Sid: I have on the telephone Rick Joyner he’s the director of Morningstar Ministries; Author of the bestselling series “Final Quest.” I’m interviewing him this week on what I consider the most significant book he has ever done for such a time as this. It’s called “The Power to Change the World.” Rick is a historian at heart and a man of spirit. He’s combined the best of both to put a prophetic understanding of the 2 greatest revivals in history and what it means for today. What it means for the next revival that’s coming. You say something in your book that intrigues me Rick. You talk about the supernatural unity that people had when they were in the manifest presence of God with such a tangible fashion. They would speak to people not so much what they saw on the outside, but they would look at them through the eyes of the Spirit not their natural eyes. Explain what you mean by that.

Rick: Well you know this was seen… I think is one of the testimonies of a true move of God is when people quit looking at externals and superficial things and they start knowing each other after the Spirit instead of the flesh. You know, like Azusa Street they were… Some of the most wealthy people in Los Angeles would come and sit right next to washerwoman, and all the races were all there together. People didn’t even see each other by racial things anymore they just saw each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. They esteemed their citizenship in the kingdom far above any cultural, or racial, or any other kind of relationship they may of had. I think that is in evidence of the true outpouring of the Holy Spirit. You know God loves diversity, and it’s interesting when He poured out His Spirit on the first day of Pentecost. It was when those from every nation were present. Then He spoke to them all in their own language; I mean it’s like… they all heard of the glories of God. I think there’s a special attraction of the Holy Spirit to places where people with differences get along, and you know one of the major human problems when there was just 2 brothers on earth they couldn’t get along. We have problems.

Sid: Maybe that’s what’s going to provoke the Jew to jealousy when there’s enough anointing that we’ll all get along.

Rick: I do believe that. Who the Jewish people have the most trouble with today are their own relatives. You know, many of them through Abraham, but I believe that’s going to change according to Isaiah 19 it’s going to change in a dramatic way.

Sid: Prophetically speaking what do you see going on in the world today?

Rick: Well… you know I see things pretty differently than you get on the news media. For example, I am astonished at how well things are going in Iraq. You know considering that situation I can’t believe how much progress has been made towards democracy and other such things in such a short period of time with so little strife, and so little… I would have expected a civil war to have exploded almost instantly instead of dozens being killed a day; I would of expected thousands to be honest with you. So I do tend to see things a little differently. People do forget history; you know no one thought Japan, or Germany could ever become a democracy. Now they’re two of the strongest in the world, two of the most powerful democracies in the world. We know the saying “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.” It’s tragic we forget that so much, but that’s one of the reasons why I wrote the, what I believe is a prophetic history, and the power to change the world; because I believe those are models those revivals are models of what we’re going to see happen again here.

Sid: Okay paint me a picture of what a church that’s experiencing the manifest presence of the God is going to look like.

Rick: Well I’ve been in meetings where the Lord manifested in a spectacular and supernatural way. Everyone instantly shut up; everyone instantly hit the ground I mean on their faces. I remember in one meeting we stay on our faces for hours, and I literally spent hours trying not to even think a thought because I was so afraid it would be unclean and that I would go up in smoke or something. I mean the fear of the Lord was so awesome because He had manifested Himself in the meeting, and everyone felt that way. It was… God is God almighty when the… even the 24 elders cast their crowns at His feet. I think there’d be something of a total attention upon the Lord. I believe we would… Today you can look in a church service under incredibly anointed preaching people are slouched back, they’re chewing gum, they’re looking around, tying their shoes; I mean if the anointing is the Holy Spirit and God is speaking to us, would you do that to the president if you were sitting and had an audience with the president, or prime minister somewhere, or something like that? Would you fidget, would you slouch in your chairs, of course not. I think one thing we don’t really respect the anointing like we should or discern it, but I think when He comes in in His manifest presence you will for sure see Him get everybody’s attention, and most of them are going to hit the floor. Most of them are going to grovel before Him; He is almighty God. That’s one thing, I mean that’s just one thing… We’ve had quite a few meetings where the anointing would come so heavy even our worship team would want to go down on their knees. I had to talk to them and tell them “Look the Levites had to go on doing their duty in the temple even with the presence of the Lord manifest.” I said “You’re Levites you’re leading the worship of the Lord.” I said “You may want to go down, your knees may be buckling, everything else, but stand up.” That’s why we tell people that come to our meetings… you know how many people feel like they have to be slain in the Spirit, but I think a lot them are being slain in the flesh, they’re just taking a dive and not really being knocked down by the Holy Spirit. Since we need to learn to stand in His presence, but if you’re ministering the presence of the King it’s going to be with all the dignity, and respect, and carefulness. You didn’t mess up in the ministry of the tabernacle or the temple, it was such a holy awesome thing. When the Lord comes in in a little way, just gives us a touch of that, I believe we’re gonna again treat all of His ministry so awesome, so holy everything we do. The ushers, I mean to be an usher in the house of the Lord is better than to be a prime minister of a nation. I mean if we really understood eternity that is the truth. We would treat these things with that kind of dignity.

Sid: You have a description in your book of Evan Roberts, the person God used for the great Welsh revival. When he had a change in his life experiencing the glory of God, tell me about that.

Rick: You know Evan Roberts, he was one thing incredibly hungry for God. There was just a drawing in his heart and he followed that drawing. He didn’t become occupied with other things; he decided to lay everything aside to follow the drawing of God. I think that’s required just like Moses had to turn aside and see that burning bush. We might wonder if Moses had not turned aside would the Lord of used him, or chosen somebody else. It almost always requires that stop what you’re doing and esteem, turning aside to God above anything else. Evan Roberts did that, he just shut down his job, his everything. He said “I’m going to pray, I’m going to seek the Lord revivals coming” he knew it in his heart. He turned aside he left his own agenda in all to pursue God. I think that’s fundamental to see this kind of thing. Then he remained incredibly sensitive to the Lord; like the story you talked about earlier in the week, you know, about how the most famous preachers in the world were coming to see him; the most famous reporters and writings were all clambering for just a little time with Evan Roberts during then. Right at the peak of the revival he just disappears for week and goes to seek the Lord and wouldn’t let anyone come near him. He wouldn’t have an audience with anyone because an audience would get “Who’s going to leave the King of kings to meet with a mere man.” He was meeting with the King of kings.

Sid: I’m reminded of a statement in my lifetime; I saw Kathryn Kuhlman and she would always say “Please, don’t grieve the Holy Spirit He’s all that I have.” She would keep pointing people towards God. She would say “Don’t look at me,” and that’s the closest I’ve seen in my lifetime of that type of “Recognizing we’re nothing.”

Rick: Yes. She’s a good example; she had a remarkable ministry of just providing, being a proper host for the Holy Spirit.

Sid: That’s really what our job is, but we’re out of time.

Sid: My guest Mickey Robinson I’m speaking to him at his home in Nashville, Tennessee; Mickey I understand there was a time in your life you thought you were superman.

Mickey:  That’s funny Sid and I don’t think it was every little boy but it was certainly me; I grew up in that era of the TV Superman. I was a child in the 50’s in the post World War.  It was a time that we didn’t realize we had had as American’s after the war that everybody seemed to have a job and prosperity and there was little league.  And one of my heroes was Superman as a child and I wanted the adventure and I always wanted to fly; and yeah he was one of my childhood heroes.

Sid: And you got into something that I’ve only seen on television or in movies sky diving; some of that’s sensation that you were looking for as a kid you wanted to be Superman.

Mickey:   Well, I have to say this “There is a whole lot more than a person could ever imagine and it was never ending.” I was really afraid or I wasn’t doing it to be “A daredevil” I just thought it would be real exhilarating and real stimulating in terms of a person with an adventurist spirit that was in athletics.

Sid: Is it a dangerous sport?

Mickey:  It is if things go wrong. (Laughing)

Sid: As we’ll find out, but what is it like soaring with just you in the wind?

Mickey:   Let’s put it this way some say “Why don’t you get a sinking feeling?”  Well, you don’t because there’s nothing that your body is pressing against anything that’s relative to gravity.  Your first 10 seconds your building up speed then you hit what’s called “Terminal velocity.”  It means going in that position the stomach facing the earth you’re going about 125 miles an hour and you won’t go any faster unless you change your body position.  It actually feels like you’re flying, and your body at that speed makes a tremendous aerodynamic device by manipulating your hands, your arms and your feet, you can fly, you can bank, you can zoom across the sky you can do flips just by making slight movements and it really feels like your flying like Superman.

Sid: Most of your life you felt like you were invincible, you were a confident person but take me to August 15, 1968.

