve never written on collar bones before.

Salina: Lance’s wife she pulled another pen out and she said “Try it in my hand just to see if maybe you need to give it a start,” so you got it started. You said “I’ll write it on your shoulder…

Sid: But you know more important than that, she received the Lord she felt power going into her…

Salina: Oh I prayed I said “Lord fill what she’s done with feeling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.” Then she began to just shake all over, just really shaking. You asked her you said “What’s going on with you right now?” She looked up at you through tears and said “I don’t know I’m just vibrating all over.” Then her mouth began to vibrate and then sounds began to come out and she yelled “Yeshua You are my King, You are my King!” Oh it was just great.

Sid: Oh God is so good, God is so good.

Sid: The devils knows that his time is short and that’s why he’s coming around in disguise, disguised as good but accomplishing causing young people in droves to deny the faith.  Not in such a stupid fashion that he’d do it all at once, for instance the Harry Potter books.  My guest is Bob Larson who’s really an expert in all of these alternative spirituality things and world religions.  The Harry Potter books, I haven’t read them, but what I understand is each one is seems especially the latest is getting progressively darker; is that true?

Bob:  Oh yes very much so to the extent that the latest book “The Half Blood Prince” there have been a number of secular warnings.  Even such sources as People Magazine and USA Today have warned that this is no longer a book for children.  We haven’t even gotten to the final seventh book yet.

Sid: Now but this book “The Half Blood Prince” it’s got over 652 pages and the initial printing was more than 10 million obviously there’s an interest.

Bob: Well there’s an interest because it is about witchcraft and it presents it in a normative way, and this one of the dangers about it. We are very slowly introducing our children to the normalcy of witchcraft and the supernatural and demonism.  And you and I know that in the end of time the Bible is very clear that the reign of the anti-Christ will be instituted by some extraordinarily forms of supernaturalism.  Well this is just going to be an elevated version of Harry Potter when it happens and a generation of young people, you know there are 300 million copies of this book around the world in its various forms.

Sid: Well, how in the world does some Christian magazines and well known Christian personalities even enforce the Potter books?

Bob:   You know it’s beyond me I have a book in my desk right now by a major Christian publisher in which the man basically has become an apologetic for this book.  But look you’ve got necromancy, you’ve got…

Sid: That’s communicating with the dead.

Bob:   Yeah, you’ve got language in it that I would never think of quoting to you on this program, and yet parents will let their children use this very foul and profane language.  You have rooms, divination, children passing through brick walls supernaturally.  Harry’s described as the brightest witch of his age.  But wait a minute the Bible says that King Saul lost his life over witchcraft; the Manasseh lost his kingdom over witchcraft.  I mean the Bible’s very clear in Deuteronomy 18 “These things are an absolute abomination.”  How can we take that which is an abomination and suggest that our children read and identify with idolize a character who is using all of the powers God has forbidden?

Sid: What is the consequence of someone being involved in all of these things I doubt if someone can what television any night of the week and do channel surfing without catching a few of these.

Bob:  Well, there’s the danger and I’ve run into children who have become demonized because they wanted to be the next Harry Potter.  So they decided that they would talk to the dead; they decided they would try to perform spells and incantations based upon what they read in the book.  And in doing so they practiced witchcraft and in doing so opened themselves up to demons.

Sid: Give me one person that comes to mind that you had a deliverance over that was involved in either Harry Potter or say the one that’s equally as large Star Wars.

Bob: Oh my there is so many of them. I remember one young lady came to one of my seminars and I spotted her and I saw that she was quite disturbed while I was teaching.  I said to her “Are you a Christian?”  She said, “Well, not really.”  I said “What are you?”  She said “I’m Buddhist.”  And I said “Why did you decide that?”  She said “After seeing all of the Star Wars movies I decided that that was the path I wanted to choose.”  And so I talked with her and convinced her that she needed to consider the claims of Christ.”  I said “Let’s do a little experiment here.” I said “Would you be willing to renounce Buddha if he is not the truth and to confess Christ?”  She said “Yes.”  And I had her say something very simple, I renounce Buddha.”  When she got to the word Buddha she literally couldn’t speak she choked, she would go “Bud-bud.”  And it got her attention, she said “What is that?”  I said “That’s the power of demonic forces that don’t want you to renounce the emotional and the spiritual tie you have with that false religious system.  And she had to go through deliverance before she could renounce Buddha and confess Christ.  All because she started watching these movies; thought that this Buddhism that so subtly presented was the way and begin to embrace it.

Sid: You know this is amazing I’m looking at my notes right now and would you tell your audience what happened to you last year in Australia with this live on air exorcism on a man who according to my notes he’s called Australia’s Howard Stern?

Bob:  Well, two things happened and you’ll be interested in the other two. Yes he was the Howard Stern of Australia. We had amazing secular media coverage while we were there and I was live in the studio and this number 1 radio show in Australia and this guy said “Bud, do an exorcism on me.”  And so I asked what his problems were and I found out that when he was a teenager he had given his soul to the devil.

