Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah, now my guest is red hot for the Messiah; you don’t have to be prophet you don’t even have to be a student of the Bible to realize that America is in process of going through a financial shaking as this country has never seen before.  But what is really going on is found in the Bible and I have my friend, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn on the telephone and Jonathan lives in the New York area, so therefore he’s really was involved in the 9/11; not like someone says on the west coast or something like that, and God prophetically spoke to him and he began to see a pattern in the scriptures.  In particular Isaiah Chapter 9 verse 10 and he examined this pattern of what God did with ancient Israel and he’s finding this same pattern is going on with the United States.  And as the best explanation I have ever seen to understand the mystery of what’s behind such things as 9/11; the war in Iraq; the American housing bubble; the bursting or the crash of Wall Street; the global economy’s problems; the great recession and much more; even the President of the United States.  And he calls what he, the pattern of what he saw harbinger; which means the warning.  And it’s as if God is reaching out to the country that he formed to bless the world and saying you’re at the final stages of my warning.  And it’s as if God raised Rabbi Jonathan Cahn up with a shofar in his mouth to proclaim what God has clearly shown in the scriptures and it takes a Messianic Jewish Rabbi that lives in the New Your City area that was part of what happened at 9/11; that has revelation knowledge from the Word of God to proclaim this to you.  Jonathan you talked about these warnings, these harbingers, they’re nine; tell me about some of them.

Jonathan:  Okay, in yeah, in setting that stage that these all happened to ancient Israel in the last days before its judgment and the first thing was this strike.  God removes the hedge of protection; America 9/11 God removes the hedge of protection.  Then God manifests nine harbingers to ancient Israel; all of these nine harbingers or warnings or signs have reappeared on American soil and in precise detail in uncannily and eerily in with, but it has happened.   And it’s involved you touch on, we’ll touch on it in the days ahead everything from the economy to Wall Street; to the President of the United States; to things that happened  on Capitol Hill to ground Zero will get into all of that.

Sid:  You know what I’m so amazed over the pattern of dates, I mean you can figure out to the day when something is going to happen, but you would not have a clue if you did not understand the pattern from the Old Testament.

Jonathan:  Yeah.

Sid:  And from Israel.

Jonathan:  Yeah, we’re going to do you know, one of the things is that we’re going to do you know, one of the thing is that the great, we will get into it another time, but the greatest crashes of Wall Street happened on the exact same Hebrew date that was appointed for it to wipe out finances, amazing stuff.  That’s all going to lead to that and you’re absolutely right, will touch on, we can’t touch on all of course, but will touch on some.  First of all, what happens when the attack comes; the breach of security happens in ancient Israel.  Who was it?  Who did that that was responsible?  They were the Assyrians’; the Assyrians would later be responsible for destroying the nation.  Who is the Assyrians?  Pretty much like the Nazi’s of the ancient world, they are horrible people; they mutilated people; they massacred innocent people; cities would just surrender hearing that they were coming.  The Assyrians were the ones who afflicted our first blow and so who were they?  They were the Fathers of terrorism; they invented terrorism, the Assyrians perfected terrorism.  They are creators of terrorism; they originated it, and so here they applied terror as a tactic against Israel.

Sid:  And that interesting, that’s really where all of those techniques developed that we’re seeing today play out in the streets.

Jonathan:   Absolutely, absolutely, the absolutely, and you can read any, I mean you can go into a history thing it’ll say that the Assyrians invented terror and September 11th that’s exactly what happens.  What happens is strike happens by those who are masters of terror, the 9/11 Alcida and the operatives; they were spiritual disciples of the Assyrians.  And if you look about that, where did the Assyrians come from?  The Middle East.  Where did the terrorist come from? The Middle East; when they invaded the land of Israel the Assyrians spoke a language to each other; the language of ancient Acadian.  Now Acadian is long extinct, but there is one language still existing on earth that is the sister language most closely joined to Acadian and that language is Arabic.  In other words, when the 9/11 terrorists were planning the whole thing out they were speaking the language closest to the same language that was being spoken on the day of Israel’s attack, same thing.  And then what happened with ancient Israel is they became involved in a conflict with an Assyrian Empire that would ultimately ultimately bring judgment 9/11.  America, after 9/11 becomes involved in the war on terror and one of the key things of this, as we all know was the war in Iraq.  What is Iraq?  Iraq is the ancient land of Assyria, the same land of Israel’s judgment; in fact the American soldiers…

Sid:  My goodness we have the mother language of Arabic we have the same region, we have the same techniques, this is getting fascinating.

Jonathan:  Yeah, and the same land, the same exact place and that whole war was; there walking the streets where Assyrian was.  One of the key cities that the American’s had their base was the city of Mosul which has ruins all over.  The ruins are the ruins of Nineveh which is the capital of the land that brought judgment to Israel; so the same pattern.  Now another, so that the terrorists, that the Assyrians, one of the harbingers.  Now another thing when you read Isaiah 9:10 it says, “The bricks have fallen,” that was the attack, “But we will rebuild with hewn stone.”  So what happened?  As the Assyrians came in they destroyed buildings, you know buildings came down; wreckage; ruins but instead of repenting the Israeli’s say, “We will rebuild even stronger; and were going to use hewn stone; we’re not going to…

Sid:  Now wait, what is that mean, hewn stone?

Jonathan:  I was going to go right to right.  In Hebrew that the translation of course, in the Hebrew the word is gahzeet.  The harbinger the gahzeet stone, it means a stone that’s cut, that’s carved, that specifically quarried out of the mountain rock.  It’s different “That the clay bricks fell, but we’re going to come back stronger.” So what they did is, it’s usually a large massive rectangular cut stone; so the people of Israel went to the quarries, went to the mountains, got this large, cut out this large stone brought it back to the place of destruction where the bricks had fallen and they rebuild and they vowed they are going to come back stronger than ever.  The fifth harbinger of judgment, the gazette stone, or the quarried stone; a stone has to be quarried out of mountain rock; a massive rectangular rock of stone.  Brought back to the ground of destruction where the bricks had fallen, laid their as leaders proclaim vow of defiance.  Well, did the fifth harbinger appear in America?  Yes, it happened in 2004, Independence Day.  The people of New York, quarried out a stone of mountain rock, they carved into a massive rectangular block of twenty tons of granite the stone was then taken to New York City, it was there, brought to Manhattan, brought to ground zero, the ground of destruction.  That is what has to happen for this harbinger; the same ground in which the fallen bricks came; they set it in place; they have a ceremony with American leaders gathered around and people, the Governor of New York is there, the Governor of New Jersey is there, the Major of New York and others.  They lead a ceremony around the gazette stone and they actually proclaim vows of National defiance over the stone.  They declare this stone is going to be the beginning of the rebuilding of America, it’s a symbolic cornerstone.  Another, the Governor of New York says, “This stone is going to send a message of defiance around the world.  In one of the commentaries of Isaiah 9, it says that it keeps using the word spirit of defiance; the nation has the spirit of defiance and it’s linked; one of the symbols is the stone.  Well, the Governor of New York at the time when their laying this stone down he says “The act of laying; the laying down this stone he says, “This is, we are the heirs of the revolutionary spirit of defiance.”  He uses the exact same term in the commentaries as we lay the stone.

Sid:  So, what you’re saying is defiant attitude of the Israeli’s at that moment was one of the harbingers or one of the warnings signals and that’s exactly what our government did using the same word that the commentary describes the passage.

Jonathan:  Exactly, exactly and using the exact object that embodies that spirit which was the stone.  It was saying; and if you look, you’ll see the meaning as it, you got to go to Isaiah, it is saying.  The point is it was a symbol saying, “We are not going to be humbled, we are going to come back stronger than ever and this stone is a symbol of our strength and how we’re going to defy all of this without repenting.”  The whole point was repenting and what was there in ground zero was this actual stone that was supposed to be the rebuilding of you know this tower that is going to higher than anything that we ever had before.  It is exactly following the pattern of the ancient pattern given by God of the warning of judgment.

  Sid:  Jonathan, you have delivered this message or parts of it for your congregation and for others.  What response do you get once people put it all together?

Jonathan:  Humm.  Well, I only, interesting I’ve only spoken this message at the congregation “Beth Israel” and the Messiah Conference.  It is really to places and it kind of did twice, the reaction has always been amazing, and people have said, “This thing has to go out, it’s got to go the government,” it started on the web, people started trying to do things on the web and Google, it went really viral, and everybody is kind of stunned as this builds up and it has to go out.  People are saying, my relatives, I have to get my relatives; my relatives have to get this.

Sid:  You know this thing on the stone, if that was all there was we would say, interesting; but you go point after point after point; I mean trust me; Mishpochah it is the most amazing understanding of what is happening right now in America.  It explains what’s going on with our economy, it explains what happened at 9/11; it explains even why we have the President of the United States that we do; it explains all these mysteries…

Sid: My guest, she has been a frequent guest on Messianic Vision is Joan Hunter.  And I have to tell you something Joan, when I first got a hold of your book, “Supernatural Provision, Financial Freedom” and your two CDs, “End Time Economics” and “Financial Freedom.”  I said, “I’m not sure I want to deal with this subject,” and there’s a personal reason, Joan and here’s the personal reason.  I see many people look at God as a Sugar Daddy.  And all they have to do is pray and then they’ll get anything they want and if they give a $1,000 to a particular ministry their marriage is going to be restored.  And I don’t want to judge anyone’s heart, but I almost call it a gospel of greed as opposed to there are Biblical principles and I totally understand them, but it’s almost been abused.  But you don’t want out the baby with the dirty bath water.  You understand where I’m coming from?