Mickey:  Well, I was a very unusual sky diver in that after 20 jumps I had become a professional.  No one had ever advanced at that level. I was jumping with some of the greatest skydivers on the planet; two of the members of the United States parachute team who had competed for the United States. In the same way we sent Olympic teams over, we have the United States Parachute Team that competes internationally just like the Olympics.  And most of our competition was amongst the communist countries at that time at the height of the cold war. I was asked to be part of the professional demonstration team.  So I was the superstar or super-student. So I was very good at it and I was also a gymnast and a football player and so I knew those moves but it was the pure joy of jumping.  By the time you know I had been jumping for a period of time it was short but very storied period of time in terms jumping with the best in the world and jumping in the crowds of 15,000 people and getting paid for it.  Mostly I was jumping for the pleasure of that freedom you feel in free fall you have anywhere from 30 to 60 seconds prior to opening your parachute where it really feels like your flying or like you’re suspended and flying.  For me it was a momentary like falling into freedom; freedom from thinking about the Vietnam War, was I going to get drafted, thinking about anything.  It was just a pleasure it was like it was addictive obsessive thing with me; it was like a rush your living for one jump at a time.  So on that day of August 15, 1968 evening it was in Ohio, South of Cleveland, Ohio we had a club that we were using for our team and we were just practice jump.  There was three of us professionals that were going out, it was going to be kind of a high altitude jump for us, but letting two students out at lower altitudes. So it was going to require a little bit of flight time to keep gaining altitude and letting a student out, gaining a little bit more altitude and letting another out.  The 3 of us went up to 13,500 feet which would give us about 66 seconds of free fall before you open your parachute.  At that time we had choreographed doing maneuvers in the sky it’s called “Relative work” where you fly together, grab hold of yourself let go, do some maneuvers you do those kind of things usually in front of a whole crowd of people; with smoke trailing off your feet with a military smoke bomb.  Well, it was very routine for me I was never afraid to jump. From the first jump on it only got more and more exciting, and more and more peaceful actually to do it. In that particular jump because I was so carefree and so confident never anticipated anything but living moment by moment.  Shortly after we took off with 5 skydivers in the plane, myself like I said two other guys I jump professionally with and then two students, plus the pilot that was flying.  After we took off in a 6 passenger Piper Cherokee all of a sudden the engine quit; we were about 100 feet a 150 feet in the air and the next thing I knew the pilot turned and struck me on my side and said “That’s it man we’re going down.” We lost all of our lifet there was no time to try and restart the motor. There was a loss of power and flying ability of lift, we went straight – nose straight down plummeting towards the ground.  I’m certain that the view out there looked like it was certain death for everybody in the plane.

Sid: Was there enough time for fear?

Mickey:  The last thing I remember is the pilot saying that to me; waving at the people and actually when we were doing the preflight warm up and all of that we were actually going doze off because it was going to take a long time to get to altitude. That part of it I mean was so obsessed with skydiving it was boring, flying you know. I was just relaxed and I was actually kind of half asleep when we lost the engine and the pilot hit me.  And I don’t even hardly remember that; I do not remember looking out the window and hitting, I vaguely almost remember that state because when we hit that tree and we had removed all the seats except the pilots.  My body went flying forward at 100 miles an hour my face stopped my body on the instrument panel going at 100 miles an hour. So I got a pretty bad head injury although I was still moving around; I don’t remember it.

Sid: Okay but someone pulled you out of the plane tell me the circumstances.

Mickey:  Well, obviously it was a devastating crash; the two students were banged up and in shock; the third guy, a friend, was one of the guys in the professional team pushed them out the door and away from the airplane.  The fourth man that was the closest to the doorway that we were existing from was just turning to get out of the plane he saw me moving as well as the pilot and assumed we were escaping too. Just as taking his first few running steps away a fire started and the plane went up in flames.  He heard screams and realized that the pilot and myself were still inside the aircraft, went back into the plane and this brave man saw me in a state of desperation trying to pull myself though the hole that was made where the wing had been on the right side of the aircraft and my leg sticking out through that hole with my right hand I pulling as hard as I could. Something had me caught and I was soaked with gasoline and burning on fire from head to toe.  And it was just like you’ve seen war movies and things like. Grabbed a hold of my parachute harness and pulled as hard as he could.  Still couldn’t get me out and somehow a miracle took place and he tore the straps loose and dragged me away. Yelled for the pilot and said “Walt I’ll come back and get you.”  After they got the fire out they tried to turn to go get him and the wing on the left side, which had been drained of fuel for weight purposes, popped open and it was too hot and they couldn’t get him.  He unfortunately he perished. So I was obviously laying on the ground and paramedics came back and you know I was kind of vaguely in a dream like way remember some of this but it was very… I had been hurt and they put me on the stretcher and put me in the ambulance and raced to the closes little hospital; they didn’t know if I’d even make it there.  They put the oxygen mask on my face. The whole right side of my face slid off and fell on the ground.  My rescuer panicked.

Sid: Say that again, “The whole right side of your face slid off.”

Mickey:  When the put the oxygen mask on my face, yeah.

Sid: Oh my goodness.

Mickey:  My rescuer was in you know he was in a state of shock and he punched the ambulance driver, and took his jump masters knife out and cut off the mask and fed the hose and held it in my mouth, the oxygen mask in his hands as they raced to the hospital.  They cut what was left of my clothing and the equipment off and saw that I had sustained very very severe burns over a large portion of my body.  I had a brain injury, my right eye had been burned it was blinded obvious cuts and lacerations and horrible injuries. And even though I was a professional athlete in perfect health they didn’t know if I would make it through the night.  A burn like that and add that to injury the shock a lot of times just kills your body just can’t take the shock. Well, I made it through the night you know and then made it through the next day, then my brain began to swell and so I didn’t remember any of this but was what was told to me is that my head swelled up it was twice the size you know.  And then inside my brain began to swell against the skull and then I developed complications and they did all the heroics. They tried as hard as they could to care for me medically to care for me with antibiotics and bandages and that.  But I got infection all over my body; I was having internal bleeding, bleeding ten pints a day.  I had massive weight loss in a few weeks I went from that professional athlete stature to muscle to down to 90 pounds.  I looked like a picture from the holocaust; I developed sores in my body where my bones stuck through with decubitus ulcers in both nerve systems in the front part of my legs had died, and my legs had withered up.  And after they tried all they could through medical, medication, and skin grafts and all of that business they brought an expert in from one of the leading hospitals, educational hospitals in the nation, Case Western Reserve in Cleveland. They brought in a burn expert in from of the leading educational hospitals in Reserve in which was in Cleveland a burn expert and he examined me; in his report he wrote “There is simply nothing that can be done for this young man.”

Sid: So they brought your family, and they called your sister because…

Mickey:   They called them and I said yeah, both of my sisters had infants just weeks before and a lot of people just came in and stayed for a day and to come in for just one minute you know three times a day because it was constant care.  On this particular day after they just decided to let me alone and let nature take its course. They called my sister and said “Barbara,” that’s also my wife’s name, “Barb you better come in to your brother because he won’t be here this afternoon.”  And I remember being… and sometimes Sid you know I was out in a coma other times I was kind of in the twilight zone, but sometimes I was awake.  And I want you to know that the pain…

Sid: You know what we’re out of time. We’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.  He has an encounter with Jesus.

Sid: I believe my guest this week is going to cause your thermostat to just explode it’s going to go through the top of the glass.  He’s name is Graham Cooke and for those that aren’t familiar with Graham he is…now you don’t like titles Graham but you are a mentor of prophets, you’re a mentor for people to go all the way with God rather than settle for stinking thinking of a religious mindset filled with tradition learned by man.  So let’s find out a little bit about your background, one day you walk into a church, but there was something missing in this church; tell me about that.

Graham: Yeah, it’s actually my very first church experience I’d become a Christian and I had heard the audible voice of God coming from a totally unchurched nonreligious background.

Sid:  As you put it you were the first white sheep in your family.

Graham: Yeah, (laughing) yeah that’s right and so my salvation experience of God was so profound that I heard his audible voice and so of course I have no other, I have no capacity to measure any other way.

Sid: Now tell me your salvation experience; I don’t know about it.

Graham: Well, I got saved in a youth camp and…

Sid:  I mean I had a profound experience but I wasn’t going around hearing the audible voice of God.

Graham: Yes, so I’d come to this camp, I was staying with some people and just looking to really change my life and connect with something different. I had no idea what that was and I’d listen to the message and it had really touched me deeply about Christ as savior, but I just had no paradigm for it so I didn’t go forward because I was thinking, “I don’t know what this about.” And I don’t know what I’m committing myself to and I was a little bit wary so I escaped the meeting and I went for a walk and then came back to the camp and latter on when everyone was in bed sat in the original meeting tent and in the end I said out loud, “Well, Lord if Your real then make Yourself real to me because if that is true I want to get to know You.”  And then I heard this audible voice, I looked around in the tent there was nobody there and the voice just said, “I’ve been looking forward to meeting you for a long time.”  And it didn’t sound like anyone’s voice I knew and I looked around and I walked around the tent and I couldn’t hear anybody so I sat down and I thought “Well, maybe I’m catching a snatch of conversation from somewhere else.”  And so I come back just saying “Well, Lord you know I need to get back focusing on this thing so if Your there make Yourself real to be because I don’t know what’s true and what’s not true but I just know my heart was really touched.”  I can’t remember the exact words I used but that was the expression. Again I heard this voice saying “I’ve wanted to meet you for a long time and you and I are going to go on a journey together.”  And it just suddenly struck me that “Oh, my goodness” I just foolishly said, “You’re going to think this is really dumb but I don’t know what to say, is this God?”  It’s almost like you know “Earth to Heaven I don’t know what to do I don’t know what to say and I heard this just quiet laughter.”  “Of course it is and you and I were going to go on a journey and it’s going to take your whole life and your life will be completely different.”  And just began speaking to me about who I was going to be, what I was going to do and that there would be painful times, difficult times but He would never leave me nor forsake me.  And Sid I didn’t know what to do with myself I have to say, but that really began my journey.

Sid:  So you must have been so excited going to your first church, what was it like?

Graham:  Yeah because I had had a few days in the camp and I’m trying to explain to people I heard God’s voice and just at the youth camp an everyone’s really skeptical thinking “Am I having some kind of meltdown or something.”  And so… but every time I walked away and I began just to have times with God I would hear His voice, I would hear His voice audibly or I would heard His voice like in my heart coming into my head; and so I would hear it on the inside and I would hear externally.  And so this was a normal thing for me so I remember I got back home; I was so excited I bought a Bible, a notebook, I went to my first church service, I just picked the church that was closest to my home.  And I’m walking down the street and I’m talking to the Lord so excited and I get into the building and I lose the presence of God.  So I’m in the foyer of this church and I can’t feel God’s presence.  So I look around and Sid this is where I’m as green as grass okay, I look into the sanctuary, He’s not there.