Sid: Hmm.

Bob:  Well, he’s on life radio and I prayed and bound Satan and he froze, he absolutely froze.  When the cohost came back came a little later he said “When Bob Larson was praying with me I couldn’t speak, I could not utter a word, my body trembled and shook inside and I couldn’t do anything.”  And it absolutely freaked him out, but what’s more interesting, and I think you’ll clue in on this, what led me to Australia was that one of the top television stars in Australia a Jew came to me in America for an exorcism.  He had traveled the world investigating religions and had indulged in every single thing that’s in my book of world religion I mean this guy’s done it all.  He came to me and he said “Do you think I have any demons as a result.  I mean he did voodoo, he did witchcraft, he did Satanism, he did it all.  I said “Yes, you do.”  When we confronted the demonic forces,  by the way they videotaped this and showed it live on national television I Australia.  We encountered and get this a spirit of abominations that was at the head of the demonic kingdom inside him. And I said “You’re just like Israel, always whoring after other gods and in your particular case that’s what the quests for all these religions was all about.  Well he accepted the Lord as his Messiah, they actually videotaped this and they showed it national television in Australia.  And right now they’re showing it on national television in New Zealand.

Sid: Bob after that phenomenal media exposure you then had some public meetings what happened?

Bob:  In the public meetings what we discovered is that ¾ of the audience was not Christian.  And as a result of that we found that these non-Christians, and what is essentially is a pagan country, were very open to the gospel because when you confront people with the power of God and the truth of Christ.  When they haven’t had it and countries like Australia, England and much of Western Europe they just turn their backs on God completely.  But when they are here the truth they will respond to the truth and this is what impressed me so much. We had amazing deliverances, exorcism, salvations, you name it. People had no inhibition about turning to God because they didn’t know God.

Sid: Let me switch gears for a moment Bob and I want you to tell me why you put together this book, it’s a big book it’s called “Larson’s Book of World Religions an Alternative Spirituality.”

Bob:  The Bible says be ready to give an answer to every man who asks a reason of the hope that is in you.  And the Bible tells us in Hosea 4:6 “We are destroyed, God’s people, for lack of knowledge;” with knowledge comes power.  And the power to confront evil ideologies of our age is only available when we have the knowledge to do it.  Sid we can’t pretend in the past that we’re a Christian country.  Everybody understands Christianity, the fact is the majority of the people today have sampled something other than Christianity and their minds are held bondage to it and we have to know what those lies are to confront them.

Sid: I mean according to my notes you stated there are 6 million Muslims in the United States. Yet the average Christian from the President of the United States on down obviously does not understand Islam.  It certainly is not a peace loving religion.

Bob:  Well, more than that it’s a religion which in its sacred scriptures and pronouncements hates Jews, hates Christians.  It was founded on anti-Semitism; it believes that Jews are cursed and that Christians and Jews belong in Hell and it has a mission to accomplish the eradication of the Jewish nation.

Sid: And some would say “That’s just your spin on a couple of sentences out of sequence, out of context in our sacred books but that’s not what our religion believes.”

Bob:  Well, I think the proof is in the pudding, if we look at the behavior of those that take those teachings and are willing to blow up innocent Jewish children, women, non-combatants in the most horrible of circumstances and westerners as well, we see the logical conclusion.

Sid: Listen I can’t understand the United States pushing for an Islamic state in the Middle East called Palestine.

Bob:  That’s right and right now unfortunately we have young men and woman dying for an Iraqi constitution that enshrines Islam as a state religion.  I mean we got to wake up in America…

Sid: Someone’s got to turn the world upside down like they did in the Book of Acts.  Well I’ll tell you what your book is a good step it’s called “Larson’s Book of World Religions an Alternative Spirituality.”

Sid: There is going to be a release as these Jewish people are having the spiritual scales removed from our eyes, and are coming to know Messiah and the spiritual scales are coming off the eyes of Gentile Christians in reference to the Jew in Israel. As these two anointing’s merge together devil watch out, but in the meantime the devil is doing everything possible to destroy the Jewish people. He’s literally setting up a Trojan horse in the Middle East by the “two-state solution.” I have on the telephone a Jewish believer that’s living in Israel since 1973 Lance Lambert.  Lance what do you believe the true intent of the “Palestinians” will be in reference to the two-state solution? Will they ever be satisfied having Judea and Samaria?

Lance: Never, never. The fact of the matter is Mahmoud Abbas the present leader of the Palestinians was one of those who refused to come back to the land from Tunisia because he believes that Arafat was being strong enough.

Sid: Hmm.

Lance: That’s an interesting point isn’t it? He is the father of the plan, the strategy, to destroy Israel by stages. The first stage is to get a mini-state, then to start again the kind of intifada problem. Then after that expand more until in the end Israel is demoralized and simply withers away.

Sid: You know what that reminds me of Lance?

Lance: Yes.

Sid: A man by the name of Adolf Hitler who in prison wrote Mein Kampf in which he stated exactly what he would do, and then he proceeded to do it; sounds similar.

