Sid: Now when I interviewed my guest on television I made a proclamation, that there will be more miracles from this man’s being a guest on my television than we have ever done in history. Well it’s still too new to know, however, I’m going to make that same proclamation now. We are going to have more miracles as a result of this interview on radio, than any guest I have ever had. His name is Charles Ndifon, he’s from Nigeria. I had the privilege of meeting him when we did the television show, but I guess the thing that intrigued me so much about Charles was I got ahold of an out of print book by a Danish journalist, he wasn’t a believer, and he recorded what happened when a secular television station went into one of Charles Ndifon’s meetings and tried to expose it as phony. Now I’m speaking to Charles at his office in Johnston, Rhode Island. Charles tell me about that incident where the television station came in to film miracles taking place, and they actually had a plant.

Charles: Yes, what happened was they were making a series of television programs, and it had to do with the supernatural. They’ve been to the psychics and all the people just to see whether their powers were real. So what happened was when they came at the end of the fourth program they were about to quit because they were about to say that nothing happened supernaturally. So they heard about this African that had come and there were miracles happening. They heard it from the National Television Program, and they’re reporting the program. So they decided to test it and see whether this thing was real. I wasn’t aware of the situation I was just told there some television people that want to interview you. Well they had come in there and they begin to ask “How does it happen? We’ve heard a lot of people make claims, but we really haven’t seen anything like what they say.” So they were saying “How do you prepare for a meeting?” I said “Well I just sit down and read my Bible, listen to some worship music and relax,” and they were very surprised. So they asked me “How does it work?” I said “It’s like the wind that blows you don’t see the wind, but you see the effects of the wind. Same thing with the Spirit of God when He comes into a place, the people’s lives are totally changed; you can see some that are worked in, and the next moment something miraculous has happened.” So at the end of the interview they said “By the way, we brought somebody here who is blind I hope that you can do something about it.” I just thought “Well just let him come to the meeting just like everyone else.” I didn’t know they had the man position with a microphone on him, and they said “Can we put a microphone on you just to make sure we know what is going on?” I guess they were trying to basically find out whether I was going to say something, or somebody was going to tell me something, I don’t know what they were up to. For me I was doing my normal thing. They had been to the meetings except me. What happened was they had begun to interview the sick that were there asking them if it was their first time.  The people would reply “Yeah this is my first time I’ve never been to the meeting before.” They said “What are you expecting?” They said “We don’t know we’ve just heard about it and we came.” They had the camera on this man that was blind and all the camera was on me when I walked into the meeting in usual style I just walked and said “Hi Hi,” and walked right to the front.

Sid: In other words this is a secular television crew that had seen a lot of New Age psychics that were really phonies and they figured well I’m gonna get this Christian. So had you all setup, so again what happened next?

Charles: I immediately said “Somebody is being of this to my right,” and described exactly what it was. It was a man that was crippled and he came up, he’s from Greenland and he came up there. I said “Somebody else is being healed of…” I mentioned exactly what the condition was and I pointed to the lady and she came up to the front. They were very surprised. All of a sudden there were about 10 people that had come to the front. I said “Well Jesus is alive let me show how real He is.” What I did was I just turned around and the first gentlemen I said “Come on let me have your crutches.” Instantly the man was healed he began to scream “Yes, yes, yes” and he began to move his feet, and he realized his feet were totally healed, and he began to walk and the people would clap their hands. I have no idea where the man was that was blind because there were several people that were blind in the meetings. There was this particular man had a patch in his eyes, and I was told there was a man who had his optic nerve cut-off by an accident and he’s been depressed. So I got a moment to teach them the realities of Jesus. After I was done teaching I made a call for those that want to experience Christ’s life, that wanted to receive Jesus. Immediately the people came up to the front, and this gentleman came up to me and said “My vision I had optic nerve cut-off. I said “Oh just come believe the same way everyone else believes, believe the good news you’ve heard, and God will do what he says he will do.”

Sid: This was the plant who was miked.

Charles: I did know who he was. Then I noticed when he was talking with me the television people were very interested you know, all of a sudden the television cameras came very close to see what I was going to do. (Laughing) I told them I was not really going to do much God has done it. Then while they were interviewing others that were being healed they would take them outside, those that were crippled and make them run up and down. Well I had no idea that they were doing this. It was later on when the television program was shown I realized they took the people that were crippled and make them run up and down just to prove these miracles were authentic. I was surprised when found that it was good. What happened was this gentleman that was blind INSTANTLY he got up, the television crew was outside testing people. When they heard his voice screaming “I can see! I can see!” the guy grabbed my shoulders and he said “I can really see.” He was trying to convince me he had been healed.

Sid: (Laughing)

Charles: I say to him “I believe you.” He was very surprised. He said “I can really see! I can see!” He didn’t know what happened it happened so quickly INSTANTLY that he was giggling, and this was the man who was depressed. Totally healed, the television people descended on him and they asked him “Are you really sure?” He said “Yes!” and they checked his eyes, and they checked him, and they checked him and was just perfectly healed. He said “I don’t know what happened it, it happened just like that.”

Sid: You know Mishpochah I have documentation… I mean I can see the picture of the man who had the optic nerve severed; he could see, and it was all setup on television. Now Charles is it true in Denmark there were a hundred thousand verified miracles in your ministry?

Charles: Yes. This is what the secular media said, the secular media said “In 3 years between 2000 and 2003 they had an accounting of at least a hundred thousand people that had been healed just in Denmark alone.”

Sid: I want to take you back to 1987 because you had an encounter with Jesus that was life changing. Tell me about that.

Charles: Yeah what happened was, I was so hungry for His presence, I was so hungry for Jesus. I read the scripture that said “If you love Me My Father and I will come and manifest ourselves to you.” I said “Jesus I love you, I really want to see this become a reality in my life. I had heard about people that had encountered Jesus because I had a hunger and a desire for it. I said “Jesus if you did for them you did it for me.” I was on campus fasting and you know, getting on the word. Then what happened was they were sending us forth on a Saturday afternoon just a normal day, but they were sending us forth to go and preach the gospel around the nations. A gentleman just walked up to me laid hands on me, he had just preached a simple message he was laying hands on all the graduates laid hands on me. When he touched my head and went to the next person immediately. Jesus appeared to me my eyes were not closed, this was about 3:00 in the afternoon. I was looking at Him, it was amazing the moment I saw Him everything else paled in that room. It seemed like I wasn’t standing with anybody else, it was just the afternoon. So it wasn’t like I was dreaming, I’m a very practical person, I like to make sure things are authentic. So what I did was I said “Okay.” When I saw Jesus there the first thought that came to my mind was “I’m so sorry,” I thought I had died or something. Something had happened to me I could not contain His presence. I was “I’m so sorry whatever sin I’ve committed forgive me” as I was going up I noticed His gaze was so full of love. He never condemned me He just looked at me. My body could not contain His presence, I couldn’t contain His presence. So what happened was He looked at me and He said to me “Preach the gospel. As I was with those in the past so I will be with you. If the people would believe what you tell them nothing will be impossible, no sickness will be able to stand against your command.” Then He said “Preach the gospel” again, “Don’t get into argument just preach the gospel.” Then He did something, when He was talking I heard what He said but I wouldn’t say I was frightened, His presence was overwhelming. He wasn’t condemning me, but I felt so unworthy of being in His presence. Then He did something just walked right into my body and I fell like a dead man. I was there for hours; I guess people must have tried to move me; they couldn’t move me. When I got up several hours later I was drenched in my tears I’d been weeping and sobbing and I’d just encountered Jesus, He was so real to me. When I got up I knew the person I proclaimed was not dead He was really alive. Shortly after that I went to the university hospital where 10 cases were left to die, and instantly they were being healed one right after the other.

Sid: Terminal cases left to die…

Charles: Yes.

Sid: How many were healed

Charles: There were about 20 of them there, all 20 of them were healed. The whole ward was discharged.

Sid: Now since that encounter you had with Jesus where He literally walked into you, and He made a promise He’d be with you as He was with those you read about in the Bible. Have there been any diseases or situations such as you read in the New Testament that have been able to stand against the anointing if they believe?

Charles: It’s been amazing what we’ve seen happen. Some of the things I see the miracles occur, the first that comes to mind “I know I’m in His presence. I know no man can do those things.”

Sid: Charles I’m sorry were out of time.

Sid:Now my guests by way of telephone at their home in South Beloit, Illinois Ben and Brenda Peters; they both move in the prophetic.  And I’ve got Ben’s new book called “Prophetic Ministry” which there’s such a strong anointing on this book that, and they’ll be impartation perhaps on tomorrow’s broadcast because the Bible says we all should prophesy.  But one of the things you bring out that is so important Ben is God’s pattern.You’ve done a study that 90% of people that come to the Lord recorded in scriptures came after the person had a clear demonstration of the supernatural power of God.  And we discussed today it shifted to the cerebral; tell me you’ve had several trips to Mozambique, I’ve interviewed Heidi and Rolland Baker.  Tell me some of the things that you’ve seen with your very eyes Ben.

Ben:Well, we’ve been privileged to go into outreaches with Heidi and also with the Director of Outreaches Falito and we have…

Sid:You know Surpisa?

Ben:Oh yes.

Sid:He’s out of all of them he’s the most humble and powerful man of God.