Sid:  You must have panicked.

Graham: Well, I got back into the foyer and I look and there’s the men’s rest room, so I’m just stupidly thinking “Ah, he’s in there.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Graham: So I’m 19 years old, an experience that’s radically changing my life and I just have no way of what is the normal way to deal with this.  And so I’m waiting outside, nobody talks to me at all so eventually it’s 5 or 6 minutes and I’m getting really concerned about God in the rest room so I remember sticking my head inside the restroom and I’m calling out, “Are you okay?”  But he’s not in there.

Sid:  Did you really do that Graham?

Graham: Honest I just have no, I mean I’m as green as anything, I don’t know what to do.

Sid:  Are you okay?

Graham:  Are you okay? And there’s nothing, He’s not there so I walk back on to the street and there He is.  So I’m saying “Are You not coming in?”  And He said to me, “Well, I’m not welcome in that place.”  And so I said, “If you’re not going I’m not going.”  And we walked home and that was it. (Laughing)

Sid:  So obviously you didn’t know where to go, but then you had another dream that told you where to go, tell me about that.

Graham: Yeah, it was a while later I had managed to kind of get myself thrown out of most churches in the city because people didn’t have a paradigm for what I was experiencing. So I’m starting to realize that what I’m reading in the Bible is actually not what I’m seeing in terms of church.  And so I’m talking to the Father about this, “So what do I do I feel like a fish out of water, I feel like I don’t connect anywhere.”  And then when I had a dream about walking down a certain road and there was a house and I looked at the number of the house, in the dream I went and rang the doorbell.  And I had an encounter with the person who was the house owner. The next night I had another dream that same road, but different house had an encounter with that person.  And so after two of those dreams I went and found a map of the city and this road isn’t on any map of the city so I said to the person who owns the store, “Is this an up to date map?”  And he said, “Well, it’s up to date but it doesn’t have anything that’s being built on the last twelve months.”  And so I went down to city hall found an up to date map and there’s this road. So I took a bus across town and there’s the road in my dream exactly as I saw it; all the houses exactly as I saw them.  So I started walking down this road and I came to this house, the number and I in the dream my encounter with the people there was there was a women whose husband had left her, she had a 6 year old son, who was incontinent, he was constantly bed wetting, she had a baby and her washing machine had broken down.  And in the dream I laid hands on her washing machine and it recovered.  (Laughing)

Sid: So did you become like an actor on the stage and just act out what you saw in your dream, or were you too nervous?

Graham: Well, I didn’t know what else to do and I’m learning that God does like something like when He’s teaching you something new He takes you a step at a time and so you have to take that step before He shows you the next one.  So I had nothing else to do so I went and rang the doorbell and my thing was…

Sid:  You know you got chutzpah, that’s a Hebrew word it’s called nerve!

Graham: (Laughing) Well my thought was if the woman doesn’t look like she did in the dream then I’m just going to make an excuse and leave, yeah.  And so that was my out and she opened the door and it’s exactly how I saw her in the dream.

Sid: I’ll tell you what why don’t you hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.  But I want you to tell me if you had had the book your latest book “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy” when you were first starting what difference would it have made if you could have read such a book as this.

Graham: Oh my gosh, I would have like, I would have grown a heck of lot faster than I did.  I mean I must have fallen down every hole that’s possible to fall down.

Sid:  Describe this book.

Graham: Well, Sid when we started there weren’t any books that described prophesy there was no kind of paradigm for it, most people it seem couldn’t even spell prophecy let alone know what it was.  So all my mistakes were public, you know because you just learn by doing, so for me…

Sid: I wish I had read this book 35 years ago.

Graham: You and me both.

Sid:  I have to tell you because I have a real prophetic bent in it but I was taking it more Old Testament than New Testament.

Graham: Yeah, yeah, that’s the normal way actually most people…

Sid: I mean I thought I was John the Baptist.

Graham:  (Laughter) So for me the benefit of the book is that people can benefit from all the mistakes I made.  You know when you do something for the first time you learn how not to do it.

Sid:   But listen, I after 35 years just reading a little of the book and then the notes I’ve benefited immensely.

Graham: But it tells you clearly it tells you what you’re going to learn in this chapter, it then lays out a pattern of teaching on a particular topic and then there are lots of exercises and assignments you can do.

Sid: its true mentoring and we don’t have mentoring by men and women that have walked the walk.

Graham: Yeah, so if you do the exercises it leads you into an actual experience.

Sid:  My guest all this week has been Teresa Griffith Hurlbert; now Theresa prophesies with instruments; she plays 8 different flutes, harp, other instruments. Then after she prophesizes she will then interpret it.  A CD used all over the world that people are getting physically healed; they’re supernaturally their blood pressure’s become normal, pains are disappearing; they’re people that have had insomnia for years; they’re using the music in public schools to help children that are ADD, or have autism.  Theresa people see these results but they don’t know what happened to the vessel.  You where raised as a Christian in fact at a young age at 16 you were prophesying and preaching you married a Christians man you were going to live happily ever after; that’s not the way it was written; what happened?

Theresa:  Well, I just entered into a time a quarter of a century actually of abuse and most of it was verbal but physiological and emotional in other areas that I’d rather not say right now.  I don’t want to you know bring pain upon him I want to be careful I want to be his friend and we were even during the 25 years of abuse I studied Elijah House counseling. I learned that to have a spiritual cleansing maintenance the only way to survive things like this.  And I would forgive repent for judging and send a blessing for each I mean everything that was done to give pain to me.  So even at the end of the century I still was his friend, I still could show love and we parted in a very beautiful point to the point that our lawyer had tears in his eyes and he said, “God must be so proud of you.”

Sid: You really went out of your way not to have a divorce because it was against your theology even to the point of taking abuse that no spouse should have to take.

Theresa:  Right.

Sid: How did you eventually make that decision to leave him?

Theresa:  Well, I had made a vow that I would never be divorced because being a woman in ministry is hard enough, but divorced woman the doors would shut for me and I just wanted to do whatever I could to make it work and I couldn’t I couldn’t do it all by myself.  And we went to 10 different counselors and they all said “It isn’t going to work so you need to leave” and I didn’t want to listen to them; so the Lord sent prophet’s to me in a period of about a month’s time I had about 5 different ones come and all spoke into my life things they couldn’t possibly know and said “You’re free to go.”  And I said “But I can’t because I made this vow.”  And finally I heard the Lord say “Would you rather be divorced or dead.”  Because I’m writing a book about how verbal abuse impairs the immune system according to Proverbs.

Sid: But what was going on with you physically and you had chronic fatigue; you had fibromyalgia, you were bed ridden; you were a very fragile person.

Theresa:  It’s when you live in constant abuse it’s like a plant instead of fertilizer you give it poison or acid, you know. So what happens the organs tighten and they don’t do their job so then you self poison.  That’s what was happening my blood was toxic, I was dying so the organs were shutting down.  So when you live in constant stress and you walk on egg shells and you live in a prison where you have no rights, everything tightens up and cannot work properly.

Sid: How in the world did you survive this?

Theresa:  Well, I just leaned on the Lord with all my might and I spent hours in prayer you know crying out to the Lord for deliverance, strength to make it through.  And like I said the spiritual maintenance that I did of forgiving for judging that I was taught with Elijah House Counseling and just hearing His voice and leading me out.

Sid: Tell me a bit about your music did it come as a surprise that people were being healed; stress was disappearing from people when you would minister, or did you expect that?

Theresa:  It did come as a surprise; I mean I had hope people would be touched and that was my prayer; I was just awed at how far He took it and how each CD you know we have 9 CD’s and each CD has a different healing function.  One is for depression you know several are for healing for emotional trauma that we go through and a lot of the church doesn’t understand that we need healed from the inside out.  When Jesus comes all things become new but if it’s under the rug it’s not under the blood you know.  That’s one thing I’d like to say “People think that if you are physically abused that is something to talk about but if you are verbally abused that’s no big deal.  But actually it’s just the opposite verbal and emotional physiological abuse is much more damaging than physical and takes much longer to heal.  It’s like people who’ve been through the holocaust understands post traumatic stress disorder, understand the wounds of the past that cause nightmares and that you need to be healed of those wounds and go back and have the Lord touch those areas.  But the church a lot of Christians don’t understand that if you’ve been abused you need healing for that.

Sid: Now why is it that sometimes music can get through and years of counseling can’t?

Theresa:  You know that is a gift of God I think and I don’t know why that is but when people listen to my instrumentals all of a sudden it like softens the heart.  People call me a heart massage therapist; it softens the heart and prepares the way for the Great Physician to do heart surgery and it breaks down the walls where they’ve stuffed their issues.  So if they stuff emotional it will cause physical disease so it’s got to be dealt with.  And so that music softens the heart and those walls come down and they go in and do heart surgery.

Sid: Tell me a testimony from either someone listening to your CD or at a live concert.

Theresa:  At a live concert in Michigan I had a terrible night at the hotel where the people besides me were slamming doors all night and I couldn’t sleep. So I prayed all night and the presence of the Lord was so strong on me that when I began to play at the concert I fell on the floor and I have never been slain in the Spirit, I’ve never fallen but that was how powerful the anointing was.  I began to sing to a lady I saw I said “You’re going to be given sight” and the entire church I could hear them gasp and I didn’t know why and I said “You’re going to see yourself in a new way.  And I didn’t even know what I was even saying but she had a tumor behind the eye and it needed surgery. She was resisting surgery she wanted God to do it.  And that day the tumor disappeared she went to the doctor and he verified “It’s gone.”