Lance: Well you know Mahmoud Abbas got his degree on saying that the holocaust never happened.

Sid: This is the person that Israel is being forced to by our Haman State Department to cooperate with?

Lance: Yeah, they call him a murderer. I mean the fact of the matter is he’s much nicer looking than Arafat, and he dresses much more nicely, and he is by nature a much better man. The fact still remains unless he is totally changed, there is no hope whatsoever because Islam in its militant and fundamentalist state cannot accept a Jewish state in the Middle East, full stop period.

Sid: So what is your prognosis on this two-state solution, what is going to happen in your opinion?

Lance: Well I think the world is going… and the States are going to force Israel to accept it. First they said about the Gaza withdrawal, then they tried to make out that this was Sharon’s idea and not Bush’s. Now Condoleezza Rice has said “Two or three times we do not believe it should end there.” In other words, they believe that the settlement blocks in Judea and Samaria had to be given up, even more interesting Jerusalem has to be given up. That is the old city.

Sid: I’ll tell you something, I have to put it in writing, if that ever occurs because of the strong arm of the United States our money is not going to be worth anything.

Lance: Absolutely it is just going to be paper.

Sid: Tell me about Ariel Sharon I mean you know a great deal about him. How could Ariel Sharon who was so Zionistic…

Lance: Yes.

Sid: back off like he has.

Lance: Sharon is a remarkable man. I had the greatest respect for him, but how he has done this none of us know. He’s kept the cards so near to his chest that we really don’t know what he’s trying to do. Is he trying to prove to the world that we would be prepared to withdrawal certain things and then we are expecting the Palestinians to reciprocate? They are not reciprocating not in any single way. Mahmoud Abbas has refused to arrest Hamas and Al Jihad people. So Israel is having to do it, I mean it means we get all the opprobrium from the world media. The Palestinians are looked up as some poor people that are suffering greatly. No other country, including the United States, United Kingdom, and any European country would put up with this kind of thing.

Sid: I have to tell you it’s got to be completely supernatural that even Israel… I know that Israeli’s are sick of their young people being with suicide bombs. I understand all of that, but how in their wildest imagination could they think that they could ever have peace with a culture since infancy is taught “You must destroy the Jew they have our land.”

Lance: Well they actually speak of the Jews as monkeys and pigs that they are not human.

Sid: I just don’t get it.

Lance: It’s unbelievable but it’s true. My feeling is very simple it is, if it was not for God we would be finished, but God is on the battlefield.

Sid: You know I’ve often wondered it appears as though the different Arab nations have a great deal of difficulty getting along. Yet the Bible talks about in Psalms “A day will come where they will unite.” Do you see that day coming anytime soon?

Lance: Well they will only unite to destroy us. They will then fall back in to their divisions and factions almost immediately. They will not be able to destroy us because God, in spite of our sin, I’m speaking now as a Jew, in spite of our sin, in spite of our disobedience, in spite of our stiff-neckness, our blindness, God… this matter is to do with His eternal purpose. He will not allow it to be destroyed or frustrated. So that’s what I mean when I say God is on the field.

Sid: Okay, what about Iran. Now we’re talking about they are weeks away from developing their nuclear power. How do you see Iran playing into this because of the new head of Iran is saying some outrageous things?

Lance: Outrageous! I mean we haven’t heard that kind of a thing… well we did hear Saddam Hussein say that he would gas and incinerate us. Really this is the same demonic spirit that energized Adolf Hitler and the men around him.

Sid: Alright for those who aren’t familiar would you quote what the head of Iran recently said?

Lance: Yes he said “That Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.”

Sid: The thing that’s a little scary about this, number one we both know insight information from the Bible it won’t happen. However, what is a little scary is there developing atomic weapons and power.

Lance: Oh definitely. I mean I don’t if any of you have seen the book by Kenneth Timmerman “Countdown to Crisis.” It’s only just come out a couple of months ago. I mean it’s really a horrifying account of how far the Iranians have got. The stupidity of the European and the British, and the American intelligence communities who have so far gone along with it.

Sid: Our good friend Russia of course is supplying them with all this information.

Lance: Sid not only Russia, North Korea has been an incredible help to them in producing a nuclear device.  So is China, China has got a hand in this.

Sid: Alright let’s suppose they follow through on their threat and they say “Well we’re just going to nuke Israel and be done with it.” Let’s suppose Israel finds out, what picture do you see taking place?

Lance: I think Israel will suffer for her own unbelief and secularism, BUT she will not disappear. She may be corrected as the word of God says in Jeremiah in part, but the Lord will not forsake her.

Sid: Do you Israel perhaps doing a preemptive strike on Iran?

Lance: It would be a possibility that if once Israel thought she was put into a corner and backed up against the wall, she will. I don’t have any doubt about it and that’ll cause part of the world to holler like mad.

Sid: By the way, who do you see leading Israel? Will Ariel Sharon survive?