Ben:Yes, my first visit to Mozambique was the Fall of 2004 in November. I was with him quite a bit and I just had an experience with him where he was on the floor he was out he was in a trance and it was dark and they told the Bible college students, or the pastors there that were in training there they told them to get up now and we’re going to dance and people were going to trample on him.  So I picked him up off the ground and just embraced him for a period of about 15 -20 minutes while the rest of them were rejoicing in the Lord.  And during that time he was still in this trance but I was praying God give me everything he’s got.  (Laughing)

Sid:Guess what I think you and Brenda got it I mean what a powerful anointing on this interview.Do you have any idea what he saw in this trance?

Ben:He actually saw something about the man that was head of the Palestinian Yasser Arafat and something about his death, but I don’t know the fulfillment of that it was something about not resurrecting him.

Sid:Well history already records what occurred so that was on target but go ahead.

Ben: He also had a vision during that time for another lady that’s a friend of ours Lisa Brolen from Kentucky and she was there I met her at that trip.  God lead me to prophesy to one of the young men and they all wanted prophecies; these were people that were visiting from Ohio and other states Kentucky and Georgia. God gave me words for them all and they all came to pass which is awesome.  But Surprisa had a vision of her going to Israel and she got to go and was totally blasted and now she’s taking a group of and we’re going too to prophesy to the dry bones of the House of Israel from Ezekiel 37.  I’m going to do some teaching there in a prayer room there in Jerusalem and because God told her to count the chairs in that prayer room when she was led there.  And she counted thirty-seven chairs; she didn’t know what that was about but when she got back to Suprasa she told him and he said 37 that’s Ezekiel 37 you’re supposed to prophecy to the dry bones of Israel.   So we’re on our way to Israel…

Sid:Now by the way with everything going on in Israel aren’t you and your wife a little I mean many Christians are afraid to go to Israel aren’t you a little afraid?

Ben:Not at all; not at all and so secure in being in God’s presence we travel all over the world and…

Sid:You know I have a sister and brother-in-law that live right outside of Haifa and they wouldn’t want to be anywhere else but Israel right now.

Ben:Wow.

Sid:Why because God’s called them so they don’t have a fear of anything and that’s what you say; God’s called you. (Laughing)

Ben:No I’ve never worried about any place that God’s called me to.

Sid:Now tell me some of the miracles that you saw in Mozambique.

Ben:Oh we had seen as many as four deaf and dumb people healed in one service in one outreach in one village and the exciting thing is how they respond.  They show the Jesus film and then they share the gospel real quickly and people respond and then the people are getting healed. Whole villages are coming to Christ and I’m sure you’ve heard from Heidi but it’s happening over and over again.

Sid:Are many Muslims’ coming to the Lord there?

Ben:By the thousands, by the thousands, sometimes in one meeting a thousand will come.

Sid:Now we want a little equal time in Israel some of the Jewish people of those dry bones I’m looking forward to a report after you come back after prophesying to those dry bones because that’s one of my favorite chapters and you know that revival must occur before the big invasions of Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Ben:Right.

Sid:What about people that are dead coming back to life I hear lots of reports of that happening in Africa especially in Mozambique.

Ben: Yes I believe there’s somewhere around 60 now that have been recorded just under Iris ministries in Mozambique.

Sid:Now did you get that! Sixty people that and I understand that they have strict requirements for who they consider was really dead it’s not some “We thing they were dead; they have to have pretty conclusive proof that they were dead and then they came back to life.

Ben:Right and so Surprisahas been involved in at least 3 resurrections, there’s a pastors wife that has brought 6 or 7 back to life and many of the pastors have.  You know Heidi she’s so precious she loves the Lord so much that she’s told these pastors that if the Lord takes her home they shouldn’t dare raise her back to life because she wants to stay there.

Sid:Well, the people that I know that have died and gone to Heaven and then come back they only came back because God sent them they really didn’t want to come back.  And I think Paul the apostle had that same problem he said I’d rather be in Heaven because he had already made some trips there, but he said for your sake I’m going to stay here.  How about you and your wife have ever had Third Heaven experiences?

Ben:Not the extent things were very clear and visible and so on just the very strong sense of God presence of angels around us and so on, but we’re praying for more clarity and we’re praying with a lot of people.Some people God leads them first to be forerunners and to activate other but we would love that.  I’m praying that we will have those face to face encounters; I’ve seen visions. I saw one vision where Jesus was represented by a ram and He was looking down at the sheep that were following Him up the mountain of the Lord. I saw in the eyes of that Ram the eyes of Jesus and that was a very precious thing because they were so powerful yet so passionately loving His sheep and desiring them to come higher with Him.  But I look forward to the day when I see Jesus face to face and I know that I won’t want to return either.

Sid:Ben would you put Brenda on while I still have both of you in this realm right now. (Laughing) I want to ask Brenda a few questions. Brenda I’ve been just speaking with your husband about some of the resurrections in Mozambique or the miracles; are there any that come to mind that either in Mozambique or anywhere that you’ve seen that you’ve either prayed for the person or seen with your own eyes in the miraculous?

Brenda:When I went to Mozambique a year ago I went out into the bush bush and Falito who is visiting with us right now actually Falito was the head guide under Heidi Baker and he became to pray.  First he showed the Jesus film and we worshipped with the Moslem tribe.  And this is a very poor tribe I would say they just had their grass huts and mud huts and very little on them and after the message Falito said we’re going to do miracles now we’re going to show you that Jesus this Jesus that we’re talking about on the film is here and alive today and He is going to heal you.  I want you to bring up the blind.  And remember they brought up little blind girl who had never seen from birth and he began to pray over her.  And then suddenly she began to look around you could see her turning her head and her eyes got… you could see them opening large, big eyes and I couldn’t understand her language but later heard that she was saying “Daddy I can see I can see.”  And that was very impacting on my life and at the same time others were being prayed for.  Now I prayed for many I just…Falito said “Don’t use your method just reach your hand out and say ‘Be healed in the Name of Jesus.’”  And they gave us the words in Mozambique and pray and we released those words and just kept praying so actually for myself not knowing their language I don’t know who was healed I just went around praying for as many as I could quickly as I could.

Sid:You know I recently returned from a trip to Africa and I had the same thing go on I didn’t see that much happen but I’m getting reports of things that occurred even a day or two days after I prayed for the people.  It’s like we in America want to see it instantly but big deal what if it takes two days to be healed of something incurable.

Brenda:That’s right just obey God and do it it’s up to Him.

Sid:You know on tomorrow’s broadcast I would like you and your husband Ben to pray for an impartation of the prophetic.Is that something that you two do?

Brenda: We do it all the time and we love to release people and encourage them in that gift.

Sid:Brenda your husband’s new book “Prophetic Ministry.” You touched upon it that this the best way to reach people for the Lord to either have a prophetic prayer or a word of knowledge.  I believe there’s such a special anointing on this book that as people read this their faith is going to grow especially with the prophetic prayer that you two are going to pray on tomorrow’s broadcast…the book is called “Prophetic Ministry” what type of feedback are you getting on this book Brenda?

Brenda:People are encouraged it’s bringing it down to their level and opening up the word to them that tells them they can do it it’s showing it it’s putting it before their eyes.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to realize that the stage is set for the return of the Messiah, but most Bible believers very few understand what the next war in the Middle East is going to be; what it will be about and what will be the fate of the nations connected with it.  And it’s a prelude to the big wars of Ezekiel 37 and 38 that most people do understand, but they’ve missed this Middle ingredient which they will not be prepared for what’s about ready to happen.  That’s why God has raised up Bill Salus, and Bill has spent 11 years researching Biblical prophecy on what he calls the Psalm 83 War.  And in this Psalm 83 War Bill what I find fascinating is, as you point out in your book and your DVDs, Israel will progressively get more and more land in the Middle East.  Tell me a little bit about that.

Bill:   Well, isn’t that amazing Sid, you know we brought up in one of the earlier programs this week that President Barak Obama is echoing the sentiment of much of the international community especially the Arab states that they want Israel to give up land for peace and enormous amount of land.  They want Israel to recede to the pre-1967 borders which of course would make Israel’s borders indefensible and that’s the argument that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presents and justifiably so.  So the world is wants to shrink Israel but that’s not the Biblical prescription for the days in which we live.  Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1, chapter 1 verse 4 I believe it is, talks about a much, much more sizable Israel that was promised in the Promise Land. Land that God was going to give to Abraham on through Isaac, Jacob and their descendants which are the Jewish people today.  We saw this happen about 3300 years ago when as a Hebrew exodus we saw Joshua getting some of that land, we saw even during 3000 years ago King David and King Solomon taking more of that land.  And in both instances more land that land possible possesses today; the land that they will someday possess Sid.  We’re told the meets and bounds of it goes from the river Nile in Egypt to the River Euphrates which of course is through modern day Iraq and Syria.  That’s about 15 times as much land as Israel presently occupies and I point out in the books and the DVDs that you presented to your audience that I believe they are going to start to get more of the land incrementally when they start to win this Psalm 83 war.  I believe that they are going to get Jordan, and I point out the scriptures why; I believe they are going to get some of Egypt, I point out the scriptures why; I believe they are going to get part of the southern Lebanon. Now I don’t go so far as to say that they are going to get all of that land until Jesus returns but there is historical precedent and there is modern day historical day precedent for Israel winning wars, Joshua, King David and 1967 and taking land.  They feel justified in doing that and they are justified in doing that and I believe we are seeing just the opposite is about to happen and the international community is expecting.

Sid: Now I want you to give me a thumb nail sketch of the players in this war and what’s going to happen to each of them including Israel.