Sid: I think we have to hear a little bit from one of the two CDs we’re offering.

Theresa playing the flute in a Song from Bliss 

Sid:  Theresa that was from “Bliss.” We’re offering that CD and we’re offering “Lover of My Soul” what is accomplished by people listening to the CD “Lover of My Soul?”

Theresa:  You know I think that as I go all over the world I see the same thing, all over the world that people don’t know the extent, the depth, the height, the width of His love. As they listen their hearts are melted.  They’re eyes are opened for the first time and they experience His love in a deeper dimension than ever before.

Sid:  Do many people report visions of the Lord when they listen to your music?

Theresa: I have to say of our 9 CD’s “Lover of My Soul” is the one that has the most reports of supernatural things that happen; dreams, visions, healings, emotional healings all exciting things.  Even people who say “I’ve never had a spiritual experience before.”

Sid: The same glory that rests on Messiah is going to rest on us and we’re living in that season.  It’s a season in which people are having dreams and visions and being directed by the spirit of God.  So few of God’s children really understand their symbolic dreams. I have on the telephone speaking to her at her office in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida co-pastor of Christian International Family Church, Jane Hamon.  And Jane we’re featuring this week your book “Dreams and Visions” if there’s ever been a time to have a book that is Biblical, practical, full of revelation and practical steps on interpreting your dreams and visions it’s now.  Tell me about a specific dream you had and the affect it had on you.

Jane:  Well, Sid I had a dream several years ago that was a very symbolic dream. What I like to teach people is that there are dreams that are very literal I mean when I say literal I mean you dream them and pretty much what you dream comes to pass.

Sid: Let me tell you about one because it’s my favorite that I’ve had and that is God gave me a dream, and it was really kind of a funny thing because He said, He said to me “Your book will reach more Jewish people than anything you have ever done.”  And I said to God I said “Oh, my testimony book, it’s finally going to take off.”  And He said “No, your book of Jewish testimonies.” And before I could tell God I didn’t have a book of Jewish Testimonies I woke up. I immediately proceeded on this book and today there’s over a half a million of them distributed throughout the world in different languages to Jewish people that did not know the Messiah.  And I am so glad I got that dream Jan.

Jane:  That’s an awesome testimony of how God speaks in a dream, shows you something for the future and how it breaks way open, it releases literally a breaker anointing that breaks the way open for you.

Sid: Jane, I never in a million years would have thought God wanted me to write a book of 10 Jewish testimonies. I figured the world had enough books like that.

Jane: And look at all the affects and the testimonies that have come as a result of that testimonial book because you were obedient to listen to what God said to you in a dream.  You recognized the voice of the Lord and then you didn’t just say “Oh what a great word,” but you actually got up and you moved on it you were obedient to what God was saying.  I think it’s so important today that the church learn to hear and learn to discern the voice of the Lord.  The problem is, is that we have a difficult time sometimes of discerning between what’s a pizza dream (Laughing) or what’s a God dream.  And sometimes it’s very difficult because like the dream that you gave the example of, that’s a dream that’s very literal, I mean exactly what God spoke to you was exactly what happened.  But many times God speaks to us in symbols or in a symbolic form. In other words, little disjointed themes, little disjointed symbols that don’t really seem to mean a whole lot to us. I had one of these several years ago that was very much a symbolic dream and at first glance it didn’t really seem to mean anything to me. I dreamed that somebody… I pulled into my driveway and was alarmed because somebody had plucked up all the grass out of my front yard and had instead planted row after row of turnip greens.  Now that was the whole dream.

Sid: You sure that wasn’t pizza? (Laughing)

Jane:   It sure seemed like pizza (Laughing) It sure seemed like a pizza dream because there didn’t seem to be anything spiritual about it at all.  So I got up and I went to the store and I was getting ready to walk into the grocery store and this little bitty wrinkled old man walks up to me and I’m really not sure today if he wasn’t an angel.  And he pushes a bunch of turnip greens in my face and he says “Do you want to buy some turnip greens?  And all of a sudden my dream came back and I knew that God was trying to get my attention about something. Now I don’t like turnip greens, matter of fact if you put your very best recipe of turnip greens in front of me I will not eat it I just don’t like turnip greens.  So I went back to my car and I said “Okay Lord, what are you trying to tell me about turnip greens, do I have to start eating turnip greens what is the meaning of this dream?” And this is what the Lord said to me, He said “I’m getting ready to pluck up the comfortable and pleasant things in your life”  See that’s what the grass was, the comfortable pleasant things and I’m, going to replace it with things that you won’t like but are good for you.” And it made sense to me because what God was getting ready to do is He started taking me into a season where all those things that I said “I’d would never do” just for any of your radio listeners let me just give you a clue never say never to God because I think sometimes He takes that as a personal challenge. (Laughing)

Sid: Well, I’m never going to say never, but go ahead.

Jane:  (Laughing) I’m never going to say never.

Sid: Never.

Jane:   Another thing that I said was that I’m never going to do God really challenged me on that year and to be honest it was like eating turnip greens.  I didn’t like it but it was good for me. Ultimately what God is after is our walk of obedience before Him.  But it was just a strange little dream but it set a course for me to understand what God’s processes were.  We can talk about being prophetic and we want to know what God is doing with nations and we want to know what God is doing in the face of the earth, but you know what the very first thing about being prophetic is hearing the voice of the Lord for yourself.  Knowing what’s God saying to you and then not just knowing it, not just being a hearer but being a doer, like you were a doer.

Sid: Jane in your book, and this will be so helpful to our listeners right now, you have practical steps to interpreting dreams and visions.  I wonder if you can give us a few of these.

Jane:  Sure, let’s talk about that for a few minutes, the first step really is that we need to pray and ask God to give us a dream before we go to sleep at night pray and ask the Lord.  Sometimes we have not because we ask not, secondly we need to learn to sleep alert or sleep expectantly that might sound funny to some people but we can actually train ourselves to be diligent in listening for the voice of the Lord.

Sid: Isn’t this the faith dimension that’s being exercised?

Jane:  It certainly is and I believe that as we start exercising that faith, faith is the currency of Heaven whenever we stir our faith up God begins to rise up and answer us.  And so we sleep expectantly, that way as soon as we’re awake our mind, our conscience mind is zeroing in on what was just being dreamed.  Then the third step is that we need to be ready for that, we need to either have a pen and paper handy to write it down. I recommend people keeping actually a notebook or a journal if you’re serious about this or even keeping a tape recorder next to your bed if you don’t want to get up and write things down just speak it into a tape recorder so that you don’t forget it. Because it can be the most phenomenal dream and you can roll over and go back to sleep and forget about it. So record what the Lord has given to you.  Then the next day when you’re going about interpreting what the Lord is saying the first thing we have to do is we have to pray, we have say “God you gave me this dream, you were the inspiration for this dream it’s by your spirit so help me to receive the interpretation for this revelation that’s you’ve given to me.”  Next I recommend people to break the dream down into scenes and into symbols and into small bite size pieces. As you go about to put down what you feel each symbol represents and that would be writing down two or three descriptive words that God may give you that may come out of your mind we have to remember that we have the mind of Christ.  If you get stuck we recommend going to the Bible seeing what that symbol is represented in the Bible and even looking it up in a dictionary or in an encyclopedia is not off limits I think sometimes we need to get a picture of the picture that God has giving to us.

Sid: Just out of curiosity does anything come to mind that you actually had to look up in a dictionary and it helped you?

Jane:   Yeah, I’ll give you one that I think is a really clear picture.  A friend of mine name James Ryle wrote a book called “Hippo in the Garden” back in the ’80s. He talks about a dream where he saw a hippopotamus being led into an English garden.  And the Lord spoke to him that the hippopotamus, the most outstanding quality of a hippopotamus is it’s big mouth, right?

Sid: Right.

Jane:  So he began to research that and he shares in encyclopedia because he felt like God says that represented the prophetic move. Now as he actually studied the hippopotamus he found that it was a very dangerous thing, but that because the prophetic I believe very dangerous if people don’t use it in balance.  But that it’s very necessary in keeping the flow of the river because of their ecological function is to stomp out the weeds that are in the river which is what the prophetic does, it stomps out the weeds and keeps the river flowing.  And so it became a very prophetic picture, that particular symbol; I’ve had to look thing up in dictionaries in encyclopedias to gain greater understanding of the pictures that God has given to me even animals or different places that the Lord’s given me.  He’s given me places in dreams that I didn’t even know where they were on the map (Laughing) and have to go an look those up and see what exactly what the Lord is saying about that.  So interpreting the symbol is the point that a lot of people get stuck but my encouragement is to just go in and do it.  A lot of times people won’t even try because they feel like they can’t, but as you yield to the Holy Spirit and draw on the mind of Christ that’s within you God will actually give you the meanings of the symbols. But that’s really not the end, the next thing is that we have to put all the symbols together it’s kind of like pieces to a puzzle and then you have to put the pieces to a puzzle together to say “Okay God now what are you saying in the big picture?”  What is the main message that Your giving me in this and then we have to really just use common sense we don’t force an interpretation, everything needs to be measured against the Genesis to Revelation word of God.  I say this, and this is so important because if what you feel like you’re receiving from your dream or from your revelation contradicts the principles of God’s word you either have a false dream or a wrong interpretation because God will never go against His word.

Sid: And unfortunately a lot of false religions have started that way.