Joan: I totally understand and there was a period of time and I believe that the pendulum is swinging back that it was all about me, let’s get rich, rich, rich.  Well the Bible talks about that we are to have so much money that our grandchildren will have a ton of inheritance, which means that we’re going to have a lot of money.  I personally believe we can have all the things of the world as long as the things of the world don’t have us, number one.  Number two, there is more talk in the Bible about finances and blessings than love, which God is love.  And obviously God felt that it was more important to spend time on that and explain Godly principals about finances.  That we figure that well, love, yeah we are really into love, but you know don’t touch my money, don’t talk to me about money.  And, but God wants to supernaturally bless us financially and the thing is that God, I’ve always said for many, many years God wants us to be a river of finances.  Now, I’m hoping and believing God’s given me a couple witty inventions, I have presented them to some companies this week and it was like this is great in the Name of Jesus it’s going to come out and it’s going to bring millions of dollars to me personally and what am I going to do with those millions of dollars?  I’m going to be a river and it’s going to through me right into the ministries.  You know like Messianic Vision, and It’s Supernatural and you know because I’m a monthly partner with you.  Both me, Hunter Ministries and Joan Hunter Ministries are all partners with you and that’s what I want to be.  I want to be a river of finances, help funneling what God is doing.

Sid: And what concerns me is that many people felt the way I felt, they would see that it was almost manipulation over money and they get turned off.  But I’m convinced that we’re coming into some very extreme economic times on planet earth.  And we’re also simultaneously coming in of a shift of the finances into the hands of believers that God can trust.  And if we do not understand God’s principals for or pattern if you will to be blessed financially how in the world can, and this is in reading your literature, how in the world can we fulfill Deuteronomy 8:18?

Joan: That’s right and the thing is as you said a very powerful statement there; God is looking for people He can trust.  He is looking for sowers, not blowers.  Not people that just blow their finances, and in regards to the river of finances, God can use a river of finance, let it flow through to me to help fund the Kingdom of God.  That’s why God is blessing me astronomically and I am so excited to be able, I can’t wait to write out a tithe check for a million dollars, I just think that would be so exciting.  And not to mention all the offerings that go with it.  But what happens is that I was leaving, flying out of Minnesota a few years ago and I look out and of course here is land of lakes and all the rivers and I was looking down at the rivers and I’m like “Father, I just thank you that I am going to be a river of Your finances and I was just praising God.”  And He said, “Look at the river,” and I’m like “Okay, yeah.”  And He goes, “What’s on the side of the river?”  There is banks and you can be a river of finances and yet you’re bank can be full too.  And God wants us to be blessed financially if all of a sudden we get a letter from you know Sid Roth and it says, “I need an extra million dollars to help with this project that I am doing.”  Okay, no problem, here is an extra million dollars.  This is what God wants us to be able to have the capabilities of doing that we can just, as God leads us and as God blesses us that we can direct these millions and billions of dollars into the Kingdom of God.

Sid: You know I’m reminded of a scripture of two scriptures of Romans 11:11 says, “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.”  And I believe that someone like a Joan Hunter will have a dream or a vision and have a new invention and kind of do it on the side, along with everything else she is doing and make billions and then brag on God, not brag on Joan, brag on God.  And boy are you going to provoke a lot of Jewish people to jealousy, and as a matter of fact you are going to provoke a lot of nonbelievers to jealousy.  And the good news is you’re just following the pattern that God has established.

Joan: I have told people, I said, “You can’t win a Jewish person to the Lord if you drive up in a car that is going ka-chunk, ka-chunk.  I said, “You want to win a Jewish person to the Lord, you have more money than them; you have to be more prosperous than them, and I said,” This is what God wants.  He doesn’t want my faith laying hands on my car hoping that in the Name of Jesus that it is going to start, hoping in the Name of Jesus that I have enough fumes to get me to church.  He wants us to…. The word says He’s going to supply all of our needs according to His riches in Glory and the need is a car that works and a need is gasoline for that car, He’s going to supply all of our needs.

Sid: Well, and you know the wonderful thing is that I’m talking to you Joan, someone that was raised in a very prosperous family has never known a day without food on the table, has never known a need in the financial arena; they can preach all they want, but that doesn’t have as much meaning as someone that came from your background.  And the last time I interviewed you I was actually shocked as I realized how tough a background you had because those that are not familiar with Joan Hunter, you are probably familiar with her parents, Charles and Frances Hunter known affectionately as the Happy Hunters, who are now just as happy as ever in Heaven.  But the background you came from; paint a picture of one of the worst memories you have of your financial need as a child.

Joan: As a child I remember just my brother having to go into dumpsters while my Mom and I, I’m like three and five years old are standing on the outside as he is going in there digging for some nasty leftover fruit and giving it out to Mom.  And then we go home and cut out enough for my brother and I to share a bowl of peaches or different fruit.  And I understand what, you know, I would pray, we weren’t saved at the time, so Mom didn’t understand that you know that we could pray and God would supply all of our needs.  And so Mom did whatever she could do to help provide food for us.  And you know it is just her supernatural determination in life that is something that has been passed on to me that if she was a no matter what kind of woman, so am I.  And you just press through no matter how difficult it is.  And you know I thank God that I’m not there now, I can go buy a bushel of peaches and give them away as in comparison to digging  in the trash can to hopefully get enough to satisfy my hunger.

Sid: And you know you picked up some of your Mothers gifting and you’re enthusiasm for how God wants to bless us financially just comes across in your teaching, the two CDs “End Time Economics and Financial Freedom.”  And your brand new book’s literally just off the press called “Supernatural Provision, Financial Freedom.”  You share stories and they are just everyday people, so everyday people can relate.  It’s not someone who has a powerful television ministry that is saying sow into my ministry and God is going to bless you.  It’s everyday people, not necessarily in ministry that are tapping into these principals.  And the enthusiasm that you have that it just jumps off the pages, it jumps off the CD.

Joan: I am a radical giver personally, I love to give, we give somewhere between 30 & 50% of our income away.  And I’m planning on next year giving away more than I made this year and I am so excited I can hardly stand it.

Sid: So if God is looking for someone to trust, do you think that they are going to trust a stingy person or someone that is the river, it just comes in and goes out?

Joan: Get some money and totally blows it on junk, and but He is looking for people that will help fund this end time revival because I know that we could all just use millions of dollars to do what God has called us to do; and to fulfill the vision that He has given us.

Sid: And the scripture that you emphasize a lot is Deuteronomy 8:18 “And you shall remember the Lord your God for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which he swore to your fathers as it is this day.”  And I want you to elaborate on that scripture when we come back but on tomorrow’s broadcast.  But I need you to be one of the end time finance seers of the Kingdom, God needs you.  He doesn’t want you like everyone else.  He doesn’t want you with your hand out, He wants you to be a giver, not a taker and He is going to give back more than you’ve ever imaged or conceived.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to get excited because the Messiah is about ready to return.  And this is God’s set moment I believe, His set time to favor Zion.  There is scriptures that talk about the fullness of the Gentile age and there are two in particular that you should look at.  One is Luke 21:24, it says that fullness of the Gentile age will occur when Jerusalem is in Jewish hands.  Well, Jerusalem is in Jewish hands and then Roman’s 11:25 says partial blindness has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentile age has come in.  And based on what I have been observing and just what God’s been using me for, I have never seen such openness among Jewish people.  Whatever this fullness the Gentile age means, were in it right now and I have on the telephone someone that was handpicked by God to be front and center stage at the fullness of the Gentile age.  I’m reading from the new addition of my book, “They Though for Themselves.”  Now this book literally God came to me, He did in a dream and He said, more Jewish people would come to know Him through this book than anything I had ever done.  And over 850,000 of these books are in print right now and we’re printing them even as we’re speaking right now; it’s being mailed to areas of Siberia in the Russian language where people read books they read.  I mean we’re getting reports of people as a matter of fact I have Dr. Michael Brown on the telephone and he’s one of the ten testimonies in here of Jewish people that believe Yeshua, Jesus is the Messiah of Israel.  And I recently spoke to a Jewish believer in the Messiah from the former Soviet Union and Mike this man said to me that his mother and his sister, his family because of my book and in particular because of your testimony they became believer’s in the Messiah.

Michael: Praise God that’s amazing to hear.