Bill: Okay well I mentioned earlier program that we’ve got Syria got to be concern; they’re involved in Psalm 83 there is a prophecy there is two prophecies of great concern in Isaiah 17 and in Jeremiah 49.  They both talk about a serious judgment on Syria in fact Damascus it says “Will cease to be a city.”  You know Israel at this point in time has the weaponry to take out a major city and they certainly don’t want to do that but they are not going to be pushed off into the ocean and be wiped off the map and experience another Jewish genocide attempt.  Which in essence is kind of what Psalm 83 really is; they want to cut the nation off that the name of Israel will be remembered no more; and then you got Jordan.

Sid: You know I have to go back to the Arab Spring and the protests and when Morsi won being the head of Egypt.The violence that I saw on the faces of many of those Egyptians; I mean when that violence is turned loose that’s a scary prospect.

Bill:  Well you know Sid I think that there’s some very important information in the Bible about Egypt’s future, and I cover that also in the book.  Egypt is a population it’s the most populated Arab country, it is about 80 to 83 million or so Egyptians which about 10% are Coptic Christians about 8 million over there or so.  Now the scenario with Egypt at this point in time is that and I think the saying goes “As goes Egypt so goes the whole Middle East.”  They are a big kingdom, the number one Arab kingdom, I think their army ranks number 16 verses Israel which is by the way their army’s ranked number 10.  And the Bible says in Ezekiel 29 that someday Egypt is going to become the lowliest of kingdoms in the world.  And so in the Messianic Kingdom Egypt will actually be the lowliest of all kingdoms but that’s not the case right now.  What happens?  What happens between now and then and I point out in Isaiah 19 and Ezekiel 29 there are some very serious events forthcoming there’s actually two future judgments.  One’s present that I think is about to happen to Egypt and one is future and that’s when the anti-Christ goes into Egypt.

Sid:Now what is the present judgment going to be?

Bill:   The present one is going to be further involvement in Psalm 83 in my estimation; they’re going to be involved with Hezbollah, the Lebanese, Syrians, Hamas, Palestinian Refugees, Jordanians, Saudis, Egyptians, Muslim Brotherhood and a war a confederate war against Israel; and it’s going to be a big deal.  And they are going to be judged and I think Isaiah 19 just talks about an amazing process of what happens to Egypt from this day forward.

Sid:  But wait a second with all these weapons, including nuclear weapons now, with all these countries unifying against Israel, give me a break short of God showing up Israel doesn’t stand a chance!

Bill:   Well, okay here’s the key to understanding that Sid the Israeli Defense Forces are going to play a very significant role.  Remember in 1948 when they came over they were just a band of refugees and they were under attack and they won, and that happened in 1967 they won in six days, that happened in 1973.  Every battle they’ve gotten stronger their army is going to someday be an exceedingly great army according to Ezekiel 37:10.  They’re already a great army ranked number 10 in the world, they’re going to be exceedingly great after they win Psalm 83 War, but the story – Asaph wrote Psalm 83.  And he said in verses 9 and 11 in Psalm 83 he points God’s attention to dealing with the Arab confederacy under the historical precedent under the time of Gideon and the time of Barak during Prophetess Deborah’s time, in fact before Asaph’s time.What happened in those examples for instance Gideon 300 men army kill 120,000 Midianites.  There was 7 years of oppression of the Midianites on the Jews; and then the other example he used is there was 20 years of oppression on the Canaanites and the Jews.  In both instances the Israeli Defense Forces were empowered, they won, you’ll never find it’s interesting you won’t find any oppression ever again in the Bible or historically of the Midianites or the Canaanites after those victories.  And I think that’s the case we’re going to see here too after Psalm 83 those Arab countries will never oppress the Jews again.  And Israel will then be able to dwell securely in the midst of the land which really sort of sets the stage for the next big Goliath prophecy in Ezekiel 38.

Sid: Oh, let me ask you a question, what happens to Islam, what’s going to happen there?

Bill: Well, it’s interesting in Zephaniah 2:11 I also point this out in the offering that you’re presenting your audience.  It says that the Lord, Jehovah, will famish all the gods of the earth.Some day that is going to be the case.  And I really think we’re seeing the god of money already you know that’s falling away in 2007 and the economy is still in shambles.  The whole is still having economic problems, I think the god of Allah, you talk about Islam I think the Arab Spring was the turning point for that god, that false god.  And so you see Islam is involved in some big deals coming up here pretty soon.  Psalm 83, ten populations listed they are all Islamic, and when that get’s defeated by the Israel Defense Forces I call that a punch to the gut of Islam.

Sid: Now are you saying to me that according to your understanding of Bible prophecy in Psalm 83 all these major Arab countries are going to be devastated beyond repair almost?

Bill: Absolutely yeah. Now fortunately there will be some Arab populations that will have a remnant much like the Israeli’s will have a faithful remnant.

Sid:So are we talking about nuclear arms?

Bill:   I don’t see any way that it won’t be Sid and I think that there will be Biblical descriptions for that.  How does Damascus cease to be a city become a ruinous heap overnight?  And that’s what Isaiah 17 verses 1 and verses 14 seem to say.  There’s a prophesy in Ezekiel 29 that seems to suggest that Seine it’s where the Aswan Dam is in Egypt gets desolated.

Sid: How quickly could this next war happen?

Bill:  It could happen immediately and won’t be a long war; Israel cannot fight a war of attrition, they’ve never had a history since 1948 for fighting long protractive wars; they don’t have that luxury.  You can fit all of Israel into to Lake Michigan, I think it’s like Michigan, it’s about the size of New Jersey right now.  Israel does not have the luxury of anymore of this back and forth battles that they’ve had with Hamas and with Hezbollah.  The question is will the next war be another skirmish or will it be a war of epic Biblical proportion?  And I’m telling you, I believe it’s the mother of all mid-East Wars coming up.

Sid: And something we haven’t talked about and I’d like to do this on tomorrow’s broadcast is where is the United States in all of this; what is their participation; what is the repercussion to the United States of America?  So we’ll pick up there on tomorrow’s broadcast.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s natural supernatural. There have been two times in my life where I experienced such an awesome presence of supernatural peace. Let me tell you the two times. First, when I became a believer I dealt with the worst fear a human can have. It was so bad I didn’t want to live. And I went to bed, and I said a two-word prayer, “Jesus help.” And when I woke up, I woke up, but there was something different. The room was flooded with tangible supernatural peace like I had never experienced in my life. Now I’ve never been on drugs. I can’t tell you what that’s like. I’ve never been an alcoholic. I’ve never even been drunk. I can’t tell you what that’s like. But I can tell you that this peace was so awesome it changed everything about me. Then the second time was I come from an orthodox Jewish background and my father was the tough one in my family. I couldn’t even say the name “Jesus” without him being so deeply offended and hurt. Well he was dying in intensive care in the hospital. A week before this peace came all over me, tangible. It was wonderful. I didn’t even know why it was there, but I liked it. But God knew why it was there. Twenty-four hours a day for seven days I walked in this most amazing peace. And when I went into the hospital room with this peace supernaturally, I tell you, my father did not want to receive Jesus, but he could not resist this supernatural peace. And my orthodox Jewish father, I heard with my own ears, he said, “Jesus is my Messiah.” And boy, now I have found out, but here’s what I found out. I can walk in this same peace, this same favor, this same presence, this same feeling, 24/7. And my guest is going to teach you how to do this. Dennis Clark, do you walk in this supernatural peace 24/7? Really, between you and me, the honest truth.

DENNIS: Honest truth?

SID: Honest truth.

DENNIS: 24/7. But when I blow it I get back there real fast.

SID: Do you teach others and do they walk in it?

DENNIS: Yes. That’s the passion of my life, is when I discovered that it was something that could be duplicated. I just fell in love with it. It’s my whole life. It’s that little children right up onto adults. They can all learn.

SID: Okay. The Hebrew word for peace is “shalom”. But shalom means more than just the English word “peace”. What does shalom mean?

DENNIS: Shalom means wholeness, completeness. It includes prosperity. It includes healing. It includes relationships or friendships emitted by the spirit. It includes everything from a sense of knowing justice, and the part I like, no pain, because God takes that pain away in shalom. In the peace there’s safety. I’ve seen situations of deliverance and safety, both really, in the shalom of God, tranquility, harmony. Everything is intact.

SID: Listen, doctors would say that if you could rid of stress you’d probably get rid of most of the diseases known to man. Can you actually live a stress-free life?

DENNIS: Yes. Yes you can. And if you’re not it’s certainly within your reach. It’s within every believer’s reach to live in it and to practice it. Stress is basically meaning that you’re being controlled, this is especially for men, you’re being controlled emotionally by people or circumstances, and that it is the opposite of trusting God.

SID: So you have a choice to be controlled by people and circumstances or God, but you can’t be by both.

DENNIS: Not both.

SID: Last night at dinner you told me something and you were demonstrating it. It’s amazing. Most people hear what someone is saying. But you do what you call dual awareness. Explain that.

DENNIS: Dual awareness is on people’s words there’s a nature and it’s just like the scriptures say, “Let the words of your mouth and the meditations be acceptable.” They’re both acceptable. And people talk. They can say something pleasant, but the nature that’s attached to it can be something unpleasant.

SID: So have your built in lie detector. It’s sort of like, well that’s the Bible calls discernment.

DENNIS: Yes. It’s making a distinction or a differentiation between what is said and what is the nature that’s attached to us.

SID: So most of us are talking to someone, like I’m talking to you, and it’s mind to mind, but you’re dual nature is you know the person by your spirit. Now you talked about dropping down from the mind to the spirit and living in the spirit, which we’ve been talking about. Tell me the five G’s of peace.