Jane:  Well, exactly I mean even what we’re dealing with in Islam today is as a result of a supposed prophet named Mohammed receiving quote unquote revelation from an angel. Paul was ready for that day he said “Listen if I or an angel from Heaven preach any other gospel than what I’m preaching let him be cursed.”  And so we need to be careful even if an angel from Heaven comes and brings, even if an angel stands before us and gives us revelation it still has to measure against the Genesis to Revelations word of God otherwise we’re going to get ourselves in trouble. Now, another really good safeguard is rally be accountable with the thing that you feel like God’s speaking to you, submit it to your pastor or your spiritual leader. Don’t make any major directional moves or changes without getting some input from your leadership.

Sid: Jane, our time is slipping away…

Sid: Something new is going on. Just recently I got a hold of the latest Barna report and he interviewed Christians and he has found out something amazing.  Just less than a year ago only 1% of adult Christians were attending house church one time a week.  Guess what it’s up to 9% now, and those attending house church once a month is up to 20%.  You know I feel like someone that’s just reporting what God is up to. I have on the telephone a couple that have made a big investment in what is known as the house church movement; the heads of house to house ministry.  I’m speaking to them at their headquarters in Austin, Texas.  Tony and Felicity Dale; Tony I want to…both of you are medical doctors so I imagine this is the last thing in the world the two of you thought you’d be doing at this point in your life.

Tony: Well, actually you’d have to know a bit more of our history.  Felicity and I grew up in the house church movement that occurred across the United Kingdom in the late 60′s and through the 70′s when thousands and thousands of new churches started all across Britain.   

Sid: Now I understand that you were there, I just read about it but I understand this was such a sovereign move of the Holy Spirit that it just before you knew it it just suddenly was springing up.

Tony: That’s completely true you know both in what we saw back in the UK in those days and in terms of what’s happening now.  You cannot point to a person or a place or a book, there’s is just something sovereignly going on all over the place that is being orchestrated by the Holy Spirit.

Sid: And I’ve been reading a part of your education was in other countries; for instance you went to India.  What did you find out there?

Felicity: Yeah, we spent some time in India both in 2001 I think, and 2002 and there was an extraordinary move of God going on.  We met with one particular man, and he had started I think 3½ thousand house churches over the previous 5 years.  Now that’s up to near 15,000 there is an extraordinary move of God with people becoming Christians just all over the place.

Sid: But you know what in my notes this is what’s jumping out to me about your trip to India, you talk about a middle aged housewife who started 50 churches in one year.

Felicity:  Yes, that is correct.

Sid: I mean that’s called in America they get their own television show you know that.

Felicity: Yeah, it is extraordinary, it’s absolutely extraordinary what is going on there and we’re beginning to get reports in other places too so it’s not just in India.

Sid: Okay, you two are as knowledgeable as anyone I know in the house church movement which is a supernatural phenomena that is getting larger I think by the second as we’re even speaking on the air right now because it’s a thing that God is doing.  But why did you give up the wonderful things you were doing in England and come to the United States?

Felicity:  The Lord just led us very sovereignly to do that; we were actually on a plane on the way from America to England and one of us turned to the other and said “Has the Lord been saying anything to you on this trip?” And the other one said “Yes, how about you?”  And it turned out the Lord had spoken independently to both of us that we were to leave what we were doing in England and we were to move to the states. So 6 months later we found ourselves here.  But really with absolutely no idea of what God wanted for us.  We had assumed naively that he wanted us to continue with a ministry that we’d been running in England that worked with doctors and nurses across the country and across many other countries too.  But when we got here that went down like a lead balloon and so we found ourselves in the middle of nine years of really not knowing what God was doing with us.

Sid: And you could not even fall back on your medical practice because you needed more education because of the US requirements.

Tony:  That is correct, the licensing rules preclude our British life system automatically covering us in the United States. 

Sid: By the way before we get to what God really brought you to the United States for, tell me a bit about working with doctors and nurses and people in the medical profession as you did in England.

Tony: Well, back in the 70′s when we qualified in having finished our medical training at Barts Hospital in London it was a time when the Holy Spirit was moving all over the world through what most people would call the charismatic movement. In those days the Christian establishment in Britain was being turned upside down by what the Holy Spirit was doing.  So we helped start this Christian group caring professions concerned to bringing together doctors and nurses and clergy to really explore how the power of the Holy Spirit could enter you know our everyday professional lives, and God was very gracious.  Over the years we started chapters a little bit like Full Gospel Businessmen’s Fellowship in cities all across the UK and then we’d run many conferences right across the United Kingdom to which thousands of professionals came and began to see God moving in power and leading their patients to the Lord.  Demons being dealt with in the medical context; beginning to experience and explore in the realms of healing and dealing with mental illness. So all sorts of exciting things going on.

Sid: Okay you got all these exciting things starting these congregations all over the map, you’re part of a sovereign move of God.  You have a sovereign call by God to come to the United States; you get your income supply pulled away from you so your totally dependent on God because you can’t practice medicine here without taking additional training.  What did you find in the churches here in America?

Tony:  Sid, I’m almost afraid to answer that question.   

Sid: Well, I already know so you can tell me. (Laughing)

Tony: (Laughing) It was an incredible shock to our system. We came and we came into good you know charismatic type churches and we just found ourselves completely adrift and it was certainly not entirely the fault of those churches.  You know God had many many things that He was working in us at the same time, but it was bewildering to go from a place of watching the Lord just touch and bless everything you’re doing into finding ourselves obeying Him and following Him and going straight into the wilderness.  And that’s what it felt like we really felt like He had brought us here to the States and that He had dumped us here and He went back to England and we were stranded.  And those were 9 very difficult years.

Sid: Now you talk about as I do quite often the presence of God in your house meetings. Could you… now we’re making available a book called “An Army of Ordinary People” and it’s 19 stories of ordinary people that have started house churches and why did you write this book?

Tony: Well, you know I’m going to make sure that Felicity answers that question partially because she really is the author of the book, but “An Army of Ordinary People” was written with a specific purpose in mind. That is we’ve become convinced that what God is doing is raising up and army not of superstars, not of the super gifted of the charismatic personalities but ordinary people.  We happen to be doctors, but you know that’s nothing very special from our particular background.  In the book you’ll be reading about grocery store supervisors, you know, teachers, people in factories.  God is taking ordinary people and He’s using them in extraordinary ways.

Sid: Felicity what are you finding the response is when people read this book?

Felicity: Well, the response I think is what we’ve long for along is that they will read a story they can identify with this and they say “I can do that.”  And that’s what our heart has been that ordinary people will identify with one of those stories and just gain the faith that they could do something similar.  

Sid: You know most of us have been trained in the traditional church system where none of us feel were adequate to be able to do something like this.  Just very briefly tell me about one of the millions of inadequate people and what they have done.

Felicity: Well, let me tell you the first story that I wrote about a guy called Hank.  Hank is the… or was, at that stage when he started this the Supervisor of the grocery section of a supermarket.  And he just started a church with I think one of his coworkers and some of his family members.  And the story continues on and others of his family hear what he’s doing and so they start something with them and some of their unbelieving friends and eventually you hear about, during the story you hear about 6 churches that this guy has started.  The sort of punch line at the end is that you realize that at the end the guy has Lou Gehrig’s Disease and he’s done it while his physical condition was being progressively deteriorating you know for the last few years he’s ended up in a wheelchair.  But when you hear about what he’s done with the handicaps that he has you think to yourself “Well, what excuse do I have? If a man like this can do it overcoming the obstacles that he has.  And he was a very shy man, not outgoing at all but God just took him and use him and you know he started these churches which he’s still regarded as a leader of even though he’s confined to a wheelchair and often times bed ridden.

Sid: You know in my notes you point out that entire countries are shaken by individuals in a house church movement. For instance Cambodia, a decade ago they had about 600 people in a church and in ten years they’re up to 100,000.

Tony: Yes and in fact as best we know it wasn’t 600 people in a church it was estimated that there was 600 Christians in the whole country following Paul Pox…   

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah you know it says in scripture “To him who is forgiven much, they love much.”  And Donner didn’t stand a chance to survive; I mean she was literally one of the youngest prostitutes in America; all she can remember as a child were drunken parties and being molested.  Her mother literally because they didn’t have anything to even live on sold her to someone for $200.  And she got married to get out of this kind of life and shortly thereafter she’s divorced with two children.  She get’s into drugs, she gets into witchcraft all this caused violent behavior.  And one dream had a major affect on your life, tell me about that dream Donner.

Donner:   Well, in the middle of practicing all that witchcraft I had a dream and in this dream Jesus came and I was in a bar type scene that was really dark and He said “I want to take you out of this, out of this darkness.”  And I was terrified but when I looked into His eye I’d seen so much love and He extended His hand to me and I took it and I woke up.  The next morning I told my sister I said “We can’t practice witchcraft anymore.”

Sid: Now by the way, had you been reading your Bible during your life up until that point?

Donner: No.

Sid: Had you gone to church much?

Donner: Only when I was forced to as a child two of three times I think in my entire life.

Sid: And how did you know to burn the books on witchcraft?

Donner:  I just knew, I just knew I told her I said “The one that I saw last night is stronger than who we’re serving and I said we need to get rid of all this stuff.”  So we had a book of Acts experience except we’d never read the Book of Acts.

Sid: So you burn this but you really weren’t born again, you just knew Jesus was real and that He loved you.

Donner: Yes.

Sid: And so you kind of regrouped and you became a workaholic; what did you do?