Sid: Let me read a page from the book of “They Thought for Themselves” it’s the chapter that Dr. Michael Brown has written called “Tradition or Truth” subtitled “What I learned about Rabbinic Judaism.”  You don’t even know Hebrew, how can you tell me what the Bible says?  It’s true Rabbi, I don’t know Hebrew, but I’ll learn; in the meantime I can use the dictionary in the back of Strong’s concordance.  Meantime, shmeentime, if you don’t know Hebrew it doesn’t mean a thing.  I will never forget those words spoken to me in 1972; I was a brand new believer in Jesus just seventeen years old and I had been dramatically change.  I mean dramatically only months before I was shooting heroin, using massive quantities of LSD and speed and living in total reckless abandon, my nickname was Drug Bear.  Well I have someone whose former nickname was Drug Bear on the telephone, Dr. Michael Brown, sound familiar that story?

Michael: Yeah, I’m sitting here with a big smile just listening to it; it is still quite vivid in my mind.

Sid: I can just picture you and the Rabbi’s Study giving you the business, but as a result of that challenge that was a God’s challenge.  What did you do with your life as a result of that challenge from that Rabbi?

Michael: Well, my life had been dramatically transformed at the end of 1971, I had gone to a little gospel preaching church to pull my best friends out and in fact I had such a reputation for wickedness that when I first went there a girl who knew me from high school wrote down on her diary antichrist comes to church.  That was me, God dramatically turned my life around in a moment to time really with God dealing with me detail,  I was free of drugs, free of those addictions.  I was living a brand new life, I just could wait to spend time reading God’s Word and praying and telling other people about Jesus.  The problem was I was just reading in English, I had been Bar Mitzvah a few years earlier, but I just learned enough Hebrew to read the words, I didn’t even understand what it meant.  So now I had forgotten what little that I knew and these Rabbi’s were challenging me.  I got to meet more Rabbis’, Ultra Orthodox Rabbis, very religious men, very nice, but they sat there with their Hebrew Bible and I felt like a little child.  I mean I had all these verses memorized in English, thousand of them now by 1973 I’m telling them about Jesus how He’s changed my life and I can’t even read the Hebrew.  So I just decided okay, when I start college I have got to take Hebrew classes.  The college where I’m studying only had Modern Hebrew, so I asked the Rabbi about a good book on Biblical Hebrew, he recommended one.  I went through it, I taught myself Biblical Hebrew and then I thought when I was finishing college I was taking a bunch of other elated languages and I thought I need to go further to really do the study adequately I need to go further; I don’t want to rely on someone else’s commentary.  I don’t want to rely on someone else’s dictionary; I don’t want any Rabbi to be able to look me in the eye and tell me that there is something I don’t know about the Hebrew or their background.  So I continued at New York University getting a Masters and then a PHD in Near Eastern Languages and Literature and had actually written scholarly articles that correct some of the entries in the dictionaries because I had just had to dig and know for myself.  And the interesting thing is my posture was, whatever objections there are I have got to take them on full force, from the secular professors at the University, from the religious Jews that I’m talking to, I’ve got to take on all the objections.  I know my experience with God is real, but it it’s really from God then it’s got to line up with truth.

Sid: And let me ask you a question, were you at a point where you were more interested in truth then being right or wrong and you would have renounced Yeshua as Messiah if you found out that you were deceived?

Michael: God is my witness Sid, I got to a point before God on my face alone with Him, I said, “God, I just want to follow you and your truth, I don’t care what the consequences are.  If it means ultimately that my faith in Yeshua is wrong and I have to take the shame of that and the rejection of all these people I’ve come to know, and be a traditional Jew, then I’ll do it, but if what I believe about Yeshua is true then I don’t care the reproach, the opposition from the traditional Jewish Community, I will follow you.”  And the thing that’s amazing is the more that I studied and the more that I sought God earnestly the clearer it was that my faith in Yeshua, in Jesus was absolutely real and true.  Sid we have nothing to be ashamed of; nothing to hide, the word of God stands with us.

Sid: Today, I understand you read, write or speak over a dozen Semitic languages?

Michael: Yeah, well you know along the way of Near Eastern Languages and Literatures you pick up a lot of different languages, dialects, different things and some of them I remain really fluent and some of them I still work with.  You know it hasn’t been my only focus, but I still love to dig and here’s the Arabic relationship to the Hebrew and the Aramaic and the Acadian and this and that and just dig and understand.  And you know what’s amazing is that when you look at the New Testament authors, some people think, Matthew didn’t know anything, oh Matthew is misinterpreting the Hebrew, oh Matthew pulled this out of context.  No, no, no that’s just superficial level, it’s like if I don’t know anything about physics or science and I hear that science has got this great discovery, e = mc squared I would think, that that’s stupid that proves nothing; well no that proves my ignorance.  The same way that people that says Matthew pulls this out of contexts and this one doesn’t know this.  No, no, no study deeper go deeper the insights of these New Testament authors of Matthew, of Paul when you see how they really understood the text and a larger context, and the insights from the Holy Spirit, it boggles your mind to see how much is hidden there in the Word.

Sid: You know what I also love about you Mike, is that you have a great deal of the Jewish scriptures memorized in Hebrew.  I love it when you start quoting the Hebrew by memory, but wasn’t that almost natural of the Jews in the first century?

Michael: Oh yeah, I mean the society that we live in Sid is pretty much not a literate society; we are kind of an instant society we’ve got everything stored on our computers excreta. We don’t store a lot of it in our heart and in our minds.  But in the ancient world, especially when you didn’t have ready access to books, people memorized, memorization was part of the culture.  And the thing that’s interesting is here, my mind had been fried with drugs, I had no interest in school in my earlier years, now that I got saved, 1971 – 1972 I started to get really hungry for the Word and would read the Word over and over, read the scriptures and I got to the point where for six straight months I memorized twenty verses a day without missing a single day.  Of course it was in English back then, but that laid a foundation for the rest of my spiritual life and it really is.  It’s just part of the Jewish method of studies, you say it, you repeat it, you recite it.  The smart Rabbis that are really into rabbinic tradition, when you deal with them, they’ll just quote the stuff right back at you.  And it’s just kind of a method of Jewish learning.

Sid: You know Mike, one of the things that you do in your chapter that no one else did and as a matter of fact we have such diverse Jews in this book; we have a holocaust survivor, we have a multi-millionaire, we have yourself, a PHD, we have a concert pianist, someone in the New Age, that’s me, I was in the New Age and I got set free.  And we have Jews from atheistic Jews to Orthodox Jews, Israeli Jews.  So someone can take this book and can read it cover to cover and get the whole picture.  I mean, I have talked to brand new Jewish believers in Jesus that knew nothing like you knew nothing except Jesus was Messiah and that was enough but could have gotten talked out of their faith.  They said, for the first time they were able to put everything together and although God told me to write this book for unsaved Jewish people I believe that when Gentiles who do not know Jesus read this book, it will kind of sneak up on them.  They’ll think that it’s for someone else, but they’ll end up becoming believers in Jesus and Christians will have nothing but their faith solidified more than ever before.  On tomorrow’s broadcast few Christians understand the origins and the content of what is known as Rabbinic Judaism today and how it differs from the Judaism of the Torah.  And it’s about time that they not get so mixed up, but you have some quotes from your studies to explain this.  I have to tell me it concerns me, it’s wonderful that Christians love our people and we’re both Jewish, I love our people and that’s right and that’s from God, but I almost feel like many Christians have a greater love for the Judaism which was created by the Rabbis which is so far away from Torah than for the Jewish people.  Do you understand what I’m saying Mike?

Michael: Oh there is a fascination with traditional Judaism that’s come in the church at large and in the Messianic Jewish Community and I’m thrilled that there’s love for Jewish things and love for Jewish people instead of hating Rabbis.  We respect the Rabbis, I think that that is wonderful but there is an almost idolatress fascination with Rabbinic Judaism and as beautiful as it is it is another religion.

Sid: Okay, tomorrow’s broadcast we will talk about it.

Sid: I have in the studio Pastor Bill Ligon who is revealing to you some truths that, if you only had known twenty, thirty years ago.  But guess what, God does not exist in a zone with time, He’s in eternity.  And God is going to make up for the lost time that you have had as you understand what the Jewish Patriarch’s understood, what so few in the church understand today.  Pastor Bill Ligon has spent, “How many years have you spent studying this Bill?

Bill: Since 1973.  That’s thirty-eight years.

Sid: And are you still getting revelation on this subject?

Bill: I still do Sid, everyday, it’s amazing, you know the scriptures are just so full of life and you can always when you go to the scriptures you can always find something new that you didn’t recognize before.

Sid: Now, we’ve talked a lot about husband’s blessing wives and wives blessings husbands.  What about single people that are listening to us right now?

Bill: Sometimes Sid, single people do not have anyone to bless them.  One time I had a lady call me, she was in her mid thirties; she was living alone and she had become very obese and her physician had said,” You must have stomach bypass surgery. She said, “Pastor, what do you think?”  And I said, “Well, you know your physician knows best but I’ve heard that there could be complications, why don’t we try something else first.”  She said, “What’s that?  When I began to talk to her, I said, “I think that you’ve been speaking curses over yourself and so you’re at the point now even when you’re at home at night and your standing in your kitchen as your snacking on all those snacks you get out of the refrigerator you’re saying, “I shouldn’t do this, this is going to make me fat, I’m ugly and I’m fat.  I said, “I want to change that in your life.”   So we began to prepare for her a series of blessings she would speak over herself.  You ar e blessed of the Lord; you’re slim your beautiful; you’re filled with the grace and the love of Lord Jesus Christ.  And then I said, “What do you think your weight should be?”  And she told me what her ideal weight should be so I said, “Okay, I want you every night to stand in front of the mirror; put your hand on your own forehead and begin to say, “May the Lord bless you, call yourself by name.”