DENNIS: The five G’s of peace, and you can find them in scripture. It’s the direction that really the Holy Spirit wants us all to live our lives. The first one is to govern. In other words, let the peace of God rule. And in that same scripture He also says, let the peace of God be the umpire. Let Him call the shots or let Him guide you, the second G. So there’s governing, there’s guiding. There’s also this wonderful capacity for Him to guard. Let the peace of God guard your heart and your mind through Christ Jesus. To live in that realm is reality. And then from guarding your heart there’s even the capacity to gather. It has, just as we talked earlier, it draws. It’s like a magnet. People are drawn to true comfort. When it’s the comfort or the peace of the Holy Spirit people of all backgrounds, believers and non-believers, are attracted to something that, even if they can’t put their finger on it. They’re attracted. It gathers. And the last one is that peace grounds. I noticed in the Prince of Peace, in Isaiah, it talked about the “government is upon his shoulders” and he is ordering it and establishing it. And I like that word “establishing” because then you’re getting grounded in it. You’re not just kind of there. You’re deepening that relationship to where it becomes more permanent by reason of, again, practice.

SID: What happened to you in the halfway house?

DENNIS: This was a supernatural manifestation of peace. We were in an atmosphere that you could tell someone was about to run, because the atmosphere gets charged, and you know someone is going to do something like, I’m leaving this place. And in that atmosphere suddenly it was a little bit of a warning. But all of a sudden this one man pulled a knife out. He had not taken his medication. And I was standing at the only exit, and he was going to go through me. And he pulled that knife on me, and I felt the supernatural peace of God on the inside of me as well as almost a canopy guarding me, making me safe.

SID: But your intellect must have been saying, tilt, I’m getting out of this picture.

DENNIS: Tilt, yes. And that’s the power of peace. Peace overrode it, and you basically find out that things go better when God’s in charge.

SID: Okay. Did he say what he was going to do to you?

DENNIS: Yeah. He was going to cut me in a little pieces if I didn’t get out of the way. I knew that I knew, that I knew I had a deep, rigid peace that I wasn’t moving. But it got even better than that. Because it was not just a matter of me being safe and unharmed from him and the security of that peace, but I saw the manifestation of what I believe was Jehovah Shalom, or the God of Peace, the one that crushes the enemy beneath your feet. Because I saw him even without the medication that he failed to take and with the knife in his hand, I saw him soften as I stood there, and soften to where he put the knife down, and he was just like as tender as a little puppy.

SID: Did you catch that? Supernatural protection in this supernatural peace. What about supernatural favor? How would you like some supernatural favor in this supernatural peace?

We’ll be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s natural supernatural. I wouldn’t want it any other way. Would you? I mean, it’s the rarified air of Heaven. It’s the best thing in the world. No doctor could ever come up with better medicine than the rarified air of Heaven. What if in your home when, you’re praying, there were enemies in the invisible world whose assignment is to stop your prayers from getting even to the sin let alone to God? What if your invisible enemies were in your city and in your state, and in your country. What if you could get rid of those invisible enemies and have an open Heaven for your prayer. This is what would happen. Your prayers would be answered instantly. That is normal. I want you to be normal. I’ll tell you what, national leaders are saying that when they get a hold of the teaching of Dr. John Benefiel their prayers are being answered instantly. But for you to get a grasp of what he’s teaching you’ve got to understand a term you probably read in the Bible and kind of skipped over, because that was in the olden days. Well it’s still around. It’s a term, Baal. Who’s Baal?

JOHN: Well Sid, Baal is in the Bible in Matthew 12:24. He’s referred to as the “ruler of the demons.” Now Matthew 12:24, it says Beelzebub or Beelzebub, and that used to throw me off because if you look that up it says, “Lord of the flies”, and I thought, I don’t have trouble with flies. But when you look at it deeper that’s just another name for Baal. And Baal is the false Jesus or counterfeit Jesus. Paul talked about that. He said, if someone else brings you a different gospel or a different Jesus, don’t receive it. So as Jesus is the executor of the Father’s will, I believe that Baal is the executor of Satan’s will. And so Baal has influenced Israel. Baal has influenced the world. If he’s the ruler of the demons then we have to learn how to deal with him, how to knock him out legally, and that’s the prayers that we teach.

SID: Okay. What is the major job description? What areas does Baal influence in a country?

JOHN: Well really, Sid, he influences everything. If he’s the ruler of the demons then all of culture is under his authority in one way or another. But for instance, he is Baal Hamon, which is like mammal or mammon. He’s the one that’s stopping great wealth transfer to the church. He’s the one that is behind poverty and systemic poverty. And also, he’s the one behind sexual perversion, all kinds of sexual perversion.

SID: Like what’s going on right now. Internet pornography is just off the charts. It’s not a natural thing. It’s a supernatural thing, and it’s not from God. So he’s behind that.

JOHN: Well yes. And with Jezebel, and by the way Bel is a variation of Baal, Jezebel named herself that because she was a worshiper of Baal. And in the Baal temples, which she had, she employed full time male and female cult prostitutes who committed sex acts in the open for everyone to watch as a part of the worship ceremony. So today when someone engages in pornography of any form, whether they realize it or not, they’re engaged in Baal worship, and Baal has a legal right to operate in their lives.

SID: It seems like almost suddenly homosexuality is normal, as defined by society, not as defined by God. How did this just suddenly erupt in the world?

JOHN: It’s been growing for a long time. It’s been growing since the Garden, if you want to put that away. But it’s been getting worse and worse because we have allowed Baal to infiltrate our Christianity, for example. When we traded biblical holidays, for example, and biblical observances for pagan holidays, for example, then we gave Baal a legal right into our nation. And so when we lusted in our hearts we allowed Baal to come in and bring that pornography in, including homosexuality. Because, as I said, in the Baal temples, they had male on female, female on female, and male on male.

SID: Now it’s sad that this Baal is a god with a small “g” of a thousand faces. What do you mean by that?

JOHN: Well it means he’s gone by thousands of different names and faces over the centuries because he wants to appear as an angel of light. The Bible says that the enemy appears as an angel of light. He wants to appear good and he does not want us to find out, because when we find him out, we have a chance of getting him. We have a chance of taking him down once we recognize his tactics. You know, the Bible says, “My people perish for lack of knowledge.” And the Bible also admonishes us to watch out because “your adversary is a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.” The Bible also talks about, in Ephesians 6:12, “We don’t wrestle against flesh and blood,” people are not our problem, “but against principalities and powers.” And as you said, our problem is in the unseen realm and if we don’t know how to deal with the unseen realm, like the Bible tells us to do, then we’re at a great disadvantage. It’s kind of like being in a boxing ring and we’re boxing an invisible adversary.

SID: Alright. You said the god of Islam, Allah, is connected to Baal.

JOHN: What we found out in our research, and it’s not that hard to find out, is that Allah’s original name was Baal Allah, and also Hu Baal or Hu Bal, because Bal was also one of the pronunciations of Baal. And it makes sense if he’s the rooter of the demons that all false religions would be under his orchestration.

SID: And so Islam, Muslim, Mormon, witchcraft.

JOHN: Yes.

SID: But guess what? When the enemy is unmasked you have the authority, and it’s a most ingenious way that God shows you to get rid of these demons, when they’re gone, open Heaven for every one of your needs. How do you like that?

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah, but let me tell you something as we just started this show this studio is flooded with the presence of God.  Dennis Clark are you feeling that same presence that I’m feeling right now?

Dennis:  Absolutely.

Sid:  Did He give you any Words of Knowledge because when I feel His presence so strong I believe God wants to say something.

Dennis: I believe that He’s got a word for people that they have anointing within and that they could be touching and deeply aware of His presence it’s more available than they ever know.  It’s simplicity of Messiah on the inside and it’s a reality, it’s not theory.

Sid:  You know what, when I read your book you quoted a scripture “I’ve been crucified with Messiah, it’s no longer I who live but the Messiah who lives in me and the life I now live I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.” But the thing that jumped out at me when I read that in your book it’s no longer I who live but the Messiah who lives in me.  That’s what you’re saying.

Dennis: Yes and it’s so simple it’s sometimes confounds us because it’s an awareness and a presence that’s available.  And every aspect of His character and His nature all those wonderful attributes are available to us and there in us and they can be applied to the situations of life.  The interesting thing about Galatians 2:20 is that this also suggests that He’s the forgiver, He’s our deliver and if it is no longer I who live but the Messiah who lives within me then it is no longer I who love but the Messiah who loves in me.  It also suggests that it no longer I who forgive but the Messiah in me who forgives.  And when we allow Him Philippians 2:13 takes place automatically.  “For it is the Messiah within that I yield who wills and to do His good pleasure as I yield to Him He works.  As I touch him and allow Him to work He works.”

Sid:  So it’s no longer striving is what you’re saying.

Dennis: Absolutely.

Sid: It’s no longer works, it’s yielding rather it’s not being totally passive but it’s yielding to Him rather than you’re doing it yourself.

Dennis: Correct, correct. It’s actually militant when we understand that it’s the force of love in us that is the motivation.  It’s the pouring out of our belly rivers of life living water flowing outward.  We’re better at talking than we are at allowing Him to rule.

Sid:  Well, let’s use an example of someone that sat under this teaching like let’s say that 18 year old girl that had to learn to forgive herself.