Lance: Sharon I think most Israeli’s think he’s the probably the only who could lead us at the present time. Of course Netanyahu is a good man I have the highest respect for him, but he made some mistakes when he was Prime Minister over Hebron, and over the wide plantation.

Sid: Well my spin is that Ariel Sharon because of… if he continues his pushing through withdrawal will go into big disfavor and Netanyahu will take over.

Lance: Yes there is a real possibility of that, but I think that probably by in large there is almost a majority in Israel that would support Sharon.

Sid: Hmm.

Lance: Even now. The fact is, the withdrawal from Gaza is a wound that has not healed it continues…

Sid: What do you think the Palestinians in their heart of hearts at this point now that they got a little bit of Israel?

Lance: They believe they’ll get the lot.

Sid: Oh we’re out of time.

Sid: You know Mispochah God has been speaking to me in my dreams and I normally don’t understand this symbolism and it’s almost like multiple guess for me as to what God is telling.  But lately I’ve been getting revelation on the symbolism.  And I had a dream last night and I believe there are people listening to me right now that that’s what God was telling me.  In this dream I saw a husband go to a wife and it could be the reverse by the way, and say “I do not love you and the wife was devastated.”  Do you identify with that?  I have Pastor Henry Wright on the telephone, and he is the Pastor of Pleasant Valley Church Thomaston, Georgia.  But he’s more than a Pastor he’s a man that has devoted his life to understanding how believers can be whole on this side of Heaven rather than just waiting till you die, and that’s the way that God intended it.  And he wrote a manual called “A More Excellent Way” subtitled “Spiritual Roots of Disease, Pathways to Wholeness.”  And he’s identified for the major diseases in society the spiritual rootedness of these diseases and it’s different for each disease.  But on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about women’s top health threats.  Henry you listed them but you said the biggy, the one that is really if you can get on top of this one you can stop the enemy in his footsteps literally is this lack of love that actually fear comes from and fear opens you up to so many diseases that the enemy wants to put on you. But this lack of love there are people listening to us right now Pastor Henry that need a pastor to counsel them right now.  Let’s take that woman whose husband has just said “I don’t love you,” talk to her would you?

Henry:  Well the issue is bigger than you can imagine in conferences that I do.  In fact I challenge every pastor listening in your Sunday morning service when you go in there this Sunday I want you to ask your audience a question.  “How many are growing up as children did not remember hearing your earthly father say to these words ‘I love you?’”  And I guarantee you statistically that 95% of your audience will raise their hand.  The problem begins in generations of failure of people to love and be loved.  The man who doesn’t know how to love is a man who was not loved; his father didn’t love him. The female that doesn’t know how to love she was not loved by her father, or even by her mother.  I mean I deal with all kinds of diseases just coming out of the failure of nurturing and love and acceptance. You have verbal abuse, and physical abuse, and sexual abuse and all kinds of problems. In order to understand when the husband comes to you and says “I don’t love you is that he doesn’t love himself.”  Now how can a man…

Sid: Yeah but that’s now a big consolation to the wife.

Henry:  Well, it has to be a consolation to get her to understand because what happens because she’s a responder Sid.  If he comes to her and says “I don’t love you” she feels devastated because she feels like she’s failed.

Sid: It’s her fault, sure.

Henry:  And here comes the enemy to accuse her as and he’ll use excuses why she’s the problem. But can I give you a scripture.

Sid: Please.

Henry:  Oh, I’d be happy to. The Bible says “A man who loves his wife loves himself.” So if you a man that’s not loving his wife he doesn’t love himself and so he’s a man who is looking for love in all the wrong places.  And so really the reason that he doesn’t love her isn’t because she’s not lovely, or she’s not able to be loved; it’s he has a real problem. He has self-hatred and he doesn’t love himself. So what he’s what he’s going to do rather than develop a relationship with her which she couldn’t develop a relationship with anybody.  I had a man come to me a while ago that said “Well, I’m just going to divorce my wife and marry somebody else.”  And I said “Why?”  “Well, I just don’t love her anymore and I said, “Well, why did you get her to begin with?”  (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing)