Sid: So you can bless yourself.

Bill: Oh, yes, yes, we curse ourselves.  Jesus said, “It isn’t what goes in that defiles you, it’s what comes out or your mouth, that’s what defiles you.”  So if we can change what comes out of our mouths, it can change our lives.  And so she began to speak blessings over herself.  She was standing in front of the mirror at night, she would bless herself, she would begin by saying “You’re blessed of the Lord, God created you to be beautiful, to be lovely, to be slim; the Lord’s filled you with His grace and His love and the Lord’s blessed you to weigh whatever weight it was, a certain number of pounds.”  And she did that every day, day after day, after day for months.  One Sunday she came to our church, she was in another church, but she came to our church and I felt a tug on my coattail and I was standing in the lobby of the church, I turned around and there she stood.  And she put her hand on the back of her head and did a little twirl like girls can do and I realized she wanted me to look at her.  So I stepped back and I took a look at her and I said, “My goodness you look great.”  I said, “Wow, look at all the weight you’ve lost, you are so slim.”  And she said, “Pastor since I’ve been blessing myself I have lost seventy-two pounds,” and that girl never did have to have the stomach bypass.

Sid: How about and this happens too much today, sons that are estranged from their fathers, daughters estranged from their mothers; have you seen a restoration there?

Bill: Oh, definitely.  We were teaching at a conference center in Kentucky and a father from Hopkinsville, Kentucky came to the meeting and he approached me after one of the sessions.  And he said, “Pastor Bill, he said, “How can I bless my son, he lives in Chicago with his wife and he won’t have anything to do with us; he won’t answer my phone calls, he won’t return mail to me, he won’t write to me when I write to him, and he has nothing to do with us at all.”  He said, “How can I bless him?”  And I said, “Well, do you know what his dreams and ambitions are, some of the things that he wants to achieve in his work?”  And he said, “Yes, I do know those things.”  And I said, “Why don’t you start writing him little blessings every week and just drop them in the mail to him.”  Just write a blessings every week, be diligent with it, every week give him a blessing so he began to write blessings every week and several years later, I was back teaching in Kentucky and the man showed up again.  And he had two little girls with him, little bitty girls they were hanging on to his legs and he said, “Pastor let me tell you what happened.”  “I went back home and I began to write those blessings every week to our son in Chicago and after several months the phone rang one day, Dad, this is your son,” and he said, “Thank you very much for sending me the blessings, ever since I’ve been reading those blessings, my life has changed; my home is in much better shape.”  He said, “I’ve received promotion in my work, I’m prospering now in my life,” he said, “I can’t believe what’s happening to me because of these blessings that I’m reading.”  He said, “Thank you so much.” He said, “Dad can we do one thing?”  He said, “What’s that?”  “Could my wife and I come to see you?”  “Oh, he said, we would love to have you.”  So they drove from Chicago to Hopkinsville and stayed in their home for the weekend.  And while they were there they told their parents that they were barren and had been unable to have children.  Well, the parents said, “Well we learned on these teachings on the blessing that if we bless your womb, God will open your womb and give you children.”  They said, “Well, would you do that?”  So they blessed them, and they went back to Chicago and conceived a little girl and then about a year and a half later they conceived another little girl.  And those were the two little children that were hanging on the Grand Daddy’s legs at that time.  He said, “Look here is the product of the spoken blessing restoring my son who was estranged from me in life.”

Sid: After training thousands of people on the power of the blessing, you seem so enthusiastic at age eighty; probably even more so than when you were first getting this revelation on what has been stolen from the church.

Bill: That’s because I am so convinced Sid that God’s intention in the verbal spoken blessing is to release His favor upon His people.  And that’s what I want, I want to see God’s people enjoy the Lord; enjoy His presence and all the abundance of life that He has for them.  And that is the way God has given the opportunity for us to release His blessing and His favor upon His people.  Now the church has been deficient in that and it has been restored to us now and so we need to begin to practice it on a daily basis. Parents and children, employers and employees, neighbors…

Sid: Speaking of employers and employees, give me another example of how it transformed a business person.

Bill: Well, this man in South Carolina called me one day and he said, “Pastor, he said I had no relationship with my Father and I was struggling in my business.”  He said, “One day it dawned on me after I received your material on the blessing that I should go to my father.”  And so he said, “I caught an airplane and flew to where he lived. And he said “When I walked into the home he said, I asked my father if he would study these principal of the blessing with me.  He said, “He would, so he said we spent some sometime studying together and then I asked my Dad, if he would speak blessing over me?” He said, that he had never done that, he had never spoke positive over my life.  So he said he laid hands on me and he spoke success over me, over my life, over my business, and he was writing this letter to me as he was on the plane returning.  He said, “Pastor, I’m on the plane going back home, he said “I have great anticipation, I don’t know what’s going to happen yet, but I have a feeling that there is something different inside of me.”  He came back home and months later, he wrote me again and he said, “I want you to know that my business has turned around, things are prospering life is healthy and wholesome because of the power of the blessing that my Dad spoke over my life.”

Sid: Such a supernatural tool that God has given us and we’ve missed it.  But no more… Pastor Bill would you pray the Aaronic Blessing and deposit the fullness of the Name of Jesus on our people.

Bill: Yes, and as you hear this open your hands up the Lord and remember that it is the Lord that imparts the blessing, I only speak it.  So Blessed are You Lord God King of the Universe, you have commanded this blessings to be spoken over your people, that Your Name might be placed on them and that You might bless them, “So may  the Lord Himself bless you and keep you.  May the Lord cause His Face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you and may the Lord let the light of His countenance on you and give you His peace in Jesus Name. Amen.

Sid: Well, I don’t know about you, but Pastor Bill there is a thick presence of God in this studio and I pray more and more and more of His presence will be deposited on you.  You are blessed, you Mishpochah are blessed by Almighty God; His Name is upon you.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to experience the love of Father God 24-7.  My guest, A.J. Jones experienced that and she wants to help everyone, everywhere experience the love of Father God.  You know I really, I was seeing myself in my father as I listen to your teaching A J on the different types of fathers and let’s face it were an imperfect world, even if you have a good father relatively speaking; you still have some of these six different types of fathers.  Explain a few types of fathers that perhaps some of our Mishpochah may have or may have had.

AJ: Well, there’s the absent father which you know he might be absent because of death, but he also just might be absent because he works a whole lot.  And typically if you had an absent father, I mean what we tend to do with whatever our experience has been with authority figures or our dads or our moms we tend to place that image onto Father God.  And so if our dads have been absent, then we tend to you know live in the world like we’re doing everything on our own, we tend to be very intense kind of people.  And we honestly believe that God’s not interesting in our lives, you know that He’s maybe watching at distant even if we have a relationship with God there is a hindrance to being able access Him because of the way that we view Him.

Sid: So, dependent on how our natural father was; one of these six categories and could have been all six as a matter of fact.

AJ: Sure.

Sid: There’s a degree of our understanding of the love of God the Father that skewed and it has to be fixed.

AJ: Yeah.

Sid: Tell me some other types of fathers.

AJ: Well, the performance oriented father is probably the one that we see most universally and that would just be you’re rewarded as long as your behavior is good, and your performance is good.  But if your performance and behavior is less than satisfactory, well then God’s angry or disinterested or…

Sid: Well, you know what I found in my case?  My father was always very critical to me, of my actions.  How would that mess up my vision of Father God?

AJ: Well then you think, you know as you’re walking through life Sid, you know whenever there’s moments you think I probably could have done better here or you’re probably thinking that God thinks that.  God’s probably thinking critical about you should have been able to do this better and you should know better over here.

Sid: And you know what, I don’t think that, but I’m always thinking I could have done something better always.  So it’s all layers and different degrees which origin is in our natural father.

AJ: Yeah.

Sid: To me I have to tell you, when I listen to your tapes, it really got me thinking about myself in areas I haven’t thought about for years.

AJ: Yeah, that’s great; I mean the good thing is that God can heal absolutely anything right.  So he loves to walk us back through things that are still unresolved so that we can actually get to the level of intimacy that He desires.  We always thing think that we’re the ones that are desiring intimacy with Him, but and that’s true, but He desires intimacy with us so much more, I mean, He wouldn’t have sent Jesus if He didn’t desire it.

Sid: Now, speaking of intimacy that you now have with God the Father, and I have to tell you AJ if you could have that intimacy with all that you’ve been through, anyone could have that intimacy.  And I think that’s why God raised you up what do you think?

AJ: I think that’s exactly it, God is no respecter of persons the Bible’s clear about that and what He will do for me he will do for anyone.