Dennis: Yes, yes she was stuck in a relationship and she felt that it was manipulative and controlling, but she seemed like she was frustrated she even asked her parents or pastor if she could fly down and have a session with Dennis.  And she flew down and she said, “Now you taught me how to do this but I’m struggling I’ve got this relationship and I don’t want to hate them.”  And that made perfect sense you know because at that point how do I break free?  And I said “We’re going to receive forgiveness for opening an emotional attachment, receive forgiveness for opening up to a relationship because your emotions belong to God.”

Sid: This was an abusive relationship.

Dennis: Yeah and it was so that basically she just wanted to release forgiveness to them and she did, she received forgiveness but she needed that attachment broken.  And I said, “You belong to the Messiah within, He is your Lord, therefore even mind, will and your emotions belong to Him.”  And when she did that she had a remarkable little statement that she made afterwards.  She said, “I don’t have to hate them, but the pull is no longer there, the pull the force of lustful attraction or even even the need to be with that individual” suddenly that attraction was broken.

Sid:  We might use a word from ecology the addiction was broken.

Dennis: Yes, yes absolutely.

Sid: And speaking about that most Christian counselors say “Forgiveness is a process.”  That’s not what God taught you.

Dennis: Absolutely not.

Sid:  As a matter of fact some even go a step a step further and that is to say “Well, it’s good to experience the pain of trying to forgive someone and it’s a real process.”

Dennis: Yeah, well our Messiah took our pain and our sorrow. In that taking of it we still have the ability to release it and place it in His hands and He takes it. Listen to this, He takes it every time.  For me it’s like salvation, it works every time.  It is not hit or miss, the only reason we have hit and miss results is primary is because we’re doing it by accident rather than really doing it out of awareness of Christ within.  He takes it every time, it’s like dropping it on a conveyor belt you yield to the Messiah within and He takes it.  Forgiveness flows out of the belly like rivers of living water and it takes it out.  It washes it out and takes it out.

Sid: Well, you basically have said in your experience 99% of Christians don’t know how to forgive.  They think it’s a process; give me an example of how you forgive.

Dennis:  When I forgive you know a lot of times we’ve been well taught how to talk, how to pray, how to say the right answers but I go by the condition of the heart.  Is it Christ the forgiver in me doing the work? It’s by yielding to Him and recognizing Christ in me going to any negative, any negative is a barrier between me and him that’s the criteria.  And if it doesn’t change to peace down low in the belly, if it doesn’t change to peace it hasn’t been thoroughly cleansed. Peace is the supernatural evidence, or the supernatural exchange that Christ the forgiver in you went to it and took it with Him, took it away.

Sid:  Now you talk about something called “Drop down.” Most people do not know where their Spirit is. They point to their heart, they point even to the middle of the chest, but where is the Spirit?

Dennis: The heart is the bowels, the belly, the kidneys, it’s even in some translations referred to as the womb. It’s in the gut, and the gut is where the conscience, your spirit, the seat of the emotions, you know bowels of compassion; it’s also the place of the conscience, everything but your thoughts which are in your head.

Sid: You know most people don’t know, but scientists have even proven they call that in your guts your second brain.

Dennis: Yes. All internal knowing’s, and specially having been walking in discernment for so many years. All inner knowing’s are seeing, hearing, or touching primarily. There’s even smell and taste in the spirit realm, but primarily it’s seeing… you know in your knower through seeing, hearing, or touching. The fact that I believe this needs to be reintroduced to the church like the Brother Lawrence “Practicing the Presence,” is because this walk in the spirit is a constant compared to flashes of insight with seeing and hearing.

Sid:  I like that.  Okay, tell me how should I forgive someone that has offended me? Let’s suppose a business partner…

Dennis: Correct.

Sid: I’m making this up, has offended me deeply. Every time I hear his name I have chosen as a believer to forgive him, I have willed to forgive him, but I feel like acid churning in my stomach when his name is brought up. How do I get rid of that acid?

Dennis: I’ll tell you the easiest way, particularly for listeners. Put their hand on their belly.

Sid:  I’ve got my hand on my belly right now.

Dennis: I’ll tell you what, any person that comes to your mind there is a corresponding emotion, every time no exceptions. So that person, that corresponding emotion is down there where your hand is. Whether you can name it or not, you know it’s not the fruit of the Spirit. You know there’s something between you and them, and the only way you can tell something between you and them is gone is peace. So we let, listen to this, let, allow, no trying. I let, I allow Christ the forgiver in me go to that negative wall, emotion, to it and through it, and He carries it away on a river of loving living water, loving forgiveness. It’s loving forgiveness that flows out of my belly. When it changes to peace, this takes literally seconds for most people. When you can picture that person in your head and feel peace down in your heart, you have a historical record in your head, but you’ve got the heavenly record in the gut. You’re clean inside.

Sid: You know what it is so wonderful Dennis is to be able to live in this supernatural peace 24-7. I believe that you’re walking then stress free. Let’s face it, most doctors say most physical conditions they can trace to stress in the body, but then you can be confident in hearing God’s voice. How many Christians are confident, they’re confident in someone else hearing God’s voice, but how many are confident in them hearing God’s voice? How many are confident that the promises of God are going to operate in their life? How many have this supernatural discernment to know what’s really going in the spirit realm? This isn’t taught in churches. Everyone needs it that’s the missing thing you’ve been looking for.

Sid: I am so excited the end times are speeding up they are so speeding up but I want to see your prayers speed up just as much as end-times are speeding up because God needs you to operate in this realm.  God wants you to be involved in the transformation of your family; in the transformation of your finances; in the transformation of your city and the transformation of the politics in the United States and the governments in the United States, and the weather in the United States.   And there is this great wealth transfer but it’s not going to happen to those that don’t know how to get rid of the obstacles to their prayers.  And so I’m so excited about interviewing Dr. John Benefiel this week, Pastor of Church on the Rock in Oklahoma City. He has a prayer network called the Oklahoma Apostolic Prayer Network some 700 churches, 4,000 intercessors.  And once he got the revelation of praying in a specific way; in a legal way with faith his whole church, his whole prayer life, everyone that understands this there has been a transformation.  Now we’re talking about the ruling demon, if you will, over the United States in almost, in every arena and his name is Baal.  And you said John that Baal has a 1000 faces; in other words he keeps disguising himself; tell me some of his faces.

John: Well, that’s absolutely right; you know the Bible says that the enemy appears as an angel of light and we got to remember that. So he appears he appears to be really really good and unless we know his strategies and his tactics he can take advantage of us.

Sid: Well according to the Bible John in the last days there’s going to be…one of the earmarks of the last days is great deception.     

John: Yes.

Sid: So I want to know about some of his faces because I have never seen some of the teaching that you’ve assembled before.

John: Well, first of all as we said in Matthew 12:24 the Bible very clearly says that Baal is the ruler of the demons.  It says “Beelzebub” but when you research the word Beelzebub that’s just another name for Baal is the ruler of the demons.  And again I like to say that Baal is the false Jesus or the counterfeit Jesus.  And here’s some of the names over the centuries that we’re dealing with.  One of them is Baal hamone which is like mahmone which we say mammon; it’s one of his many names it means the lord of wealth or abundance.  And this is the principality warring against the great transfer of wealth to the church; we got to war against this spirit to see our inheritance released.  And if you look Jeremiah 51:44 you find out that it refers to Bel, B-e-l in that verse but Bel is simply another variation of the name of Baal and Jezebel named herself that because she was a worshipper of Baal so when you see that Jezebel you see the affects of Baal.

Sid: So people that are having problems financially, people that it just seems every time they make an investment it goes wrong.  Could Baal be operating in their life?

John: Absolutely, if he’s the lord of wealth or abundance, and really I believe that mammon is under Baal which is one of Baal’s names, then we’ve got to deal with him. It’s right to be a tither and a giver, there is no question about that; we have to do that.  But sometimes then the enemy has inroads that we’re not even aware of I think we have to learn how to deal with Baal in this. Now another name is Baal borith and it means lord of the covenant, now the Hebrew word Baal or and you said it correctly Ba-ahl just the Hebrew word, not the false god but the Hebrew word Ba-ahl actually means husband or marriage.  So this spirit has attempted to cause Israel to divorce or break covenant with God and marry or align with him and consistent with this in so many ways is America has broken covenant with God and married Baal.  Well now does that mean we were cognoscente, understood what we were doing at the time, no, but that’s what the enemy does, he tricks us into things so I believe that Baal, or Ba-ahl, is the strongman behind most covenant breaking which includes of course marriage.  It’s not the only form of covenant but it is marriage; we’re supposed to be married to the Lord and Him alone.

Sid: So you figure that a lot of people especially Christians that are having as many divorces percentage wise as non-Christians that this Ba-ahl is behind it?

John: Absolutely, I’m totally convinced of it; absolutely believe that.  The Lord of the covenant He does not…Baal does not want us to be married to the Lord Jesus Christ, you know if we’re married to Jesus that means we don’t commit adultery, we don’t go whoring after some other god.  In the teaching that I give I show us ways that he’s tricked us into agreeing with Baal’s tactics.

Sid: What about things like the increase in America of Christians being addicted to pornography?

John: Oh, absolutely Sid, this is a huge area because I believe that Baal is the strong man behind sexual perversion.  For example in the Baal temples with Jezebel for example, they employed full time male and female cult prostitutes who committed sex acts in the open for everyone to watch, as a part of their worship of Baal.  Well, that goes on 24-7 today in America online and in movies, and on internet and so on in the form of pornography.

Sid: Well, what about things like homosexuality and abortion is that influenced by Baal?