Henry: “How did you get her to marry you to begin with?”  “Well I…”  “Did you fall in love with her?” “Well, yeah.”  “Well then how did you fall in love with her; you fell in love with her then that love that built that thing is the same thing that’s here today so something must have joined you to destroy who you are in love.” And then what happens to a man Sid and if you’re listening to this as a female listening to this and they’re probably many, is that this man has a family generation of men who have done the same things. And their looking for dopamine rushes, they’re looking at… many of you will find them in pornography.  Their looking for dopamine rushes, they have a need to be loved, but they don’t have the foundation to give it and there is your problem. So when that man comes to you and says that he doesn’t love you don’t you be crushed. In fact as I speak right now “Father in the Name of Jesus I release Your Spirit of revelation to speak to every female listening who has a problem with her husband.”  If you’re a man out here and your listing to this pastor talk right now you’re no different than your generation because you have joined with you a kingdom that will destroy relationships.  You may think you’re going into a different relationship with a better hug; you’re going back into the same problem because you’re going to take the same unloving spirits with you into the next relationship and the next relationship and the next relationship until you are delivered by the living God! And “In the name of Jesus I release the spirit of revelation to come into male and female as I speak it’s time to defeat the enemy; it’s time to go back to the foundation of creation and begin to get the stuff out of our life that keeps us from loving each other.  I release the spirit of reconciliation right now first into the men that are listing I speak to you;” I will tell you something Sid as I’m talking in every man that’s listened to me if you will get on your knees before God and repent. If you will get on your knees before your wife and your children and begin to take responsibility for hardness of heart and legalism and control and driveness, you’re going to see revival in your home. You’re going to see people beginning to respond to you and your going to get the love that you need Sir; you’re going to get the love that you’re going to have to love your love wife who loved your children and revival will begin in your home and in your marriage and in your business and in your church and in your country. And that wife out there listening right you say “Amen” because that’s the problem. And little sister I tell you can only respond to what you can respond to and if there is nothing to respond to then what can you do about that.  You’re not the problem you’re designed by God to be a responder in the Name of Jesus. “I release these females back to your peace, I release you back to your feeling to cleanness and wholeness in the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Sid: I’ll tell you Henry based on that dream I had I know that this is the beginning of a wonderful start.  Now there’s women listening to us right now and men listening to us right now that will see changes in their spouses but in the meantime what do they do?

Henry: In the mean time they’re going to have to learn to separate the person from their sin. You can no longer take this person’s failure in your life personally, you can no longer go down under guilt and shame.  If you have responded, the females listening, if you have responded out of your hurt; if you responded out of your need you responded with saying things and things because you were hurt repent to God and repent to your husband whether he receives it or not you take your peace and “I release you to your healing, I release you to your sanity of your mind.  I release you from the feelings of fear and the spirits of fear that would bind your mind and oppress you in this area. I release a Spirit of God into your heart and in your life to bring you peace to your hearts and give you hope for a change of a new day in the Name of Jesus. Amen.”

Sid: Amen, you know Henry I have your manual here and I have to call it a manual it’s called “A More Excellent Way.” You have added so many new… the manual was wonderful before but you have added so much. I have to believe the reason you’ve added so much to this is because you’ve learned so much since you originally wrote it.

Henry:  Well, we’re learning more; we’re learning so much right now we’re delving into areas of biology and psychology and spirituality that actually Sid the book is just an insight.  I feel so inadequate at times because even though we’ve seen things; we see things and God is honoring this with so many people’s lives being changed in terms of the magnitude of the degradation and the destruction  of planet and physiological and biological and spiritual diseases we’ve hardly even put a drop in an ocean of solution.  But I certainly am dedicated to the kingdom of God coming to this planet and everything that God represents being part of people’s life because God is the answer and He’s made it provided through us and it’s our time to respond to God because all good things come down from the Father of lights above which there is no variableness of turning.

Sid: Now I’m looking at one disease here that you’ve got a testimony on sleep apnea and now a lot of people have this and they get their breathing machines and they’re fine, but there’s a more excellent way isn’t there.

Henry:  Yeah sleep apnea really is pretty easy to get healed it’s simply a result of the sympathetic nervous system affecting individuals who have not made any allowance for failure in their life.  It’s simply a neurological imbalance causing the sleep problem; we have a number of people that have been healed of sleep apnea when they begin to take their peace.  Let me say this to people struggling with sleep apnea “You don’t have to worry about tomorrow if you’re in God you’re always going to have new tomorrow and you’re always going to have another day to work things out. So I release you in the Name of Jesus from cramming everything into one day as your whole life and your whole future is based on what you do today.”

Sid:  How do you make allowances for the failures in your life?

Henry:  Oh, you have to the Bible says so “God looked down from Heaven and saw that we were but dust and He had compassion on us.  Out of our weakness He has made strong but the righteous fall seven times.”  I don’t think a person has made an allowance for failure; I tell people this challenges you.  If you’ve not made an allowance for failure in your life you will never succeed because you have fear of failure.

Sid: Don’t look back.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Henry Wright, Pastor of Pleasant Valley Church in Thomaston, Georgia.  He has invested his life in understanding healing; and he’s written a manual it’s called “A More Excellant Way” subtitled “Spiritual Roots of Disease, Pathways to Wholeness.” And he has just the most unusual teaching that so few Christians understand.  We were sharing a scripture yesterday, “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge” and then he alphabetically lists the major diseases.  I’m just thumbing through acne, Crone’s disease, diabetes, ADD.  Then he has testimonies of people that have been healed and so many people are getting healed by just reading this manual coming to grips with what the cause of their problems are; repenting and that’s what’s necessary changing behavior and they’re getting healed.  Henry before we went on the air you told me about a survey of woman’s top health threats; explain.