Sid: And you know what, now you’re free to receive everything that God has to offer in this life and one of the things that intrigues me is the very specific dreams God gives you now.

AJ: Yeah, I mean God; yeah God quite frequently gives me dreams within a day or two the exact thing that I’ve dreamt will happen so that’s pretty fun.  Ha-ha-ha, but then He’s also taken me and shown me things that are happening in heaven and it’s just wonderful to not be afraid of God any more so that I can actually hear Him.

Sid: Well, you talk a lot about forgiveness…Give me one nugget that’s very important on forgiveness, or unforgiveness.

AJ: There’s a quote that I quote while I’m teaching on it that says that says “To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then realize the prisoner was you.”

Sid: You know that that’s so profound; I’m going to ask you to say that again slowly.

AJ: Okay, “To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then realize that the prisoner was you.”

Sid: That is amazing, and not only that, the reason that God the Father wants you free so you can walk in everything that he has for you no matter what happens in this world is there’s a great Jewish wedding that’s about ready to happen and you’ve had two visions tell me briefly about the two visions you’ve had of the wedding feast.

AJ: I have had, I had two visions of the banqueting table in stages of preparation and so the first one I had I was getting a tour of heaven by an angel.  And we walked out into this courtyard and there was this table that was so long that I couldn’t actually see where it ended.  But the area around it was decorated and they were putting like the table pieces down the middle; the decorations down the middle.  If you imagine an elaborate table you know they were putting that down the middle you know with candles and stuff.  And just starting to get place settings set out.  And the second time that He took me and He showed me the exact same table, they were putting down the plates on the table and I remember when I saw them putting down the plates and I could see that the decorations were done; we were now getting to the stuff we were going to eat off of.  I remember looking at that and thinking this is going to happen really soon and it was pretty exciting; it was during that whole vision that the Lord showed me the bridal chamber and whole bunch of stuff.  I was just like wow.

Sid: Tell me that second vision though that was at John Arnott’s home.

AJ: The first one was at John Arnott’s home where the angel was giving me a tour of heaven and the second one actually happened in England.

Sid: But you saw something called the library, tell me about that.

AJ: Yeah, yeah it was this huge room and I don’t even know how many stories that it would have gone up, but maybe three or four stories high and it was funny because it was bright and it was beautiful kind of like an old English Library but there was no lights, but it was lit.  So I was sort of confused by that but there was all of these leather bound books, you know just walls and walls of them and the angels accessing them, taking them down writing things in them and then putting them back up.  And I remember asking the angel that was showing me the room you know, “What are these books?”  And he said, “These are the books of people’s lives.”  And I was like, “Wow God, Your really paying attention to everything.”

Sid: Well, He says that in His word, we’ll be held accountable for everything we do.  I’m so glad about repentance and the blood of Jesus to wipe our slate clean and the power God gives us to overcome.  But I want in your words to describe what it was like when Jesus started dancing with you.

AJ: Oh wow, it was awesome, that was after I saw the table and we came back into the ballroom which we had walked through to go see where the wedding feast was and we came back in and I in the vision told Him, I was in this dress all of a sudden and I was like, “I don’t know how to dance, I don’t know how to do this.”  And He said, “You can stand on my feet and I’ll show you.”  And so I danced with Jesus, but I was standing on His feet and just dancing through the ballroom.  You have to understand the impact of that visual for me was incredible because when I was a teenager after my relationship had been restored with my Dad I had gone to this building opening with him and I remember he asked me to dance and we were; and I went out there and I said, “I can’t dance I don’t know how to dance,” and he had said, “You can stand on my feet.”  And so the Lord had echoed back to me a moment of intimacy that was an invitation to go to a place of intimacy with God that I hadn’t been yet.  And it was amazing, it was life changing.

Sid: We know how your relationship was; it was a disaster, what’s your relationship with being in God’s presence 24-7?

AJ: Well, as I said, you know it changes everything, and my life is a 100% different; I have a wonderful husband and two wonderful kids and I’m in full time ministry and the Lord shows up and changes lives and he really has redeemed everything that I’ve been through to help other people go through things and be able to walk into God’s hands and know that He’s going to take care of it.

Sid: Do you know what this is all saying to me, God knew that, God has every hair on your head numbered.  Not two sparrows fall to the ground without Him personally being aware of it and of how much more value are you.  I tell you right now by the Spirit of God you have value!  Yes, you, you listening to me right now, you; you have value.  God’s even healing people with back problems right now.  But I have to tell you, as you come into intimacy with God the Father and recognize how He values you, how he has the best interest for you at heart.  As you realize that we’re so fast approaching the return of Jesus and He has an assignment for you.  You will not fulfill your assignment until you understand your Father, your heavenly Father’s love for you and walk in it twenty-four seven.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Kerry Kirkwood. We’re talking about the ancient power of the Jewish blessing. Kerry, tell me about the man that got ahold of this teaching and what happened. He had a quadruple bypass, and that means his arteries were clogged up. And what happened when he started blessing himself?

KERRY: Well he began to hear about the blessing. And so he said, “I bless my arteries. According to Psalm 139, ‘I’m wonderfully made’ and these are the arteries that God gave me. Thank you, Lord, for these arteries.” And he did that over a period of time. Everyday he’d get up. “Lord, thank you for these arteries that they’re wonderfully made…” So he went back to the doctor to have his checkup. And the doctor showed him, he said, “This is very unusual.” He said, “What’s this?” And he said, “Look here. Here is the bypass that I put in, but you have grown a natural bypass. Your body had grown a natural bypass to go around the bypass that I put in.” He said, “It’s phenomenal.”

SID: I think that’s phenomenal. But even more phenomenal is the understanding from Scripture when happens when you curse someone rather than bless them.

KERRY: Exactly. When you curse you’re declaring something in the dark side. And then we put ourselves in opposition with what God is really saying.

SID: You were talking about Galatians 3:13. Explain that.

KERRY: Yes. Well Galatians 3, when he talks about that Jesus died on the cross to redeem us from the curse of the law; and that curse means that a lower position than he what he really intended for us to be. So if I’m cursing you, then that means that, because Jesus died for you, he will defend those who are under the curse. And so that means that I’m put on pause because I can’t go any farther because of the cursing that I’ve done. And many families have seen prayers unanswered; and it’s like they pushed the pause button to their life; and they don’t see anything good happening because they have a mouth full of cursing; and their opposition to the very thing that Jesus came and died to do.

SID: Tell me about the woman that did not like her boss for beans.

KERRY: Yes. She was sitting in a school where I was teaching this. And she said, “I need to bless my boss, but I really should blast him,” is what she said. And I said, well the principle is true, that when you bless those who despitefully use you, then things can be reversed. So I just challenged her to try it. It’s not how you feel. It’s what the Word of God says. So that was on a Wednesday. Thursday, she went in. She was the office manager. And she went around and she started blessing the place, actually the sanctuary there of where they worked in the business. And so she went to where her boss would be setting and blessed the place, and this is a place of peace and so on. Well she did that again on Friday, and she blessed everyone around her that she was connected with, coworkers and so on. She noticed that the environment began to change somewhat. And so on Friday afternoon, her boss called her in to the office and said, “Sit down.” And she thought, “I’m going to be fired because we haven’t been getting along.” And he said, “I know that we have been confrontive with one another, and I need to apologize to you. I withheld raises from you just simply because I’ve been upset with you.”

SID: Now I believe that Kerry is speaking to you right now. Did you hear what the boss said? I withheld raises from you. What happened after he repented?

KERRY: Well he said to her, “From this day on, retroactive…”

SID: Retroactive?

KERRY: Three months earlier. “You should have had this raise three months earlier.” He gave her the raise retroactive three months. So where she was withheld and her life was on pause; when she started blessing it released what was God’s intention for her to have; which was this raise.

SID: Now briefly, tell me about someone’s marriage that was restored.

KERRY: Yes. It’s an incredible story. I was in Houston and a man came up to me, and he was very angry and upset. He said, “My wife is at the courthouse filing for divorce right now.” And he says, “This blessing, does it work – for anything?” And I said, “Yes it does. I can tell you stories where it does.” And he said, “I’ve been married 32 years, never been in love in my life at all. I’ve been in Iraq, away as a contractor; and I don’t know why I married her in the first place.” And I said, “Sir, you have the wife that you cursed because you created this environment in your home. Or you have the wife you bless. The power of life and death is in the tongue. You choose which one you want.” And so he listened to a CD that afternoon. And when his wife came home from the courthouse, he was standing at one end of the hall and she came in the front door. And when he saw her, he practiced it. He said to her, “You are a gift from God; and the Lord has put us together as a helpmate, and I love you.” And she said that the words became tangible. And as he was speaking to her coming down the hallway, they were tangible; like they were rolling. And she said, “It smote me in the chest. For the first time, I felt liquid love running through me; and I began to see this man in a different way than I’ve ever seen him before in my life.” And when I was back there in a month or so later, he came up to me and said, “Hey, you remember me?” And I said, “Yeah.” I thought this is that angry man. He said, “I want you to meet my wife.” And her countenance was aglow. It all changed by changing the way he spoke, changed his marriage and the covenant he had.