John: Absolutely, homosexuality was and is one of his big strongholds and I really do believe that all of the sexual sin and perversion America is to one degree or another under Baal’s orchestration.  And so when we break this thing off of ourselves, George Barna I believe a few years ago made a survey of Christian pastors and he surveyed over a 1000 Christian pastors anonymously and what he found was about 60% of the pastors had admitted to have viewed pornography when in 3 days of taking the survey.  Now if that’s anywhere near correct, if anywhere near 60% of the pastors in America have been hooked on pornography to one degree or another what about the congregations.  When you do that you’re worshipping, you’re coming in covenant with this false god of Baal.

Sid: Now it’s seems to me John from everything I can see there is an increase in all this perversion and look what’s happening to the finances of the greatest country in the world, America.  And all of the promiscuousness and the breaking of the Ten Commandments and do you believe that Baal is behind all of these things?

John: Absolutely.

Sid: Alright give me one quick example of someone that prayed the way that you teach and the answer to prayer.

John: Well, gosh there’s a lot of different ways, you know one thing that a couple in our church for example were in debt 20 million dollars and how are you going to get out of 20 million dollars?

Sid: You go bankrupt. (laughing)

John: Well yeah, and that’s what their attorney said you needed to do is declare bankruptcy, just forget about it.  And when they heard my teaching and they in faith did the Baal Divorce Decree and the Writ of Assistance, it’s not must mouthing the words it’s believing what you’re saying and petitioning God.  What’s happened was that over 19 million dollars of the 20 million dollars in debt was totally wiped out with no bankruptcy at all.  And their business was able to handle the million dollars that’s left.  But 19 million dollars of debt wiped out supernaturally when their attorney said, “You just need to do bankruptcy.”  That’s what the enemy, that’s what Baal wants to do, he wants to put us in financial bondage and so that we don’t tithe and worship the Lord and give offerings to the Lord like we should.

Sid: But let me ask you this, there’s some people that tithe and still don’t get the results the Bible says they’re supposed to, could Baal have some sort of stronghold in their life?

John: This couple that I’m talking about had been faithful tither’s and givers for years for a long, long time. You do have to that, I mean you have to do it in order to do what the word of God says, you need to be faithful in your finances absolutely.  But if the enemy has been given a legal in road into our lives through let’s say for example some kind of sexual perversion being involved in pornography of anything like that homosexuality or breaking covenant with people, breaking agreements.

Sid: I’m amazed at just the fraternal orders that either people have been a member of or they’re family members or generations back that they’ve been members of like, take Masons for example, Knights of Pythias and how it literally is an opening for this Baal in their life.

John: Oh absolutely that’s the case and when we talk about Masons we’re not against the people we remember that we’re never against the people but my whole family evolved from Free Masonry, I was not a Mason myself.  And I want to tell you if your white and you live in America there’s a strong likelihood that your ancestors were involved in Masonry in one way or another.  Even Greek Fraternities and Sororities are all when you look at the history like I looked at and some of my other friends have you find out that there is springs from Free Masonry which is a secret society.  And For instance in the 33^rd degree not the 32^nd, but the 33^rd degree they’re taught that Lucifer is the one true God of light and goodness.

Sid: Oops we’re out of time…

Sid:  There is an outpouring of God’s Spirit; it’s called “The Glory” it’s literally invading Planet Earth.  My guest David Herzog has been operating under the Glory for many years and he’s written a brand new book called “Glory Invasion” and the purpose of the book is for you to catch the revelation of the Glory and then literally you’re prayers start being answered instantly.  And we’re coming into that time and season, you see God wants to have mercy on planet earth and He needs every one of us operating in the Glory of God.  David give me just a couple of suggestions as to how our Mishpochah can move into the Glory. Do you start worshipping God; for people that haven’t moved into it what do you recommend?

David: The best thing to do when you start coming in time with God I would not start just telling him what your needs and wants and binding or warfare.  Just like you said, the best thing is come with praise and worship that’s the first thing you want to do and just begin to praise Him, praise Him worship Him and you do that as long as you need to do that until that heavy, heavy presence and the Glory comes on you you’ll sense and you’ll feel a breakthrough at first and then you get it stronger and stronger, and then you’ll get so light and when that heavy, heavy presence comes then you just begin praying as God leads you.  So I would put away your prayer list and just worship Him, give Him give Him what He wants, let the Glory come; and then just talk to God.

Sid:  Do you normally use worship music or not?

David: I do it helps you to get in the Spirit you have a whole band behind you when you put a CD in there it really helps.  But there is different kind of worship helps different people but you know try to get a good praise and worship that leads you into the glory.  And for everybody it’s going to different you know types of worship or music that helps them.

Sid: Well, just as you’re speaking right now I sense the glory; the glory has just come into this studio. David could you move in the Spirit?

David: Yes, there’s miracles happening right now as people are listening I saw someone’s eyes being healed right now the retina in your eyes and you got stigmatism, others have glaucoma, spots, blindness, partial blindness I see eyes being healed right now.  So in the Name of Jesus I just declare eyes be healed, eyes open up, stigmatisms, glaucoma, spots go in Jesus Name and be healed right now.  Thank you Father God, I see someone with nerve damage being healed, a another person they just had a car accident I think a couple of weeks ago I’m seeing you injured one side of your body you can hardly feel or move one side of your body and God’s healing it bringing strength and feeling back to your body in the Name of Jesus.  A hip replacement I’m seeing, God’s replacing a hip and there’s all kinds of miracles, there’s bones being recreated right now, bones that are missing, God’s recreating bones, bone tissue we command the cells in the bone in the molecular structure of the bone to begin to grow right now in the Name of Jesus there’s a growth that’s disappearing tumors.  I command tumors and growths in the glory just to be gone in Jesus mighty Name; His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  In Heaven there’s no tumors, there’s no sickness and just as you walk in that realm of Glory I just thank You God that these sicknesses are going right now.  Someone’s got major diabetes and you take insulin and God’s healing you right now of diabetes in Jesus Name we command it to go.  Blood sugar problems are being regulated.  Right now a disc in the lower back is being recreated right now in Jesus Name we command that disk in the lower back to be reformed, repositioned and recreated in Jesus Name. There’s skin diseases being healed, someone got a major burn recently I see your skin all red and God’s healing your burn right now and causing new skin to grow over that skin.  I even see someone with a tattoo and you’ve been asking the Lord about “What do I do with this tattoo I don’t want it anymore it has some demonic symbol on it.”  And I see the tattoo beginning to fade supernaturally, we’ve seen this happen three times but in Jesus mighty name we command the tattoo to begin disappearing supernaturally begin fading right now in the Name of Jesus as a sign and as a wonder.  And there’s lots of people getting gold teeth and gold fillings and gold crowns.

Sid:  That seems to happen a lot when you minister in the Glory, the gold teeth.

David: Yeah, it’s just one of the things that happen a lot in the meetings.

Sid: Now I noticed a number of people had no feeling until they looked in their mouth and found that there was gold there they didn’t have any strange feeling in their mouth but when they looked they saw their teeth were gold.

David: Yeah, most of the time people don’t feel anything they just look and then there it is and they’re shocked it’s exciting. We see people with no teeth grow teeth, we’ve been seeing that the last couple months where people are missing whole teeth.  We were in Saint Thomas, Virgin Island and a whole full grown tooth appeared where there was no tooth and the lady just freaked out, she didn’t know what to do she told everybody in town but she was so scared she didn’t come back the second night until the last night she just couldn’t believe what God did.  So it’s fun when God does some miracle to the point where it almost freaks them out and they have to really think about it.

Sid:  But you know the purpose of these miracles are signs and wonders for people to recognized that the Kingdom of God has invaded planet earth.  I am so sick of turning on television and seeing the cheap counterfeit of the authentic, the authentic is the Kingdom of God; the counterfeit is the New Age the kingdom of the devil.  And it has free reign on television and it’s about time if God’s children don’t take this Glory out and manifest His presence the devil isn’t shy.

David: Exactly and we almost can’t blame him because like I said on one of the interviews the church has let them down; a lot in the New Age actually went to Church first looking for God to show up and they didn’t see Him it was dead religion so then they figure “Well, these people may have something; so we owe it to our generation to move in the Glory in signs and wonders so that they see there’s a difference there’s another option it’s not just the demonic power.”

Sid: Now what is your belief in prayer of people that read your brand new book “Glory Invasion” what’s going to happen to them?

David: I believe as a lot of people as they read the book if they’re honestly hungry and thirsty are going to move into incredible things, they’re going to read the book and move into…not just creative miracles, healings, signs and wonders but they are going to start understanding how they have authority over creation, literally over creation command a tornado to stop instantly.  Just a body parts to be recreated, say objects that are lost to call them back like Elijah did with the floating ax-head.  Understanding how Jesus went through walls when He was resurrected He went right threw the wall and disappeared.  How people are transported they’ll under and have a greater faith for literally being transported maybe while they’re driving their car and suddenly they’re from point A to Point B in a split second.

Sid:  Listen with what is going on right now on planet earth to be able to move in the power of the word in the Glory of God you give an example in your book of John G. Lake who had so many miracles happen in the United States and in Africa.  Tell us quickly about what happened.

David: Oh, he had so many miracles; one of the miracles I remember was he was in his room praying, this is what I read.  He was praying and praying for this lady to be healed interceding basically for another lady who was somewhere else at her house sleeping most likely just praying for her.  And the lady says that she saw him walk in her room lay hands on her and she was instantly healed.  So the next day or so she contacted him and thanked him for coming into her house and praying for her.  He said, “I was never in your house I was in my house interceding for you,” but basically she saw him as if he was there.  So it shows how when you’re in that glory realm there’s no  time or distance you can literally be having a dream one night that you went to Africa and three weeks later you go to Africa and they say “Oh you were here three weeks ago, it literally happened.