Henry:  This is Shah Mayo Clinic actually this year in April 13^th of this year.  The number 1 is heart disease; number 2 is cancer; number 3 are strokes; number 4. is chronic obstructive pulmonary disease; number 5 is Alzheimer’s disease; number 6 is diabetes; number 7 is accidents.  Six of the seven are spiritual rooted; what’s really interesting here in this article is that the solutions have nothing to do with our spirituality or even how we think.  The only thing that Mayo Clinic is offering in this article is avoid smoking, amount of alcohol you drink, eating and diet rich in fruits and vegetables, exercise and control other health conditions such as high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol, which are all spiritual diseases.  Not one thing Mayo Clinic is saying is really involved in heart diseases at all to speak of and that is love.

Sid: Hmm.

Henry: And the other is fear.

Sid: Let’s focus on love because this is a problem in our society. A wife goes to her husband or a husband goes to his wife and says “I don’t love you” and they’re devastated.  Is that what you’re talking about?

Henry: Well, I’ve been dealing with female diseases for over 22 years and I will tell you that to the bulk of female disorders are a lack of covering and loved by fathers and husbands. Boy that will get me some applause out there in the audience out there I’m sure.  But it’s true; the females were designed by God according to scriptures to be covered by someone and something stronger than them who are able to give them a place of love, acceptance and safety.  And the females were created for us by God to help us serve as a helpmate. And I don’t think we’ve treated these girls like we should have because if we had they wouldn’t be in such goofy shape when it comes to disease.  Let’s talk about love and fear; the Bible says in the last days men’s hearts shall fail them because of fear. I don’t even see that listed here in Mayo Clinic’s article however in the Journal of American Medicine there’s probably about 30 different disease that are listed that are the product of fear, anxiety and stress.  Now let’s talk about fear. 1^st John 4:18 says “There is no fear in love.”  Oh boy, right there in the Bible in 1^st John chapter 4 verse 18 is a tremendous open door to conversation.  Could it be that if we have not experienced love correctly; maybe we don’t think God loves us; maybe we don’t love ourselves.  Maybe we don’t love others or maybe we don’t feel others love us. Could it be then that fear comes because we don’t feel loved?  Absolutely because if there is no fear in love, if you have not been loved perfectly then fear comes.  And so right here we have a tremendous article; can I read something to you it’s an article called “The mind heart connection.” by Dr. Dean Ornish.  I think just about everybody in the world knows Dr. Dean Ornish is. Can I just read you something?

Sid: Please.

Henry:  I’m not aware of any other factor in medicine not diet, not smoking, not exercise, not stress, not genetics, not drugs, not surgery that has a greater impact on our quality of life, incidents of illness and premature death says Dr. Dean Ornish MD than does the healing power of love. Dr. Ornish and growing number of other scientists the real epidemic in the America culture is not heart disease but rather emotional and spiritual diseases once associated with the heart; alienation, depression and loneliness.

Sid: Okay this begs the question the woman knows she’s in that boat there is no guess work on her part, what does she do about it?

Henry: Well, this opens up the big issue is that maybe there can be activity between her and her husband to restore the difficulties.  This is easy for me to say apart from God it’s almost impossible to bring peace because we’re into trying to move the pieces around without resolving what’s behind it.

Sid: Alright, what if the husband stays with the wife but literally doesn’t love the wife there is not a change; does the woman have to then suffer these diseases as a result of the fear that’s coming from this lack of love?

Henry: We’re assuming that he is not abusing her.

Sid: Assuming he’s not abusing her yes.

Henry:   Assuming it’s just a lack of well, they’ve grown cold; that’s assuming that.  In Christian marriages when we do Christian marriage and we have this we take the person back to an understanding that teaching them on separation that they cannot take that husband’s sin into their bodies.  And that’s what they’re doing, they are taking another person’s sin into their bodies and then repaying…

Sid: Wait a second, what do mean taking another person’s sins into their bodies?

Henry:  Well, if a person is not loving you we take that as rejection; we take that personally as if we were the problem. And then we repay that rejection by the husband with our own rejection of bitterness and fear and shame and as if they’re issues were our problem. I may have my problems; you may have your problems, they may have their problems but we don’t have the right to take other people’s problems into our lives to produce disease and we do.  We take people inside all the things they say and do against us we take it personal, we go down under it; we go down in guilt, we go down in shame;  we go down in bitterness; we go down in fear and that’s what I mean by taking other peoples’ stuff into you.

Sid: Okay someone’s listening to us that really identifying what could they do, obviously their praying for their spouse to change, maybe he’s not even a Christian, but what can they do in the mean time for themselves.

Henry: Well, first of all they need to pick back up their righteousness. Your righteousness is of God I lead people in a prayer to restore to me Father the joy of your salvation.  The next thing is that the Bible says that they had an unbelieving husband at that level even in the area of love that they’re to win him by their chase conversation and behavior which means they are going to have pick back up their own spirituality no matter what he does or doesn’t do.  The thing that we do in ministry and this powerful I know even in Christianity we always say that the Lord is your husband yet church you’re just betrothed.  The marriage supper of the lamb is when you become you take on that role.  Right now church and anybody listening if you’re a believer and you’re having these problems with your husband is that you’re in your Father’s house. God the Father is your Father and I think this is a missing link in ministry and our being helped programs we bring the people back into contact with God the Father in the Name of Jesus so that they may be reconciled to the Father of all spirits. And if you’re here you’re in your Father’s house. I mean did you get that?  What a powerful concept. See you’re not alone anymore.  The problem that we do is this because God is invisible, because we haven’t seen the fulfillment of prophetic timeline and we should be joined with Messiah; we should be joined with the Father and in our generation we here suffering and struggling with all these problems it has to be by revelation; it has to be that work of the Holy Spirit that we can take our peace concerning ourself and God.  And in this there is a protection for the healing the prevention of disease.