SID: That quickly while she was in the courthouse! That is phenomenal. And by the way, we’ve checked these things out. We’ve actually interviewed people that were eyewitnesses of many of these things that we’re talking about. Kerry, I love it when you perform a Bar Mitzvah. Explain why you do that and give me one example, quickly.

KERRY: Well there’s an old saying we have, I grew up with anyway, and that is, “You’re never a man until your father says you are.” It’s a right of passage. Of course, in the Jewish culture, they have their rights of passage, the Bar Mitzvah; Bat Mitzvah for the ladies. And so I’ve been in meetings to where, that were ministry, those who have been preaching for a number of years; their ministries have been good, but they felt like there was something lacking there. And so we would do a Bar Mitzvah. One dramatic example I know was a pastor. And he was thinking, as we were ministering to the other leaders there in the room; he thought to himself, “This isn’t necessary. This is just a so outward thing.” And he didn’t think anything about it. We came to him. His name is Bruce. We laid hands on him and said, “This is my son in whom I’m well pleased.” Same words that were spoken at Jesus’ baptism. And we blessed him, began to speak over him that he was a son; created in the imagination and the thought of God. Something happened to him so strongly. He fell out of his chair; he rolled up in a fetal position and began to weep. He told us later, he said, “My father, my natural father, never said anything good about me at all. And when you said that, I felt like I had been accepted.” And since that time, his ministry has taken off. It’s taken on a whole other dimension; simply because of him being blessed.

SID: In the next two minutes, I want you to bless those that are watching us. Would you do that right now?

KERRY: May the Lord release you to fulfill the very purpose of God; that He’s called you to and ordained you. May you fulfill all the desires that God has for you, and may you sense the longing and the hunger of God for your own life. And may you not be intimidated or threatened by anything. You’ll not be the tail, but you shall rise up, and see your life come into its full destiny, in the name of the Lord.

SID: And God is telling you about certain people right now. Very quickly.

KERRY: Yes. There’s a lady that’s in Atlanta, Georgia. Your name is Barbara. And Barbara, you feel like your life has been, the best spent as the year’s over. And the Lord is saying to you right now, that your best years are still ahead. In fact, the very things that you feel like were mistakes in your life, and you can’t get over them; and that has brought you into a level of cursing; to where you hear things spewing out of your own mouth, that’s very negative and very opinionated. The Lord is giving you a taste of who He is. And it’s going to be like, “O taste and see the goodness of the Lord.” And He’s changing your life right now. That out of your heart, you’re going to be seeing the goodness of the Lord in the land of your living; and things are going to change for you. Let Him change your heart and change your tongue.

SID: If you want to experience the pleasure of God, make Jesus your Lord. With your mouth, ask him to live inside of you. Ask for the forgiveness of your sins because of his shed blood, and begin to use your tongue to bless. As you do that, for the first time in your life, I tell you; I tell you! You are going to experience such a pleasure. You’re going to be like that runner that says, “I was born to run.”

SID: I’ve always been intrigued with, in the Gospel of Matthew, the 25th chapter, there’s a separation between goats and sheep. There are goat nations and sheep nations. A goat nation has a mind of its own. A sheep nation follows the shepherd. And in Matthew 25:40, we know the one sin that causes a nation to be a goat nation or a sheep nation. The one sin is, “As you have done onto the least of these, my brethren,” and in the Greek, the word “brethren” means “those from the womb”. “As you have done onto the least of these, my physical brethren from the womb, it will be done unto you.” Now I have a question for you, Chuck. You see a division of the states in the United States. And will this be the issue that will release the judgment of God on some states, and have other states walk in blessings? Explain this.

CHUCK: See, Sid, I think God is a God of restoration. He wants to restore us back to His original covenant plan. The earth is the Lord’s in the fullness thereof. He wants the blessings of Heaven to align with Earth. He wants us to produce the garden that He intended in the earth realm. But in the midst of it, I think we’ll rebel against that. And with that, in America, the real issue is going to be each state’s relationship with Israel; not just a nation relating to Israel, but each state. I think you will start seeing how states are blessed based upon their relationship with Israel. Right now, Texas, for instance, has an economy that’s growing. Texas has made a proclamation that it is aligned with Israel. You’ll see its economy shift differently than other economies.

SID: Now I’m even seeing countries based on their position with Israel. For instance, Canada has done some pretty good things in reference to Israel recently.

CHUCK: God sent me to Canada with a tallit. I had a double tallit from Israel.

SID: A prayer shawl.

CHUCK: A prayer shawl. And He said a new prayer mantle needed to come across Canada. This was five years ago. He said, ‘you start in Vancouver.’ I gave it to David Damien. He took it all the way across Canada. The government changed. In this May issue, Canada stood and said, “We will stay focused and aligned with the Nation of Israel.” The unequivocally said, “We are aligned with the God of Israel and this nation will be aligned.”

SID: And, you know, curses can change. For instance, take Germany. Germany was under a horrible curse. Look what happened to them.

CHUCK: The worst curse that the world has ever known probably.

SID: Six million Jews. But now they’re being blessed. Why?

CHUCK: Well they’ve made proclamation. First of all, they went back and they restored wealth back to Israel that had been taken from people. Wealth that they had documented was sent back. Then they have made the statement, “We will align with Israel as opposed to other nations that are anti-Israel.”

SID: What did God show you about China?

CHUCK: God showed me that China is going to be our most influential nation. Now China, yes, is a communist nation, and we all know that. But what China will do is it will have the greatest movement toward Israel. Economically, it will align with Israel. It will align with Israel for a season; now for a season, and get military technology from Israel. It will have an incredible alignment. That is going to cost China. And when God showed me this in ’86, I said, by 2016, China becomes the most incredible economic power in the world. IMF said it would be 2032. They have come back, three months ago, and said it will be 2016.

SID: They should have checked with you.

CHUCK: Well they should have checked with God, I tell you.

SID: Okay. Now you talk a great deal about, we, the believers in this country, as we see things getting so decadent; that our spirit is going to be vexed. Explain that.

CHUCK: See, the environment around you, the atmosphere around you, like Lot, righteous Lot’s spirit was vexed. The atmosphere around you can vex your spirit man. That causes it to be annoyed and controlled by the environment around you; conformed by the environment around you. Romans 12:1-2 says that. So what I see happening is you have a choice. And I see Christians coming into an understanding of the concept of where we began: one new man. God’s plan of fullness: Jew and gentile; and a triumphant remnant rising up with their spirit man free. “The spirit of man will withstand its infirmity.” That’s what the Word of God says. And all those things that are attempting to weaken us, we rise up, and we become a remnant with a voice that is powerful; doing supernatural exploits, as Daniel 12 says.

SID: I tell you what; I’m just getting so excited as I hear him share what’s about ready to happen. It’s going to be the worst time in the history of Planet Earth, and the best time in the history of believers. But Chuck, there’s something separating people from the blessing that you and your family received; that I’ve received, that my family has received; and that is there is a curse of anti-Semitism. Lead us briefly to repent for any anti-Semitism we have as individuals.

CHUCK: Now all of you out there that’s listening, you have to understand; He is the Father of our spirits. No matter what your bloodline is, no matter what your bloodline has done, you can bring your blood under the Father of your spirit and your blood can be cleaned by His spirit. I decree right now in the name of Jesus, Yeshua; the one who came to shed his blood; that your blood will be set free of anti-Semitic rules. Where you have resisted the prophetic, you will start hearing God in a new way. Where you have come against and tried to dominate and manipulate others; you will begin to love others in a way you’ve never loved them. I decree that anti-Semitism will not rule you, and a hatred for the God of Israel, who had created a first-born nation and made covenant with them; so we would understand the Covenant of God; you will start now understanding the Covenant of God. I repent on behalf of American mindset, and I say now our minds will begin to change; and know God’s covenant plan and His blessing, and take a stand on that behalf.

Sid: You know one of the things I’ve learned after forty years of investigating the different streams of healing is many people understand one way, one stream if you will and in fact they’re negative over the other streams because they’ve seen it works in their teaching.  So maybe the other is wrong; but they’re wrong, because God is so big that I believe that when you hear my teaching of what I’ve learned in over forty years of investigating the supernatural power of God in healing with the greatest anointed men and woman and of our day and the secrets that they’ve learned and the keys that they’ve learned of healing that one or more of these methods that people have learned by the Spirit of God is going to be instrumental in the key for you to be healed.  And then to compound it, if you could compound it, we’re going to do it, we have a CD by Don Heist “It’s called Take Me In” I mean he is a modern day Psalmist.  His instrument of choice is the shofar and I love what the ancient Rabbis’ say, they say that when the shofar is blown all the promises of the Jewish prophets from Genesis to Malachi go into the atmosphere and what happens is it changes the molecular structure.  They don’t say that part, I say that part, but with all those promises and then when you have a New Covenant believer blow that shofar all of the New Covenant by all the New Covenant prophets go into the atmosphere and you have an explosion of the One New Man.  And it reminds me of Ezekiel where it talks about a river in the temple and it comes up to your ankles, and then to your knees, and then to your waist and then you have to swim.  Well where it says river, you even look this up in the amplified Bible it says, in the Hebrew Twin Rivers.  And it says, wherever these Twin Rivers go there is healing.  Some ones neck was just healed.  I want to go to this teaching, let you hear a little excerpt of it and then I’m going to end it with Don Heist blowing that shofar and I believe that many of you are going to have an eruption of healing.  …Let’s go to that teaching.