Donner:  Well, I left California and I moved to Texas and I became a waitress and I remarried and that marriage kind of went sour too but any way during that time I started working 70 something hours a week because I was the main support of my children.  And it got more difficult, my son would ask me to go to church he was about 13 then and I’d tell him “No.”  So I didn’t want the kids to be raised in an apartment complex without a Mom for all these hours I work so I moved to Missouri and bought a farm.  Went down to an 8 hour a day job and when I  got rested I felt guilty because I didn’t bring my kids to church or anything or I wouldn’t go so I bought this childrens Bible equivalent to maybe the Living Word you know more like a teen Bible.  And after work I’d read it.  (Laughing) And I said “Jesus this sounds wonderful” you know because I read about Mary Magdalene; I read all these wonderful things that He did and I said “I want You in my heart.”  And I got born again out in the woods on that ten acre farm.

Sid: Well, what affect after-wards?

Donner: Well, it’s just like, it’s almost like water run all the way through my system cool water and I felt so refreshed and everything.  So I call my youngest brother because he only lived maybe three or four hours from me over in Memphis, Tennessee at the time.  And had given me a Bible that I kept in a trunk and I told him I said “Steve,” I said “I just gave my heart to the Lord, what do I do now?”  So he introduced me into a church that satan had his designs on that too because he introduced me into a church that wouldn’t let me join because I was divorced.

Sid: It was a very legalistic religious church.

Donner:  Yes, and I was so excited Sid to be saved though I told them I said “I haven’t even asked them, I said “What will I be at the marriage supper of the lamb.”  And they said “You’ll be our servant.”  And I said “As long as I get to go.”  (Laughing) I was that  excited.

Sid: The devil was not going to ease up on you was he?

Donner: No, no not at all and then I asked them questions I said “Well how come if I can’t join your church you still take my tithe?”  And I said “Wouldn’t my money be dirty.”  And they’d say “Well woman have to be silent and…”  And I said “But there is no male and female in the Spirit, why do I have to be silent?”  I think of the sound of them I was just born again and I actually read my Bible so but I did catch on to one thing and that was praying in tongues and fasting.  The Lord said that “You could do a lot of things if you’d do that.”  So I did I started fasting, praying, but I did not know what all it was doing to me or how it was doing.  So when I did this things started happening even then; you know they wouldn’t let me pray for anybody because I was divorced but my dog had been bit by a copperhead and I prayed for it and it was my first miracle.  It had a big swollen throat and it went down and the dog lived. So they didn’t know what to do with me Sid, (laughing) because I was just so excited and grateful to be born again I would have been anybody’s servant.

Sid: My goodness I sure wish I was a pastor and I had you in my church at that point anyway.  But so you got crushed really by these religious spirits, what happened next?

Donner:  Well next I moved out, my brother Dave stopped by and he started telling me “No you don’t need to divorce your husband and go back to the first one.  He said “Jesus will forgive a murderer don’t you think He’ll forgive you?”  And so I moved to Oregon to join him, but I only got to stay there a few months and I had to move further north but we were all together for a short term and I did catch on more to the praying in tongues and everything.  But then I went further north and I got into another church that wanted me to pray and fast and let them know what was going on with their church, what was wrong with it.  So I told them I said “The Lord said to take the rich man out of your pocket and put Jesus in it.”  And then I got excommunicated if you will.

Sid: The left foot of fellowship. (Laughing)

Donner: (Laughing) And so by then I was pretty bruised, pretty battered and I just kind of fell away for a long time and before I knew it was fifteen years before I saw my brothers or anyone.  It just kind of escalated and went from bad to worse so I fell away and I would cry at night tell the Lord how much I loved Him, I was sorry I wasn’t the woman He thought I was.  But I never blamed God for the things that happened, He was too precious I always thought that it was just that I was too weak.  I didn’t understand the spiritual warfare that we were really in.

Sid: And then a truck hit you; explain that.

Donner: It was a ¾ ton pickup, I was standing in a parking lot and I didn’t see it coming, I had my back to him and it knocked me fifteen feet out.  I ended up over 200 shattered bones, they said I’d lose 85% use of my wrist, it snapped my knee in two and it bopped the disk out of back, misaligned my jaws and messed up my short term memory. (Laughing)

Sid: I don’t think you should have survived.

Donner:  No they said that there was three other accidents like your of the same type in pedestrians being hit by vehicles like I was and they died so I was very very fortunate.  God still had His hand on me.

Sid: How much, Donner can one person take?  What happened next?

Donner:  Well, I went ahead and I was just devastated through those years I had taken up drinking other things to ease the pain. And I told the Lord, I said “I know that I’ve gone too far, I don’t think you can forgive me.”  And then my son was going through a really hard time and he was fighting for custody of his daughter and I told the Lord I tried to play “Let’s make a deal.”  I said “Lord I said “I’ll serve You all my days if you just let us win Jessica she doesn’t deserve to be in a home of drugs and New Age.”  And then it was so sweet you know He had me praying and reading.  I reread my whole Bible again and praying and I worked through alcoholism at that time I got totally delivered of it and He delivered me from smoking.  And then I told Him I said “Lord You are so good but during that time I was praying to win her He started ministering to me how much He loved me and He would have done it just because He loved me I didn’t have to pray “Let’s Make a Deal.”  It was wonderful and we did get custody of her but in the process even though my son and his wife never got back together I did get her born again.

Sid: But how did you find out about your brother in Tulsa that by that point was a minister?

Donner:  (Laughing) It was miraculous really I was doing a cleaning business at that time.  

Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that thought.  Mishpochah today God uses Donner in a such a powerful fashion to set captives free, but one of the keys for her freedom your freedom. For her walking in her destiny; if she could walk in her destiny you can walk in your destiny was praying in tongues.

Sid: My guest is certainly red hot for the Messiah her name is Mary Jo Pennington and she is the grandmother of a little girl 4½ years of age Victoria.  She is now 7, but when Victoria was 4 ½ years of age she should have died; there was an accident at the swimming pool. She literally fell 9 feet onto cement, should have died but angels caught her.  Big, as she puts it “Six big, big, big angels,” and since that time she’s been caught up into many visitations into Heaven seeing things in the spirit realm.  There are so many experiences in the brand new book. I’ll tell you one that fascinated me and Mary Jo’s family calls her Ma Jo so I’ll call her Ma Jo. Ma Jo when she was caught up into Heaven and she saw things around the throne of God her descriptions and mind you it’s a 4 ½ year old girl her descriptions read just like the Bible. Tell me some of the things she saw that come directly from the Bible that there’s no way she could have known.

Mary Jo: Well, when she first went into the throne room she said “There was some things in there that scared her that had lots of eyes.”  And she said “They had lots of wings and made lots of noise; she said they had lots of faces on their face and one was like a man and one was life a whiskery cat and one was like an eagle and one was like a cow.  And their legs went straight down and there did not have toes like us their feet did not have toes.”  And that was the way she described the living creatures that they made lots of noise and they scared her very badly.

Sid: And this is described in Ezekiel.

Mary Jo:  Exactly.

Sid: And is there any way she could have known this?

Mary Jo:  Not at all.

Sid: Four and one half I mean that’s quite a description.  And then about a week later after this tremendous miracle she should have dead in fact I read in your book she should have been dead a number of times.  But after this tremendous miracle tell me about going to the family member’s grave site.

Mary Jo:  Yes, we went to put flowers on my mother’s grave and we were there in the cemetery and she sat down by an old tree and then she would get up and go look at this little grave and then she would go sit back down.  Then she came over and got her mother and she said “I’ve got to find a little boy’s grave.”  Now up to this point we had not really taken what happen to her very seriously accept that it was a miracle that she wasn’t killed. We thought she just saw angels and God and that was it; we didn’t know the depth of what she learned.  But she said “I’ve got to find this little boy’s grave” and Sandy said “Why?”  And she said “That I met him in Heaven and he wanted me to find his father.”  And so she walked all over the cemetery and could not find it and Sandy said “Well, let’s go and come back another day.”  And she said “No, the tent will be gone” and she said “What tent?”  And she looked and there some of things where there was a recent grave was on the canopies and so they went, now they had something to look for and they searched all around and they saw one pass Granny’s grave up past it and they drove back around.  It was a huge cemetery, drove back around and she walked up to that canopy and turned her back to it and looked out over the cemetery as though getting her bearings, as though she had seen this like from some distance away.  And then she walked straight back to that little grave by the oak tree and she said “What does that say?” And the mother said “Honey, it’s a name of a little boy, his name is Michael and he was killed a year ago.”  And she squatted down took two cars on the grave and she tried to show us then what happened.  And we said “No, no let’s go, let’s go.”  So we got in the car and left and she went with us on a trip and the second day on the road her mother called, Sandy called and said that her brother Bubba had gone out and gotten a name of the grave and she said, “Ask her what the color of car was that Michael died in?” because she told us he died in an automobile accident.  And she said “It was red.”  And her mother said, “Man I’m getting goose bumps because he did die in a red car.”  And she said “Ask her how it happened.”  And she told us that the car was forced off the road by a big monster truck with lump lump tires.  It’s not in the book but she actually told us what was painted on the side of the car of the truck, it was like she described everything that was on the truck.  And so the truck forced the car off the highway, it hit a cement culvert and another car turned upside and hit a tree she called it a cement thing.  She didn’t know what culvert means, but it hit a car and a cement thing and then it turned upside down and landed against the tree.  And it actually; the newspaper account were exactly as she said except they did not know why it left the road, they didn’t know about the lump, lump tires or the monster truck.  And we can’t really give that description because if this case were open she would be at risk.

