Sid: I have on the telephone Rick Joyner he’s the director of Morningstar Ministries; Author of the bestselling series “Final Quest.” I’m interviewing him this week on what I consider the most significant book he has ever done for such a time as this. It’s called “The Power to Change the World.” Rick is a historian at heart and a man of spirit. He’s combined the best of both to put a prophetic understanding of the 2 greatest revivals in history and what it means for today. What it means for the next revival that’s coming. You say something in your book that intrigues me Rick. You talk about the supernatural unity that people had when they were in the manifest presence of God with such a tangible fashion. They would speak to people not so much what they saw on the outside, but they would look at them through the eyes of the Spirit not their natural eyes. Explain what you mean by that.
Rick: Well you know this was seen… I think is one of the testimonies of a true move of God is when people quit looking at externals and superficial things and they start knowing each other after the Spirit instead of the flesh. You know, like Azusa Street they were… Some of the most wealthy people in Los Angeles would come and sit right next to washerwoman, and all the races were all there together. People didn’t even see each other by racial things anymore they just saw each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. They esteemed their citizenship in the kingdom far above any cultural, or racial, or any other kind of relationship they may of had. I think that is in evidence of the true outpouring of the Holy Spirit. You know God loves diversity, and it’s interesting when He poured out His Spirit on the first day of Pentecost. It was when those from every nation were present. Then He spoke to them all in their own language; I mean it’s like… they all heard of the glories of God. I think there’s a special attraction of the Holy Spirit to places where people with differences get along, and you know one of the major human problems when there was just 2 brothers on earth they couldn’t get along. We have problems.
Sid: Maybe that’s what’s going to provoke the Jew to jealousy when there’s enough anointing that we’ll all get along.
Rick: I do believe that. Who the Jewish people have the most trouble with today are their own relatives. You know, many of them through Abraham, but I believe that’s going to change according to Isaiah 19 it’s going to change in a dramatic way.
Sid: Prophetically speaking what do you see going on in the world today?
Rick: Well… you know I see things pretty differently than you get on the news media. For example, I am astonished at how well things are going in Iraq. You know considering that situation I can’t believe how much progress has been made towards democracy and other such things in such a short period of time with so little strife, and so little… I would have expected a civil war to have exploded almost instantly instead of dozens being killed a day; I would of expected thousands to be honest with you. So I do tend to see things a little differently. People do forget history; you know no one thought Japan, or Germany could ever become a democracy. Now they’re two of the strongest in the world, two of the most powerful democracies in the world. We know the saying “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.” It’s tragic we forget that so much, but that’s one of the reasons why I wrote the, what I believe is a prophetic history, and the power to change the world; because I believe those are models those revivals are models of what we’re going to see happen again here.
Sid: Okay paint me a picture of what a church that’s experiencing the manifest presence of the God is going to look like.
Rick: Well I’ve been in meetings where the Lord manifested in a spectacular and supernatural way. Everyone instantly shut up; everyone instantly hit the ground I mean on their faces. I remember in one meeting we stay on our faces for hours, and I literally spent hours trying not to even think a thought because I was so afraid it would be unclean and that I would go up in smoke or something. I mean the fear of the Lord was so awesome because He had manifested Himself in the meeting, and everyone felt that way. It was… God is God almighty when the… even the 24 elders cast their crowns at His feet. I think there’d be something of a total attention upon the Lord. I believe we would… Today you can look in a church service under incredibly anointed preaching people are slouched back, they’re chewing gum, they’re looking around, tying their shoes; I mean if the anointing is the Holy Spirit and God is speaking to us, would you do that to the president if you were sitting and had an audience with the president, or prime minister somewhere, or something like that? Would you fidget, would you slouch in your chairs, of course not. I think one thing we don’t really respect the anointing like we should or discern it, but I think when He comes in in His manifest presence you will for sure see Him get everybody’s attention, and most of them are going to hit the floor. Most of them are going to grovel before Him; He is almighty God. That’s one thing, I mean that’s just one thing… We’ve had quite a few meetings where the anointing would come so heavy even our worship team would want to go down on their knees. I had to talk to them and tell them “Look the Levites had to go on doing their duty in the temple even with the presence of the Lord manifest.” I said “You’re Levites you’re leading the worship of the Lord.” I said “You may want to go down, your knees may be buckling, everything else, but stand up.” That’s why we tell people that come to our meetings… you know how many people feel like they have to be slain in the Spirit, but I think a lot them are being slain in the flesh, they’re just taking a dive and not really being knocked down by the Holy Spirit. Since we need to learn to stand in His presence, but if you’re ministering the presence of the King it’s going to be with all the dignity, and respect, and carefulness. You didn’t mess up in the ministry of the tabernacle or the temple, it was such a holy awesome thing. When the Lord comes in in a little way, just gives us a touch of that, I believe we’re gonna again treat all of His ministry so awesome, so holy everything we do. The ushers, I mean to be an usher in the house of the Lord is better than to be a prime minister of a nation. I mean if we really understood eternity that is the truth. We would treat these things with that kind of dignity.
Sid: You have a description in your book of Evan Roberts, the person God used for the great Welsh revival. When he had a change in his life experiencing the glory of God, tell me about that.
Rick: You know Evan Roberts, he was one thing incredibly hungry for God. There was just a drawing in his heart and he followed that drawing. He didn’t become occupied with other things; he decided to lay everything aside to follow the drawing of God. I think that’s required just like Moses had to turn aside and see that burning bush. We might wonder if Moses had not turned aside would the Lord of used him, or chosen somebody else. It almost always requires that stop what you’re doing and esteem, turning aside to God above anything else. Evan Roberts did that, he just shut down his job, his everything. He said “I’m going to pray, I’m going to seek the Lord revivals coming” he knew it in his heart. He turned aside he left his own agenda in all to pursue God. I think that’s fundamental to see this kind of thing. Then he remained incredibly sensitive to the Lord; like the story you talked about earlier in the week, you know, about how the most famous preachers in the world were coming to see him; the most famous reporters and writings were all clambering for just a little time with Evan Roberts during then. Right at the peak of the revival he just disappears for week and goes to seek the Lord and wouldn’t let anyone come near him. He wouldn’t have an audience with anyone because an audience would get “Who’s going to leave the King of kings to meet with a mere man.” He was meeting with the King of kings.
Sid: I’m reminded of a statement in my lifetime; I saw Kathryn Kuhlman and she would always say “Please, don’t grieve the Holy Spirit He’s all that I have.” She would keep pointing people towards God. She would say “Don’t look at me,” and that’s the closest I’ve seen in my lifetime of that type of “Recognizing we’re nothing.”
Rick: Yes. She’s a good example; she had a remarkable ministry of just providing, being a proper host for the Holy Spirit.
Sid: That’s really what our job is, but we’re out of time.