Sid: Can we take one of these top diseases and woman’s health and have actual quick testimony of someone that did something about it and got healed.

Henry: Oh, my goodness where do I start with this one. We have a number of people that have come especially with fibromyalgia, I mean right at the top of the list fibromyalgia is easily healed when a woman which is 99% female disorder.  Besides to not let the failure of men be the problem to her safety and her peace.  The issue of heart disease we’ve had many people who have been healed of atrial fibrillation, they’ve been healed of mitral valve prolapse; they’ve been healed of even gird and reflux and alternative colitis, and they’ve been healed of all of these peripheral diseases coming out of one thing not feeling loved or accepted. I mean there’s probably 20 different disease testimonies that we can give you Sid from people who are healed just by taking their peace and failure of a man not to cover them and love them correctly and let God be their source.

Sid: You know as you’re speaking I’m feeling such an outpouring of God’s peace and love…

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Michael Brown. He’s president and founder of Fire School of Ministry in Concord, North Carolina just outside of Charlotte. I recently conducted a debate between Dr. Michael Brown, a Jewish believer in the Messiah, and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, that many consider as the most famous, or the most prominent traditional rabbi in America. The subject was “Who is Jesus?” absolutely high adventure. Very few Christians have ever heard the arguments that traditional rabbis have as to why Jesus is not the Messiah. Why? They don’t want to stop a Gentile from believing in Jesus, but there are literally rabbis that have spent a third of their life just studying to prove Jesus is not the Messiah. Their arguments are very very credible if you have never researched these facts, but if you research them there are good answers to good objections. So that’s why we had the debate “Who is Jesus?” I have on the telephone right now Dr. Michael Brown. Mike why would a traditional rabbi with so much credibility as Rabbi Shmuley Boteach even be party to a debate like this?

Michael: That’s the question that many Jews ask Shmuley as well. I really have to commend him for doing what he feels is right. I’ll explain his motivation in a minute because we’ve actually become good friends, and we’ve spent many good hours together on a personal level. We do honor and esteem each other as fellow Jews. You see the normal Jewish view would be this:

1. Don’t give these guys a platform. They’re just missionaries don’t give them a platform.
2. To engage them in debate is to give credibility to their position and to acknowledge them.
3. There’s a bad history of forced debates in the Middle Ages where Jews had to debate the Christian oppositions. So the history leaves a bad taste in our mouth.
4. These things stand against positive Jewish Christian relationships.
5. Why give them any opportunity to influence people at all.

So based on that, Shmuley has had strong resistance “Don’t do these debates.” The reason he does them… when he was at Oxford University and headed up a very large student group “L’chaim” there, a Jewish student group. He brought in all kinds of foreign dignitaries and different people to speak to the students. He also debated almost everybody on any subject. It didn’t matter what their position, if it was in his mind a wrong position or an anti-God, or anti-Jewish, or anti-moral position. He’d debate Oxford professors and this and that. So a lot of this is in his blood and he believes that Judaism has to be able to survive in what you could call the market place of ideas. In other words, if you go back words, if you say we’re not going to discuss this, that’s only going to hurt the cause; rather Judaism has be able to come into the public forum defend its ideas, defend its views in such a way that it has nothing to fear and nothing back down to.

Sid: You know Mike the debate almost didn’t happen because Rabbi Shmuley showed up we were doing shows, and he walked in and said “I’m ready for lunch. Where’s my kosher lunch?”  and he asked someone that didn’t realize that we had set aside a kosher lunch, and they said “Well we don’t have any kosher lunch here.” With that he thought “I’ve been betrayed” and he goes stomping out, and who does he walk into? He bumps into you. What happened Mike?

Michael: Well you I travel a lot just like Shmuley. You don’t like it when you arrive somewhere and things are not setup properly, you kind of feel slighted. You were doing what, I think 10 different shows that day, and didn’t have the ability to coordinate picking up every last person at the airport, etc.  You had been conscientious enough to have 2 kosher meals waiting there for Shmuley, I guess for lunch and for dinner. Yeah, the wrong person was asked, so he just felt he’s been slighted; wasn’t even betrayed he just felt “Look I come all this way my own time, there’s no reason to do this, but solidarity with Mike, and being willing to do these debates. Now I get here and I’m not even being treated properly.” So I showed up and we went out for a kosher lunch together. I said “Hey Shmuley I’m with you whatever you want to do I’ll stand with you, it’s just fine.”  He said “No let’s go ahead and do the debate I’m here.” So I was pleased he did it…

Sid: I imagine he felt better when he found out it was a misunderstanding, and we did have a kosher meal for him.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah in fact we enjoyed that for dinner. We went to a restaurant and he got his kosher meal…

Sid: What did he think afterwards between you and me, what did he say about me because that was the first time we met, and the debate?