Sid: I’m reading at page 23 of your book and this is from the newspaper account and I’ quoting it says “The old red car,” get that red “The old red car flashed by heading in the opposite direction, the officer figured it was the same car he had stopped before and wheeled around to check it again; but the car dashed north and disappeared. The officer didn’t give chase.  A short while later for reasons still unknown the car drifted off the road, it hit a concrete culvert, went airborne, struck a parked vehicle, overturned, hit a tree and finally came to rest on the roof.”  And you’re saying that she actually knew how the accident occurred, the police didn’t know according to this report.

Mary Jo: That’s right, they didn’t know and we’ve been pretty vague about we had to pick out the towns and the roads and everything because we didn’t.. 

Sid: In the book, and in one of the newspaper accounts it mentioned something about his parents had a custody battle over Michael; explain that and explain what he told her in Heaven.

Mary Jo:   When her mother said “Why do you have to find the father?”  And she said “Because there is another one.”  Well, we didn’t know what she meant, but when we found these newspaper accounts and started reading them they were in a custody battle and there is a little girl a year older than him and that’s why they meant there is another one. He wanted us to try to find the father of which we were never able to do.  But he wanted the father to keep the little girl because it was in his mother’s care and the person she was living with that was intoxicated and on drugs is the reason why he was killed and didn’t want to put his sister at that risk.

Sid: And I mean I find this fascinating in that same Chapter 4 Michael told you grand-daughter when she was in Heaven that He had been mean to some kids at school. Tell me about that.

Mary Jo:  Well, he didn’t have to tell her; when she would be in their presence God – Jesus would somehow let her see and be involved in the accident.  She was actually there and this was another one of those things where like a TV and they come out and are real.  Because actually there she heard him saying “God forgive me.”  And she knew what he was – she was actually there and could see the accident and knew that he was praying for forgiveness because he had been mean to kids at school.  Every one of the deaths of all of these children she was there when they died and she saw it happen. 

Sid: So you’re saying when he was…just before he died he was asking for forgiveness?

Mary Jo:  Yes he was.

Sid: My goodness.

Mary Jo:  Yes he was even though he was a little boy he knew he needed forgiveness.  And I’m not saying he wouldn’t have gone to Heaven, but his own heart turned to God at the last moment. 

Sid: Hmm, now she’s had visitations from two very very famous angels Gabriel and Michael tell me about that.

Mary Jo:  Yes, her mother asked her if angels ever talked to her because she’d only been telling us about what they do and not what they say.  And she said, “Sometimes.”  And so she said “Sometimes that two of them came to her and they were really really loud this one was really loud” and said to me “Jesus is looking at you and also God!”  Well, this is part of the time when she was going through the fear of God, well he was really putting her through it to fear Him and not the demons.  And that whole story will be explained in the book but she said that “He had, one was a golden angel, he have shiny white robe and a golden belt and his face shines and his eyes are like fire.”  And they told her about the beginning and he told her about Adam and Eve, and he told her most carefully he told her a lot about the old people to take care of them and be kind to them.  And we said “Why is that important?”  She said “Because they get sick and they die and they have to turn to Jesus because they don’t have anybody else. At the end you know they have to turn to Jesus.  And so the golden angel was teaching about the beginning of time.  The other one was Mikey, she called him Mikey he was sort of like an angel man and he was handsome and he was like a warrior angel because he had on armor and stuff and she said he was on a big horse.  And she like these two angels but they scared her because they were so loud and so big; and I said “Do you mean Michael?”  She said “No, Mikey.”  I said “How do you know their names are Gabriel and Mikey” She said “Because God told me they were.”

Sid: Do you think this is the same Angel Michael that we read about in the bible?

Mary Jo:  I do, yes. 

Sid: I do too and I can see a 4 ½ year old calling him Mikey (Laughing)

Mary Jo:  (Laughing) Even tried to describe him before.

Sid: Ma Jo when people read the book that have had loved ones died, does it bring comfort to them?

Mary Jo: Yes it does if their relatives that died knew Jesus they will be so happy to read about the descriptions of Heaven and how wonderful it is and how happy they are.  

Sid: Your granddaughter had a visitation also to Hell.

Mary Jo:  Yes she did.

Sid: And it’s so amazing the terminology that she uses when she describes, what does she call demons?

Mary Jo:  Enemies.

Sid: Enemies.

Mary Jo:  Yeah, she calls them enemies; when she went down h the bad place what she actually said was “She wished that Lucifer had stayed in Heaven and not been thrown down” because she saw him thrown down because she was able to go back to the beginning of time with…

Sid: I’ll tell you what this is the most fascinating book you’re ever going to read short of the Bible because of the insight from a 4 ½ year old about these spiritual things.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to not die from this spiritual avalanche that is all set to come on Christians in America and actually throughout the world.  And that’s why Steve Hill who you’ve probably heard of the evangelist that was involved in the Brownsville Pensacola, Florida revival that saw over 4 million people come into experience the presence of God.  And countless hundreds of thousands if not a million have made professions of faith throughout the whole area and he had a vision.  He was supposed to die but God had mercy and restored him and he had this vision and he has to shout it from the rooftops he has to have everyone know that the avalanche is coming.  His brand new book it’s not in the bookstores yet, briefly recap what that avalanche was in the dream and then tell us more.

Steve: In the open vision it was in full color early in the morning. What I saw was a resort a beautiful resort.  Everyone was happy restaurants, ski shops and then everyone went to their hotels outside of a few men and it was about 20. They hopped on helicopters and they hoped on snowmobiles and manned anti-tank weapons and because there was a snowfall coming in it was almost a blizzard that was coming down.  And they knew that if they did not destroy this snow that many people would die.  Now the skiers like today’s Christians are oblivious to much of the teaching, and the skiers are oblivious to the snowfall because the snow looks like snow.  The Bible says angels—the devil comes as an angel of light and so he’s going to come in and it’s all going to look good he will tickle your ears, he’ll make you happy and that what was happening in this vision.  They began after the snow fell blowing up the mountains, they began shooting shells.  And I want to share in this broadcast if this is the first time to heart this vision I want to share with you a conversation that I had immediately after I had the vision I contacted Colorado ski patrol because I wanted to know what was I seeing and was it valid.  Was I seeing something that really happens?  So here’s the overriding problem; the overriding problems we’re allowing teaching and we feel in our spirit brother Sid that it’s wrong and we’re allowing it to come down and down, and down.  And that’s what I said in the title that could kill millions, I put could in there because I don’t want it to happen.  And I know that if we man our posts as the ski patrols man their posts then we can stop it from killing the spiritual lives of millions of people.  And I had a call, let me share with you one more thing, I had a call from the eastern block nations.  They call me up and they said “Pastor Hill, I’m in a large church, I’m the pastor we have 2,000 members and this is from Siberia and would you do me a favor?”  And I said “What do you want?”  And he said “First of all I want you to come here and preach, and second of all would you stop all the teaching that is pouring in from your country and other western type countries, it is destroying our church and our people.”

Sid: I can’t … it’s beyond my comprehension when I hear what I hear and on Christian TV, and Christian books, and Christian radio. It’s because it’s like candy it seems like the masses are buying this false teaching.

Steve: Well, why should we be surprised Sid and for those that are brand new in the Lord if you read the word it should come as no surprise this is all going to happen. It’s going to happen in the last days. When I talk about it this book is an educational book it’s now a mean book, I’m not running around bashing people, but I’m talking about things like the deification of man; lifting up man as god.  All over the world you can see this happening right now where pastors are being elevated.  If the pastor said it I believe it, rather than seeking the scripture to see if the Spirit of the Lord is in this people just jump in.

Sid: You know most Christians are not reading their Bible every day, if Christians’ were reading their Bible every day they wouldn’t fall for these things.  I mean if the Bible says one thing, and the teachers are saying another.  Give me a list of some of the areas you’re covering in the book of false teaching.

Steve:  I’m talking about what I just mentioned the deification of man which is lifting up man as a god and you don’t have to be a scholar to understand that.  Then I talk about universal reconciliation and we cover this thoroughly okay; we just don’t jump on it and run off.

Sid: That means that everyone even the devil gets ultimately saved.

Steve: Everyone, everyone gets in and then we talk about how the teaching, modern day teaching is challenging the validity of the word of God.  Now one of my good friends if I mentioned his name everyone would know who he was, one of my good friends just got back from a major nation. He said “Steve, it is spreading all over the country, they are teaching that there are no judgments, there is no great white throne judgment; there’s no judgment seat of Christ and there’s is no “Once to die and after this the judgment.”  He said “They’ve already gone through the submissive and the fun and the party grace message, now they’re going into the judgment.”  He said, “They’re picking apart the word of God, taking what they want to eat and spitting out the rest.”  And it’s our job Sid, I’m going to raise up my voice, I mean I’m not going to…

Sid: But you know here’s the problem people don’t know the Bible that well, they hear teaching; it sounds wonderful, it makes them feel good because it’s feel good teaching and it’s almost like.  They don’t even tell what they really believe, you have to get into their books to find it out and it’s almost a pied piper but by the time you’re hooked it’s too late.

Steve: One pastor said in the area he taught this in his pastor’s school I know because we sent some of our pastors to this school. He said, “When you’re pasturing don’t ever let the people know what you believe.”  He said, “Just get them in and get them out, don’t ever let them know what you believe, later on you can talk more about but don’t that but don’t them ever know what you believe. That means no blood, no cross, no altar calls, no you know “It’s appointed unto man once to die and after the that the judgment,” and you know the rapture all this.  Don’t talk about any of that.

Sid: And by the way that’s what I’m saying to you, they are just talking about what people want to hear, and it’s not…many of them it’s now what they’re saying, it’s what they’re not saying.