Sid:  And you know Mishpochah I know in David’s ministry and in my ministry we have been translated but not to that magnitude, I don’t know about you David but yours hasn’t been to that magnitude has it?

David: No not yet.

Sid:  But is it going to be?

David: It’s going to be yes, I haven’t gone that far yet but…

Sid: Actually the story I was talking about was the story about John G. Lake when he was in Africa and he was working among those that had the plague and they were dying and they didn’t want him to go in.  So to prove that he could go in what did he do?

David: Yeah, well everyone was dying of this plague so he’s praying for the sick with no protection no nothing and I think it was the government workers or the medical workers that had all their gloves or equipment on said, “How are you doing this without equipment, without protection, how are you touching these people and not getting the virus?”  He said, “Well, let me show you the virus,” he puts it under a microscope and he says “Now look in the microscope and she what happens when I touch the virus.”  With the power of God on his hands they could literally see like something all over him like an energy or fire on his hands; he would touch the virus and it would shrivel up and died basically and the scientists were astounded.  And he said, “That’s the power of God” he showed them that he’s got greater power than the virus.

Sid:  And you know speaking of virus many prophetic people think that maybe be next thing the terrorist are going to try in the United States, but I believe when we’re walking in the Glory of God 24-7 no weapon formed against us can prosper.

David: Amen, and I think we are going to have an opportunity to see mass resurrections too. As you said, “There’s going to have to be a lot of dead people to see mass resurrections but there’s going to be situations where that will happen and we’ll be able to call forth a death back to life and body parts recreated.  And it will be like Ezekiel’s bones all over again, Ezekiel 37.

Sid:  Let it happen quickly, actually it is happening right now, I believe that’s why God had you write the book, I believe that’s why you’re listening to us right now…R.W. Shambach witnessing the greatest miracle he ever saw in his life it was under the ministry of A.A. Allen.  And this young child comes forward with 26 diseases, should have been dead, he saw the eyeballs form before his very eyes, he saw the club feet straighten out before his very eyes.  David I believe that this is going to be normal Christianity in the days we’re living in.

David: Amen.

Sid:  Is that why you call your book “Glory Invasion?”

David: Yeah, I think God wants to invade every area on this earth not just a little touch here and there but literally take over whole cities and whole areas, whole regions with the Glory of God literally Iike an Open Heaven over regions.

Sid: Well, you know this summer we’re going to have a major conference I believe it’s going to be a release of the One New Man Glory.  It’s going to be on August 23; I’ve invited friends of mine that have little bits of the puzzle and we’re going to put it all together.  Five-fold people from every spectrum from prophets to evangelists to signs and wonders to understanding the house church, to understanding intimacy with God; if you want the brochure call our 800 number they’ll send you the brochure.

Sid:Now my guest Al Houghton, I’m speaking to him at his home in Anaheim, California has recaptured what the first church understood which this generation does not understand.  It came in a series of progressive revelations, it’s not new it’s just its tradition.  And you know what Al I think it is the pendulum swings; everything was sin, sin, sin, judgment, judgment, judgment then it swung to God is a Sugar Daddy.  And what is it about us humans that we can’t walk right down the middle?

Al:  (Laughing) We certainly do like to have a relationship with Jesus who is 100% mercy because that allows us then to have gray areas and not feel too bad about it.

Sid:But the judgments side is not spoken and if it is it could cost a pastor part of his income.

Al:  That’s exactly right and then it becomes a mammon issue and Jesus said, Jesus said, there is only one other Spirit that Jesus gave equal status too when it comes to competing for worship from humans, and that is money or mammon.It does become an issue it is costly to preach this word but it’s more costly not to because if we don’t we end up losing our Christian freedoms that our forefathers died for and we find our self in that place today.

Sid:Now you teach in your book and its brand new and I can’t wait to get this in the hands of our Mishpochah, this is such an important mentoring tool…first, and the second part doesn’t even operate unless you understand the first part which has to do with a theological word called “Justification”; explain that.

Al:  Yeah, the covenant of sure mercy that God gave David, and abled him to continue making his contribution to God’s Kingdom even though he had a major moral failure.

Sid:Here in America in some instances we have a blind eye towards major moral failures, there isn’t the proper repentance, there isn’t the proper getting out of ministry for a season.  On the other hand another group of Christians point the finger at someone with a moral failure that has genuinely repented and won’t allow them even to have a platform.

Al:  That is true and that is very dangerous because when we do that we deny that the gifting and the calling of God never go away according to Romans 11 they are without change, they are eternal.  And covenant of sure mercy enables us then to take an individual and restore them so that they don’t lose their office, they don’t lose their call, they don’t lose the anointing of the Holy Spirit to walk in the office and fulfill the call.  Now what makes the covenant of sure mercy so important to us in this period is that we have to qualify on this mercy side before we can take it to the nations and use the other side of the sword.  And that’s the promise of Isaiah he said, “Incline your ear come to Me hear and your soul shall live and I will make an everlasting covenant with you that the sure mercies of David.  I’ve given him as a witness to the people later and command to the people.”Then verse 5 says “Surely you shall call a nations who do did not know You shall run to You.”  There’s restoration for anyone who has had a failure, there is justification, there is redemption and there is confidence in the throne room in the covenant of sure mercy grantees that.

Sid: You know I’m kind of reminded coming from a traditional Jewish background we have Yom Kippur the Day of Atonement every year in which our sins are atoned for but there’s a remembrance of these sins.  And then the Book of Hebrews talks about a New Covenant with better promises, this is what you’re talking about.

Al:  It is and the fact that Acts 13 says that Jesus guaranteed this covenant in the longest recorded sermon the Apostle Paul ever gave.  He preached the covenant of sure mercy; and then he warned his hearers, he warned them saying “If you don’t take this to heart what is written in the scripture can come upon you.”  And what is written in the scripture he’s speaking of is Acts 13:41 “Behold you despisers marvel and perish for I work a work in your days a work that you will by no means believe though one or two declare it to you.”  That verse appears in two places, it appears in Habakkuk 1, and it appears in Isaiah 29.Those two places Habakkuk first deals with the loss of the nation, Isaiah deals with loss of the city of Jerusalem.  So Paul is saying in Acts 13 “Get a hold of this covenant because if you don’t it’s possible you could lose your nation, or you could lose your city.”   Now that’s a two edged sword, one edge is we have to qualify for it by restoring people in failure, but the other edge is that we have to bring the judgment of God so that the sin that’s filling the land with iniquity will cease and we can gain a harvest from it.

Sid:Explain briefly again what is the covenant of the sure mercy of David.

Al:  The covenant of sure mercy is a two edged sword.It’s the two edged sword of Psalm 149 and verse 6, it’s supposed to in our hand and as believers we’re supposed to swing it.  One edge of the sword cuts away shame, guilt, sin, brings people into justification and restores them.  David went through 8 steps to get there after his sin with Bathsheba, but never again was that sin seen in David’s life.  Now that’s the first edge of the sword, but the second edge of the sword we see in Psalm 143 where David lost Jerusalem to Absalom and he prays.  This is the verse where my religious blinders came off and after two years of God saying “You don’t know David, you don’t know David, you don’t know David.” I saw it; I saw the heart of David.  The heart of David that God said he would rebuild in Acts Fifteen, he would restore so that we could possess cities and nations.  Here’s how he prayed Sid, “In your mercy cut off my enemies, destroy all of those that affect my soul for I am your servant in Your Mercy.”  David understood covenant mercy to him meant God’s dealing with the enemy and stopping their activity which was destroying God’s purpose in his life.

Sid: Since you have been teaching this when Christians get hold of this and start praying this way what happens to people that are preventing the Kingdom of God from operating in their life?

Al:  Well, let me give you an example and this man’s name is Chris and he came to me about two months after I taught this and he was wrestling with how do I implement, how do I invoke the covenant of sure mercy?  And I tried to make it clear, we’re not asking that God hurt anybody, what we’re demanding is God’s justice and then it’s up to Him, that puts judgment in the hands of the Lord.  He is in this business and he’s being accused of doing things that are killing their sales quota and their volume and it’s not him, it’s the man above him.  But this guy is so clever that he has hidden it in such a way that he can pass it down to somebody under him to further complicate this situation.That man who was being dishonest and blaming a junior guy in the firm, that man was a believer.

Sid:Hmm.

Al:  So now Chris’ problem is I have to invoke the covenant of sure mercy but I have ask justice and the one that I need justice from is a believer.

Sid:That’s like two Christian baseball teams playing each other praying that they’re both going to win, okay go ahead. (Laughing)

Al:  But ones dishonest…

Sid:Right.

Al:  and ones lying and you know one is not acting like a Christian at all.

Sid:I understand.

Al:  Chris said, “Okay God I forgive him, I forgive him; now in Jesus Name I invoke the covenant of sure mercy, I put a demand on your covenant for justice, come in your justice and cut off the lies.”  This man got promoted, but he got promoted from sunny southern California to snowy cold Denver.  He went up and as soon as he left the truth came out and Chris received an apology and got promoted.

Sid:Now the various examples you’ve used a few “Are these just coincidences or is this happening again and again and again?

Al:  It is consistent.The reason I have to say it’s a covenantal response is because these people are taking the covenant of sure mercy and they are praying it, and Sid you know I look through scripture, I found it next, I found it in Isaiah.