Michael: The debate, first he really enjoys doing them. We’ve done a series of face to face debates probably in front of more than 4000 people at least in the last 2 years. So they’ve really drawn people in different settings from college campuses to hotel auditoriums. He really enjoys doing them because of the intellectual stimulation. He misses the debating atmospheres he had at Oxford. So for him every debate is an intellectually stimulating thing and he thoroughly enjoys it on that score. Once he was on he liked you as an individual, he thought you spoke well and he was positively impressed with you. Overall, everything got straightened out well, and he had no regrets about the debate felt positive about it, and felt it was good sharp and intellectually stimulating.

Sid: Okay. There’s something you’re aware of, it was in the intellectual arena. Although it’s important for people to think for themselves and have the facts, I decided at the end of each show I would talk about something that is not a debatable thing, and that is intimacy with God, knowing God for yourself. So it’s almost like on our show It’s Supernatural I use miracles to grab someone’s attention so they can hear the gospel. That’s what too me, the exciting thing about the debate because we had to grab the attention of Christians, Muslims, non-believers, and anything Jewish people. I mean it’s a fascinating thing when 2 Jewish people go at and one says “I bet my life Jesus is the Messiah” and the other one says “I bet my life Jesus is not the Messiah.”

Michael: You know here’s the other side of it Sid that needs to be considered. You know we rightly commend Shmuley for going against resistance and opposition to do these debates. He’s definitely to be commended for it intellectually and spiritually for doing what he does. Let’s flip this around Sid, the majority of your viewers are probably believers, the majority of your listeners are probably believers, and we as Jewish men who love Yeshua were not afraid to bring on a very sharp, a well-spoken, well-educated man to have him challenge what we believe in public.  In other words, we have nothing to be ashamed of, we have nothing we’re afraid of, we don’t have some system that we erected and it’s all a house of cards and you blow on it and it comes falling down. For years I have been looking for people that were willing to have public debate and dialog. See when I first came to the Lord I was challenged left and right “Well you don’t know anything how can you teach, how can you explain things” and I’m sure they would have debated me in a heartbeat, but once began to learn and understand and be able to give more support to my position intellectually and academically, suddenly the debating challenges seem to dry up. So we need people to understand, and anyone listening that doesn’t know the Lord this is an open book, this is not secret system where you get initiated somewhere, or like the Mormons where “We don’t tell you the whole story up front, cause if we told you the whole story up front you’d never believe it you’d run from it.” This whole thing is open and Jesus would say “Come and see, come and see” the psalmist said “Taste and see that the Lord is good.” Last night my wife was watching the old Ben Hur video and that’s an extraordinarily powerful Christian witness. At the end of the movie when Ben Hur’s mother who’s a leper is miraculously healed by the Lord and there’s that sense “He’s real this thing is real!” Sid you and I have experienced that not just when we first got saved, but in different ways through the years. Sometimes you breakdown crying because “He’s real look at what the Lord has done,” it’s not a matter of we have this ancient faith and these historical documents about someone that died and it’s a good story. We’re talking about someone who is alive today.

Sid: Listen every time I speak Jesus shows up, and miracles happen, and I have to tell you, like yourself, I’ve been a believer now over 30 years. It never gets old, it’s the most exciting thing… I live to see God demonstrate His greatness.

Michael: Sid if we don’t have an ongoing experience with God, I don’t mean that we don’t have struggles and problems, I don’t mean that we push a button and automatically get millions of dollars and perfect health and never have a battle. If we are not walking with God, if we cannot tell someone what He is like and who He is, if we don’t have a living testimony something’s missing and it’s not on God’s part. He’s saying “Come and swim in the waters of My life.”  That’s one thing I love just to talk to traditional Jews about “Okay you be very sincere, you may be very devoted, I’ve given you my arguments for what I believe, why not ask God to show Himself, why not ask God to speak and act” because that ultimately is the thing that’s going to settle all arguments when God Himself works in someone’s life. What can they say when they’ve had an encounter with God?

Sid: Now what does a rabbi or a traditional Jew say when you say “Ask God” what would he say to that?

Michael: Generally speaking they would feel that to ask for revelation is to go against what is written, to go against tradition. They would say God gave us the rabbis, God gave us the Talmud, God gave us the traditions, and we shouldn’t ask outside of that. Everything we have is self-sufficient it was good enough for my father, my grandfather, for his grandfather it sustained us through the holocaust, it sustained us through the inquisitions and the crusades. So we have been explicitly told not to worship idols, we were explicitly told that Mt. Sinai when God revealed Himself there was no form so don’t make a form of a man…

Sid: I tell you what, we’re out of time.