Steve: Exactly, there is a chapter in the book called “All the words in red.”  Now I happen to have a copy of a book called “The Red Letters.” Now there is an old, old book called “The Word’s in Red.” I think that’s the title, I’m trying to find it because you know Sid I collect old books, I’ve got 4,000 old books, I just love them.  But if you read the words in red, I had devotions today in this book just the words in red, now it’s all Bible and yes in the Old Testament, God spoke also and yeah that should all be in red.  Theologians I’m not there with you just relax okay, I’m not here to fight with you; I’m just saying these are the things Jesus taught and if pastors would just teach what Jesus taught we would see revival in this nation;  no doubt about it.

Sid: Steve tell me why you’re so concerned right now, I had a dream I know Jesus is coming back soon, I know that He told me “He is coming back soon.”  Now every generation has said “He’s coming back soon.”  But we’ve never had a generation like this that has seen so much Bible prophecy fulfilled.

Steve: Ever!  The prophecies are being fulfilled, you do not have to be a scholar to see the signs and there’s another chapter in the book “The Signs of the Times.”  And it all had to do with skiing and Christianity, okay the parallels are going to absolutely blow your mind, you’ll not only enjoy them, but your mind, your spiritual mind will be so filled with truth.  And I just want to somehow Sid you know what I’m talking about I just want to get this to the people’s heads and say “Listen, listen because there is not much time left.”  Let me say one more thing, do we have a half of a minute?

Sid: We have more than that, go ahead.

Steve: I called the Colorado ski patrol after I had the vision, I called a friend up in Colorado, she lives in a major resort and in an hour the ski patrol called me back.  And I began walking around the kitchen with my phone listening to this young man talk about his job as a ski patrolman.  And he said “Mr. Hill everything that you heard, everything that you saw in what you call a vision,” and it was obviously that he didn’t know the Lord; “But everything that you saw is everything that happens here. He said, “The vacationers are …they come in here and they want a perfect resort.”  Just like people want a perfect church, “They pay their dues, they pay for the hotels and all.”  And then I’m going in my mind, we pay our tithes, I’m just looking at all you know we expect a nice comfortable church to go to.”  And then he said this Sid he said, “Mr. Hill, can I say something to you, he said personally I man an anti-tank weapon.  He said “My shells shoot 5 miles into the mountains. He said “We destroy everything,” and then he said, “We destroy all the avalanches.” And then he said this “Do you want to know why people die in avalanches?”  And I was already weeping Sid, I was crying my eyes out, and my cell phone was soaked.  He said “Do you want to know why they die, because they don’t listen to me and his voice began to crack, he said “I warn them not to go, but they go anyway they’re arrogant .

Sid: Steve, I’m sorry we have to stop here we’re out of time.

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. Boy do I have a red hot for the Messiah couple on the phone. They’re from Jerusalem, Israel. I have Ayelet is in Nashville, Tennessee right now, and her husband Sean is in Los Angeles. Ayelet and Sean Steckbeck… Sean before we went on the air you and your wife move in supernatural gifts of the spirit in Israel; equip and disciple these young Jewish believers, in the power of God; which I am so thrilled over your ministry, and the little that I do understand about it. But you said something that is soooo important it’s almost a prophetic mandate from the heart of God about churches that either move in the power of God, or want to move in the power of God. Tell me that.

Sean:  Yes I really strongly believe that each one of us personally have what is called the priesthood of the believer, but there is also personal destinies, there’s national, and city wide destinies. I believe Israel is the key to seeing revival break out in a city, or a nation because it is almost like Israel has a priestly calling among the nations. If we want to see our cities change, if we want to see our nations change, we need to respect the priestly role of the common, what I call the common wealth of Israel; in which all the nations answer to the mother ship or Israel. I strongly believe if we want to see an increase in the power of God there has to be a divine connection between our nations, and our cities, and the leaders of the congregations, and the churches, in the cities to Israel.

Sid:  You know what I’ve seen there are a few churches around the United States that are known for healing, where they’ve actually had major types of revivals, and they do understand the Jew in Israel, or some do and some don’t. It isn’t an emphasis with them, and the thing that I’ve noticed is, although people come from all over the world to these churches, they have not affected their own city. Their own city is backslidden and ungodly as any other city in the world. I believe if they took to heart what you just said that’s the missing link.

Sean:  Yes. I totally agree with you that that is the missing link to see our cities changed. It goes from personal revival, to church revival, to city wide revival. In that link to city wide revival I’m seeing cities change, it’s linked to Jerusalem where the King is going to sit on His throne, and where the government of God is you know in place.

Sid:  Tell me what your experience is in reference to my book “They Thought for Themselves” in Hebrew. What do you and your teams do with that in Jerusalem?

Sean:  Well we pass that out in the streets we like to do a lot of evangelism. That’s one thing Israelis are known for is evangelism. When they get saved they’re almost immediately… there’s an old joke that Israelis start evangelizing before they get saved. [Laughing]

Sid:  By the way, this is why when churches get Jewish believers and they start observing the Biblical festivals in freedom not in religious bondage, but in total freedom. There’s going to be a spark that is going to be lit in churches that I think is going to ignite the churches. Sean you told me a funny story. You were speaking in a Messianic Jewish synagogue where the people did not believe in miracles and what happened?

Sean:  That was funny they asked me to speak only about Israel. So I came in to speak about Israel, and a lot of these were Christian Zionist, from like Baptist and Nazarene background that just came to a Messianic synagogue. I was in the middle of message and my ear started burning and I heard the Holy Spirit say “Right ear, right ear.” I tried to ignore it the Holy Spirit would not let, and I said “Can I stop?” So he said “Okay.” I said “There’s somebody here with a right ear problem” and basically they came forward I prayed for the ear, just like it went into total like awesome Holy Spirit meeting. People on the floor laughing and shaking under the power of God, and like 4 people were healed that day. I went up to the pastor afterwards and I said “I promise I didn’t mean to do this.” [Laughing] It was the Holy Spirit, and when the Holy Spirit has an agenda for congregations that love Israel He’s going to see it get fulfilled.

Sid:  Recently you’ve been praying for people to move in words of knowledge such as you move in words of knowledge. I wonder if you would pray for people… I don’t think you’ve ever done this before you probably normally lay hands on people, but tell me about a meeting where you did this.

Sean:  I was in a Feast of Tabernacles conference this year in where I was the speaker together with a guy named David Drilink. The Lord just told me “Don’t preach open up the microphone and facilitate it.” So I opened up the microphone and people just started giving words and words of wisdom, and words of knowledge, and prophetic words. There was huge outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and then the Holy Spirit spoke to me afterwards and He said “If we give the power of God to the people and not hog for ourselves as leaders, then there’ll be a greater increase in revelation and in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit around the world.”

Sid:  Well this is the Shabbat broadcast and I normally pray a blessing, then I have a recording of Paul Wilbur praying the Aaronic benediction. I am going to pray in English, and Ayelet I want you then to pray in Hebrew Aaronic benediction, and Sean then I want you to pray for a release of the gifting. Okay?

Ayelet: Sid?

Sid:  Yes?

Ayelet:  Can I say something short I really feel in my heart?

Sid:  Please.

Ayelet:  I have just coming from my heart as an Israeli believer saying to Christians that listen to this radio show, if God gave you a heart for Israel please remember we are the remnant of Israel, the believers in Yeshua in the land. Without your prayers, without your support we cannot do what we do. It’s to bring Messiah Yeshua to our land, and to our people.

Sid:  I agree. Let me tell you something, this couple is handpicked by God. I want to pray in English and Ayelet you pray in Hebrew:

The Lord bless you and keep you; Oh the Lord cause His countenance to shine upon you, and be gracious to you; The Lord lift grant you His shalom His completeness in your spirit, in your soul, and in your body. In the name of the Sar Shalom the Prince of Peace Yeshua haMashiach Tsidkenu, Jesus the Messiah our righteousness.

I believe as Ayelet prays this in Hebrew there is a blessing that is going to be deposited on you, then sealed as Sean prays.

Ayelet:  Y’varechecha Adonai vah’yish-merecha;

Ya’er Adonai panav elecha veehunecha;

Yisah Adonai panav elecha v’yasem l’cha shalom.

Sean:  Father we just pray right now in the name of Yeshua the Messiah, Lord first of all we pray that a deposit will be made to the people listening to this broadcast of the word of the Lord from Zion, and law of the Lord from Jerusalem. We ask for a deposit of miracle signs and wonders of revelation Father, and of supernatural encounters with God. We ask Lord that you would touch the people that are listening right now, even now Father take them to the 3^rd heaven just give them everything they need, all the tools they need to win Jewish people to Messiah and make them jealous as well as their nations and their cities. In the name of Yeshua the Messiah.

Sid:  Amen. I don’t know about Ayelet or Sean, but I can tell you for me that as they prayed I started travailing in my Spirit, something good is going on. I’m reminded of the word that you had a number of years ago Ayelet, and the Holy Spirit said to you “Everything is going to be alright.” I say that to everyone listening. If you’re in Messiah; if you’re sold out to Him; if you’re living according to the word, if you’re repenting all known sin, everything is going to be alright. I had a question for you Sean, is it dangerous or even illegal to be preaching the gospel in the streets in Israel?

Sean:  It’s not illegal, but it is dangerous. Sometimes we have… we’ve seen a lot of persecution in the last couple of months especially in Arod, and Beersheva. In which bookstores were burned down, they even through a pastor in a congregation in Beersheva into his immersion pool, his baptismal pool, and threw chairs at people. It’s very dangerous; it’s not illegal, the only 2 things that are illegal is preaching or changing the religion of someone under 18 years old, or two, bribing someone to receive the faith. So feel free to preach the gospel on the streets of Israel!

Sid:  Ayelet and Sean thank you for being my guest.