Sid teaching excerpt: Isaiah Chapter 53 verse four, “Surely He has born our griefs, I read this to my Orthodox Jewish Father, Isaiah 53^rd written 800 years before Jesus came to earth.  He said, “Stop, you’re reading about Jesus.  I showed him, this is the Bible that my Rabbi gave me look.  Here’s the Orthodox Rabbi’s name.  He was so convinced I was reading about Jesus.  By no commentary, just reading a passage of prophecy about Jesus that was written by the Jewish Prophet Isaiah 800 years before He came to earth.  That’s pretty convincing for me, because he didn’t want to believe that.  So Isaiah 53 verse four says “Surely He,” that’s the Messiah has born and that’s the scape goat that would take away the sins of the world the priests would put his hands on the goat, they’d lead the goat away.  That’s the same word, born away; our grief’s and carried our sorrows.  He paid the price for every emotional traumatic problem you have ever had or you ever will have He paid that price.  But in the Hebrew it’s more than the emotional range; in the Hebrew instead of griefs where it says, “Surely He has born our grief’s it could be translated sicknesses.  Surely, not maybe, not hopefully; not menyana, surely He has born, carried away, meaning not on us anymore.  Our sicknesses, surely He’s done that, surely how could you not realize, surely He’s done that, I’m convinced, surely He has done that.  And then in the Hebrew it says and rather than carried our sorrows it can also say, carried our pains.  Did you see the people that raised their hand?  There pain just went on Him and he carried it away; that’s what He did.  Our sicknesses, our pains, our grief’s, our sorrows and by His stripes and in the Hebrew the word is not stripes, most Bibles translate it that way it is stripe singular, by His stripe.  In other words it started out as stripes, but then He was one bloody mass of stripe.  One stripe, all blood, all cut, all suffering, all pain, all sickness, all disease, one stripe and by His stripe you are healed.  Now the word stripe, in the Hebrew is an interesting word, it has another meaning, and it means by his fellowship you are healed.  So not only by His stripe with the wound were you healed, but by your intimacy with Him you are healed.  Boy there’s a healing wave going through this auditorium right now, there’s a healing wave going through this auditorium.  You must understand authority; it’s very important.  In Matthew 6:10 Jesus taught “Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.  Any sickness in heaven?  Any poverty in heaven?  Any family problems in heaven?  Your will be done on earth, who taught us to pray this?  Jesus, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven speaks for itself.  Matthew 28:18 “And Yeshua came and spoke to them saying “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.  In heaven and on earth.  Verse 19 “Go therefore, therefore is there for a purpose, when you see therefore, look what was said just before.   So if He says, Go, why is He saying go?  We have to see what was before “And Jesus came and spoke to them saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth, go therefore, He wants you to go because He has all authority and He’s given it to you; you follow?  He wants you to go, Luke 10:19 “Behold, (this is Yeshua speaking to you and speaking to His disciples, He’s saying “Behold, I give you the authority, all authority has been given to me, it says, behold I give you the authority.” Do you got that?  I give you the authority, I give you the authority, I give you the authority. I give you the authority. I give you the authority. I give you the authority.  “Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents, and scorpions, and over all; do you like the word all?  “All the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”  Nothing, all, authority in heaven and earth is given to Jesus, therefore you’re to go because I have given you all power, you got it, I got it.  Ephesians 3:20, “Now to Him who is able to do, (get this in your spirit) exceedingly, abundantly above all that we even ask for all that we even imagine, or think according to the power or the ability that works in us.  Say, “His power works in me!”  Alright, it gets even better, 1^st John 4:4 “You are of God little children and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.”  Whose is them?  People controlled by the devil.  What does the devil do?  Kill, steal, and destroy, (sickness, disease, poverty problems in families.)  But what is He saying, if that’s who them is, you are of God, little children, you are not them, you’re not them, that’s not you, you’ve overcome them.  Because He who is in you is you is greater than anything in the world.  Don Heist’s shofar excerpt: 11:26.3 – 12.29.6

Matt: Yeah, that was when I was a student in Bible School and we were traveling on the weekends, ministering and you know I was brand new to any type of preaching ministry, I wasn’t necessarily a polished preacher; but they had asked me to preach and minister at this youth convention.  So I’m up there preaching and I’m ministering and it was up in Maine so you know it was a bit of a religious atmosphere, the kids weren’t really into it; I could hear them talking while I’m preaching.  They’re popping bubbles as they’re chewing their gum and I’m thinking to myself, this is just not going anywhere I see the youth pastor on the front row looking at his watch and I’m thinking this you know I’m just going to close the meeting now.  So I invite the piano player up to just kind of play a few chords and I’m going to close in prayer.  And as the piano player starts to play I lift up my hands and I remember this moment, I lift up my hands to God and I say a prayer and I say, “Holy Spirit you are welcome in this place” and the words came out of my mouth a tangible wind came from over my head and it blew down over my body and then I felt it from the behind me blow past my body.  And as this tangible physical wind, not a spiritual wind a physical wind of God’s presence blew past me it hit the whole first row of kids and the second row.  And without me saying anything, giving an altar call or anything at the same time they stood up to their feet ran to the altar, threw their bodies on the floor, started weeping, crying, shaking under the power of God.  I mean it was a visitation of the tangible power of God.

Sid: Matt, that’s a wonderful story but I was thinking about what happened when you spoke in West Virginia, briefly tell me that.

Matt: Yeah, that was another powerful service where you know it started out on the rough side, worship started at 7:00 and you know the worship was still going on at 8:30 and I looked around the room and I saw half the room sitting down, the people weren’t worshipping and I thought to myself, God this service needs a lot of help you know.  This service was suppose to be a revival meeting and it’s just kind of dead, I don’t feel Your presence here and then at 8:30 as I was just about to get up to transition the meeting with a program with the announcements let’s just go on with the service the Holy Spirit spoke to me.  And He said, “Matt, My power is going to hit this place at 9:00 tonight.”  And I looked at my watch and I saw that it was 8:30 and I said, “God that’s a half hour from now.”  And all He said to me was, “My power is going to hit this place at 9:00.”  So I stood up to the pulpit and I told the people exactly what I heard from the Father, God just spoke to me. He said, “His power was going to hit this place at 9:00 tonight.”  As the words came out of my mouth it was like an electrified faith shot through the room.  People jumped up to their feet and started worshipping; so we worshipped for another half hour and I’m looking at my watch just about 9:00 as the clock strikes 9:00 a tangible wind blows through the room.  Now I had told about a half hour before, I knew God was going to do something special so I told the ushers, I said “Shut the fans off, shut the air conditioning off because when God moves in this place tonight I want you to know that it’s the Holy Spirit and not the fan blowing over your head.”  So there was no air movement in the room at all and as the presence of God invaded that service a physical wind blew over the people; they could feel like a warm breeze blowing by them and then some could feel the fire of God go from the top of their head all over their whole bodies.  And I called out to the people, I said, “If the power of God just healed you, get up here right now.”  And people flooded the altars from one side of the altar to the other side standing shoulder to shoulder; major miracles I mean no hands were laid on anybody.  It was just God invaded the room; His glory filled the whole place on mass and miracles broke out all over the room and there were some really significant healings.  One woman in the front, she was standing in the front and center, she had twenty-five years of fibromyalgia and it was so severe she had medication every day, but she still had pain.  She said, “From the top of her head to the soles of her feet and as I stood there in front of her the presence of God came on her and she fell under the power of God.”  Now I’ve never seen anything like this; I call it, I make a little joke about it but the Lord gave her pancake anointing; and basically what he did was He took her body and He flipped her on one side and then the other side and then the other side.  And then her legs and arms shot straight up into the air and I thought how is she physically doing this?  It was something very unusual, and then her body just collapsed on the floor and we helped her stand up and I asked her, I said, “What just happened to you?”  She said, “I’ve had fibromyalgia for twenty-five years, pain in every part of my body and I just felt out of my arms and legs I felt something getting pulled out of my body.  And all of the pain is completely gone.

Sid: You know, I happen to believe that because you’re teaching is so balanced is the reason that God can trust you with this power.  And one of the major highlights in your life I believe occurred in 2009 just before Oral Roberts was promoted to Heaven you had a meeting with him.

Matt: Yes.

Sid: What happened?

Matt: Yes, I had a meeting with Oral Roberts, I spent the afternoon with him and just a small handful of other people and this was shortly just months before he went home to be with the Lord.  We spent the afternoon with him, talking with him, asking him questions; he prayed over each one of us and I asked him, I said, “Dr. Oral what was the secret to your Miracle Healing Ministry?  And he said to me, and I was really intrigued by his answer, he said to me, “That many people would think that faith was the key to his Miracle Healing Ministry.  He said, but it wasn’t just faith, he said, “He knew that he had faith just because the word of God said that he had faith, every believer has faith; so he didn’t really seek after faith, but when he would go he would go into his crusade meetings he would go into the hotel room alone and pray.  And when he would pray he said that that he would ask God for love.  That he aggressively sought the love of God and as God’s love was shed abroad in his heart for the people that the miracles exploded in his crusade meetings as a result of a Baptism of Love.  And that was a principal that God taught me how supernatural love, the love of God in us is a key to releasing God’s power through us.