Sid:How persuasive is this as far as a lot of scripture backing this up?

Al:  Oh, hear is the one that was the absolute kicker for me.My question “Okay God how sure is the covenant of sure mercy?”  It’s so sure that Jeremiah prophesied about it and here’s what he said, “Thus says the Lord if you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night so that there will not be day and night in their seasons, then my covenant may also be broken with David my servant so that he shall not have a son to reign on his…

Sid:  My guest Steve Hill, Senior Pastor at Heartland World Ministries Church in Dallas, Texas.  Steve have you had much experience with Muslims coming to the Lord?

Steve: As a matter of fact I have, Muslims, Hindus, not only here in Dallas, Fort Worth but all around the world.  And it’s a miracle Sid, it’s because of the miracles.  When Jesus shows up religion disappears.  Okay when the power of God comes down and people see, look all through the Old Testament when the power of God came down it divided the people.  You saw who was for God and who wasn’t. So I watch this all the time here in Dallas, Fort Worth.  People come out of curiosity and let me tell you about one Muslim man who came forward, he sat in the front of the church didn’t want anything to do with God and saw the altar calls and didn’t come forward.  Then I walked up to him and I said, “What can I do for you, why are you here?”  And he said, “I’m here to see the miracles.”  And I said, “Can I pray for you?”  He said, “Sure, why not?”  Had his eyes wide open, I knew his Muslim background, laid hands on him and he was hit by the power of God, then he fell to the ground and could not get up Sid and he couldn’t.  And so I got on my knees next to him and I said, “Get up.”  He said, “I can’t.”  I said, “Come on you’re a strong man,” I said “Get up.”  He said, “I can’t.”  I said, “Let me tell you why because God has just showed up in your life, He wants to show you that He is Lord.”  He said, “What do I do now?”  And I said, “Receive Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.”  And he did in a heartbeat, asked Jesus Christ to come in; so Jesus Christ in His power is the answer for everything that’s going on in the world today.

Sid: Steve take me back to Father’s Day 1995 just describe what happened you spoke you weren’t supposed to be there, you spoke at this service on Father’s Day and when was the first moment you realized it was not going to be a normal service.

Steve: Well, Father’s Day Sid everyone knows they should be normal services okay, it’s just Fathers sitting out there with their little boutonnieres and everyone’s ready to go to lunch a nice little sermonette and I stepped off the platform, I asked the people how many wanted prayer?  About 1000 people, 800 to a 1000 people wanted prayer.  And so I stepped off the platform and as I did as people came forward I began to touch them and the power of God came down stronger than I ever felt it and people were starting to be thrown everywhere by the power and I knew that something incredible was about to happen.  We did not get out until 4:00 that afternoon.

Sid:  Now the Senior Pastor John Kilpatrick he was hit with the power of God he wasn’t even preaching and what happened to him?

Steve: Well, let me tell you another secret I’m telling all the secrets on your program, but when I said that how many wanted prayer and he saw all these people come forward he mumbled to himself, he said, “Oh, my God.”  He says, “We’re never going to get out of here.”

Sid: I mean its Father’s Day Mishpochah go ahead.

Steve: And so he came over to help me and when he stepped off the platform he describes it as a current, almost like a literal river and you got people listening right now they’re going “I’ve never heard anything like this.”  It’s about time you start hearing things that you’ve never heard before, because that’s the miraculous and it all about the supernatural, it’s beyond the natural.  And so that the power of God that came down and within a few moments he was hit by the power and he was out under the power for several hours. And we came back, we left out a 4:00 that day, came back at 6:00 stayed till 3:00 and then it rocked on for five years.

Sid:  But I understand that it was at least a week before he could even put his own shoes on, he was so out under the power.

Steve: It was wonderful and you know some of your listeners are going “What does that have to do with, why would God do that?”  I’ve got the answer for you my friend, remember when Saul of Tarsus first got saved, he was totally helpless and useless, you read about it in the Book of Acts because God wanted to get a hold of him.

Sid: They had lead him around like a blind man which he was.

Steve: He sat in darkness for several days okay God wanted to get a hold of the federal headship of this church, John Kilpatrick.  He wanted John to know that there was something coming and that God, not John, was in total control.

Sid:  We’re coming into a new season Steve has God shown you what we can expect to hear in America?

Steve: Well, I am seeing in this new season that you’re speaking of first of all Sid, thank you for speaking on the supernatural, because that is where this is all heading.  We are entering a season of miracles.  There’s going to be miracles and the end result of the miracles is going to be a harvest of souls unlike we’ve ever seen.  That’s why the miracles take place is to prove to the world to the United States and around the world that God is who He says He is.  Jesus is the Son of God and He is here to touch our lives.  And so that’s what we’re about to enter into a time of miracles and harvest, spiritual harvest.

Sid: Now I had a dream last night and in this dream I saw someone that I know casually, I know his name, he’s in a wheelchair, he’s paralyzed from the waist down; he loves God.  When they have dancing in the service he dances in his wheelchair and in this dream I saw him in a bar.  And in the bar he was standing and I was in that dream and I said to the people “This man has just had a miracle.” There were really harden types of people in this bar and you know it actually I wasn’t afraid but I should have been afraid but I wasn’t afraid because they didn’t want me standing up there and saying “This man has just had a miracle.”  But Steve I believe it was a prophetic dream, I believe that guy is going to get healed and I’m looking for him right now to pray for him.  However I believe that was a prophetic dream because it’s not going to be in the four walls, we’re going to walk with that kind of power into bars and see the lame walk.

Steve: Could you imagine, come on Sid you’re getting me, you’re about to make me go wild okay on your broadcast here because my goal is for my shadow to heal the sick.  I want to walk down the road, could you imagine getting up in the morning and going out and get you paper in the morning and there’s people lined up and down your sidewalk and your shadow is being cast over them and they’re jumping up from their ailments and their sicknesses.  This we got to get there, we got to get to the place where miracles are common place.

Sid:  Steve you’ve written a book it’s your latest book it’s called “Operating in the Miraculous.” How did it happen that you wrote this book, what were the circumstances?

Steve: Well, I wrote the book because I want more people to be operating in miracles and it’s the church according the book of Mark “These signs will follow those who believe.”  And if you’re listening today and you’re a believer you should be working in miracles.  And one of the points that we’re going to make sure we get across in this broadcast is… I talk here on some of the keys to operating in the miraculous but I also talk about in this book on why some miracles are delayed or denied.  And one of the reasons they’re delayed or denied is because God is looking for energy, he wants us to go after Him, and a lot of people are like, they want a drive through miracle.  If they don’t get their miracle in five minutes or less then they are going to floor their car and drive out of McDonalds okay.  God is looking for people that will go after Him with all their hearts, soul and strength.

Sid: Can you break that down? What did does it mean to you to go after God with all your heart, soul and strength.  What does that mean?

Steve: It means to be as blind Bartimaeus it means to be as the woman of the issue of blood and for those of you that don’t know these stories Mark Chapter 10, Mark Chapter 5.  Two individuals that when one said, “Jesus, Son of David have mercy on me.”  He kept screaming out and Jesus was paying him no attention, but finally he kept going after so strong that Jesus stopped and he got his miracle.  The woman with the issue of blood had to fight through the crowd to get to Jesus and what kind of crowd listener are you having to fight through your doubts, your fears, family members that don’t believe, fight through all those doubts.  I live like that, my life is not a cakewalk there’s constant battles but I’m not going to let anyone steal what God has for me.  And there’s much much more than what I’ve experienced.

Sid:  But that’s the opposite of instant America.

Steve: Yeah.

Sid: We want everything instantly.

Steve:  Well, Sid it’s almost a curse on America, it’s almost a curse.  I want to encourage you listener to turn that around and fight for your miracle, fight for God to do something special in your life.  Turn the TV off get on your knees in prayer, walk up to someone you don’t know.  Yesterday Sid, just yesterday I prayed for a man that I’ve never met before.  Prayed for his father to be healed of cancer, the man didn’t even know me but he knew that there was power on me.  So yeah, friends reach out there and let God use you.

Sid:  Give me one tip from your book on how to walk in the miraculous.

Steve: Well, one tip is to anticipate miracles, anticipate miracles just like we anticipate a vacation, we anticipate going to the mall, we anticipate going to a restaurant.  Anticipate a miracle, look forward every day to something supernatural come, about to happen and when you live like that then something is going to come your way because you’ve been looking for it.  That’s just one tip in the book.

Sid: Well, you look forward to it, do you actually pray for it, do you…how do you pray in the morning for your day, what do you pray?

Steve: Well, I say “Jesus, we have entered into a new day.”  See I am not alone Sid, and everything that happens to me is Father filtered. So today, and I’ve never met a stranger because Jesus knows everybody whether they’re a believer or not.  So everywhere I go everyone that I walk up to Jesus knows this person, Jesus has been here before.  So my prayer in the morning I say “Let the words of my mouth, the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you oh God my strength and my Redeemer.”  And then I begin walking the day with Jesus side by side and He shows me the people that need prayer, He shows me the places to talk to folks.  Every day is an adventure.

Sid:  Do you find that the more that you operate this way that the more it happens?

Steve: Absolutely, it’s a practice and I want to encourage everyone listening you know get the book “Operating in the Miraculous” start practicing and then remember if you pray for someone and they don’t jump out of the wheelchair, you have not failed.  All you’ve done is practiced you’ve said, “Jesus this is up to You.”  And so in the next person that you pray for may jump up and start running around and pushing the wheelchair.