Sid: So out of curiosity, do you pray for a Baptism of Love before you speak now?

Matt: I in my prayer time I ask the Lord to fill my heart with His love to shed His love abroad in my heart for the people because I know that when you love the sick there is something like Jesus, you know the Bible says that Jesus was moved with compassion.  When He was moved with compassion there was a power released through Him to heal the sick.  Even in inconvenient times for Jesus you know, there was a time where Jesus just found out that John the Baptist was beheaded and that was His cousin so, that’s a family member for Him.  Jesus was human just like He was God; He was a man so He had emotions too and He had just found out John was beheaded so He’s going off to a solitary place just to alone with God just to pray and the crowds follow Him.  And even though it’s a time of need for Jesus where he probably has to process what He’s feeling, all of a sudden all of these people are around Him and the Bible says something extraordinary, that as He sees the people His heart is moved with compassion for them.  And He forgets about himself, He puts His own stuff to the side and He starts to minister the power of God to the multitude and they’re all getting healed.  And you know the Lord brought me to the scripture where it says, “Faith works through love,” in Galatians Chapter 5“Faith works through love” and if you study it in the Amplified Bible it says “Faith motivated, energized, set into motion by love.”  And He showed me that faith, yes faith is a key to plug into the power and the supernatural, but it’s the love that activates our faith that energizes and actually empowers our faith to go into motion to release the miraculous and to release the demonstration power.

Sid: I am certain that that is one of the missing ingredients, is in fact you teach on character, I don’t hear too many people doing that, you teach on love, and you teach on how to be transformed yourself to reach a saturation point with the power of God.  As a matter of fact I believe that God has given you an anointing that when people listen to your teaching or read your books they have that same hunger you had as a young kid to just give yourself just completely to God and press in most people don’t press in, that’s the problem…Three angels were literally laying hands on Matt Sorger as he was writing…

Sid: I can just hear the emotion in Paul’s thinking and in his voice when he wrote in the last line of second chapter of the book of Ephesians it makes a dwelling place and in the Spirit I’m hearing a complete dwelling place of God by His Spirit.  And we’re coming into that point in history and that’s why God is sensitizing the Church to fulfill their Biblical God given destiny.  What is that?  It’s found in Romans’ 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy.  And the purpose of your life in writing by God is to reach Jewish people with the gospel, mature them in them in the faith, combine these two anointings to make the full dwelling place of God by His Spirit.  Now Chuck Pierce, you have no reason in the natural to have this understanding that you have about the One New Man, the Jew and the Gentile, the nation Israel, but when you were eighteen years of age you found yourself in the hospital and you were a captive audience to a Pentecostal Preacher.  Tell me about that.

Chuck: Well, you know how God is so sovereign and He just puts you where you’re supposed to be and again I had a very spiritual grandmother and she had warned me that it was not my destiny to go the same way as other members of my family had gone.  And my Dad had died a premature death and he had gotten everything of our inheritance all messed up.

Sid: He was an alcoholic.

Chuck: He had fallen into alcoholism, now I do want to say, “He was a very very gifted man, a very prosperous man; he was one of those guys that could; whatever he touched would prosper.  He had some godliness in his family.”  It was an amazing what happened;  I found myself drifting and this godly Grandmother said, “I refuse for you to go that route,” and the next thing I know I have collapsed and I’m in the hospital, I’m under oxygen.  Of course my Grandmother is a nurse in the hospital and then in the midst of it, God puts me in the hospital room with a Pentecostal Pastor.  And he introduces me to the Holy Spirit, I did not know anything about Holy Spirit, I knew, I had had an experience with Jesus in a Baptist Church when I was eleven.  But I didn’t know Holy Spirit and he introduced me to Holy Spirit.  He got out of the hospital, I remained in the hospital for another ten days and three days God came down and visited me in that Hospital.  It was in September 1972 and it was just amazing what happened in my life.  He told me and hears really the nutshell of what happened, He said, “Now you got to get into the Word,” and so I did a couple things; I started reading the Bible through, but I would read a Psalm and a Proverb.  I read Proverbs 3 while I was in the hospital because it was that day and I got to the place where it said, “If you will give me your first fruits, I will heal your nerves and I will also fill your barn.”  Well, my Dad had when he died, we ended up, we had 400 acres and we had empty barns and I was in the hospital and my nerves were fraid.

Sid: So you understood that completely.

Chuck: I understood that completely, I understood that word, it came alive to me and I had to ask the Lord a question, “What do you mean by first fruits?”  And the Lord began to unravel the word.  Now there was one more thing that happened Sid, because again I told you I started reading the book of Genesis because this pastor had mentioned Genesis to me and understanding of it and I got to the twelve tribes.  You know the twelve sons of Jacob; my Dad had acquired the land from the twelve siblings in his family’s bloodline and all of a sudden I started seeing God’s promise over these twelve tribes and I thought to myself, this was my thought, “Now if God can promise this to these guys, and a bunch of them already had messed up; and I knew that He had a promise over my life.”  Then God spoke to me; now when I say He spoke to me, it was so loud in my Spirit it was as if He was in the room with me.  He said, “I can restore what you have lost.”  And all of a sudden that word, wrapped up with the concept of these twelve tribes there was something God put so deep in me about Israel, it’s plan of restoration, my plan of restoration, that the two since that day have been inseparable.

Sid: And in effect isn’t that what you’ve have attempted to do in your brand new book of “Time to Defeat the Devil?”

Chuck: I have attempted to show people how…

Sid: How to restore everything that was stolen from you; what was stolen from you has been restored and now you’re teaching these principals to people what has been stolen from them can be restored.

Chuck: Listen Sid, that word was so deep in me, I tell you what, it’s like it’s so deep, it went so deep in me when He sent that word into my heart, and into my life.  It went into my blood stream.  God began a work in me and I can honestly say this and all of you that are listening to this, my entire family now, is restored and things that were lost has been restored back.  Now to do that I had to understand who my enemy was and it wasn’t anybody in my bloodline; it wasn’t anybody in the earth; I had to come into a supernatural realm to understand who the true enemy was that had taken and destroyed what God had intended my family to have.   And I tell you what, I went to war with him then, I’ve been in war with him ever since and I am excited to say, no matter who is listening out there you can overcome and move forward in your life into the fullness of what God has for you.

Sid: And I’m so excited the revelation and you know there are many people that teach line upon line and Chuck does this, but he teaches with a gift of revelation; and many of you are going to see the keys that you’ve been crying out to God for for the change for the real change that you need in your life.  Now Chuck I want you to clarify something to me; earlier in the week you talked about a four hundred year curse that came on this country from slavery.  And how and you said that when President Obama became President it broke that curse, yet this country is more divided racially than I’ve ever seen it in my life time.

Chuck: I think what it did Sid, first of all now and I do want to mention this about the book.  You mentioned the word keys; I’ve got in there the blood key, the revelation key, I really try to help you say here’s some keys that you can grab a hold to unlock your life.  Now, let’s address this question that you’re saying here.  When I say, “It broke the curse” it neutralized our past by saying that blacks would always be subservient or slavery would always rule the black people of this land by the President of the United States being a black man.  And I do know he has African decent by being a black man it said that no longer does any black person have to live subservient under the rule of the government of America because you’ve seen a man of that stature and of culture rise to the top to actually help direct us.  Now the problem comes in division; I think that through division comes the way God defines division.  There’s a wall between Jew and Gentile, see I think all racism is a result of anti-Semitism.

Sid: So the root, saying it another way, the root of all racism which is anti-Semitism when dealt with then can take care of such things as the black white issue or any other separation in America.

Chuck: Absolutely, see 9I think we get in culture wars when there’s a deeper war and I put this in this book.  There’s a blood war you have to understand that’s going on; and when you have anti –Semitism in your blood it is going to war against other cultures to try to dominate those cultures.  And what it’s going to do is also war against covenant and it’s going to war against covenant blessings.  And what’s your going to end up doing is having to be empowered supernaturally by the devil to try to rule in the earth realm.  That’s what a lot of people don’t understand Sid; that there is a supernatural empowerment by satan and the dark hosts that follows him that tries to give us rule in the earth.  Tries to give us rule over land; tries to give us rule to dominate people; and so I find it very very important that we understand that really even though one aspect of racism was dealt the blow.  Now were in a greater war and its anti-Semitism war.

Sid: And that’s the real root of racism.  And the statement that was made by our administration in what you prophesied would occur in May of 2011, “That Israel must go back to pre ’67 borders.”  That opened up all sorts of curses on America and on race relations.

Chuck: Listen it opened up, it opened up a whole portal of evil…

Sid: Woe, were out of time.