Sid: Well my guest Shane Warren, I think saying red hot for you Shane is understatement with everything going on in your life. But I want everyone to capture some of the new things that God is doing which I mean I have to tell you it is mind blowing. Let me take you to that pastors conference in Houston, Texas. I understand the glory of God was really on that meeting.

Shane: Oh it was, I mean, we just experienced an open heaven here and it’s just like the glory just exploded in the room as God began to do miracles all over the place.

Sid: But tell me about, I mean this is amazing how precise these words of knowledge were for one specific pastor. Tell me about him.

Shane: Well the afternoon that I had… that afternoon I had been in my hotel room and was preparing for the meeting. I just laid down to get some rest and just spending time in prayer. And all of a sudden I heard these words ringing in my ear “Tonight I’m going to release a horn.” And I knew immediately Sid that whenever this voice came and said “I’m going to release a horn” that it was speaking about a person whose name was Horn. So that night we went to the meeting and there were literally hundreds of pastors from all over the country there about 1000 people in attendance. Then as I got up to greet the audience again this word kept coming into my mind and my spirit saying “I’m going to release a horn.” And so I just said “I’m going to take a moment and I believe flow in the gifts of the Spirit here and let the Lord do what He wants to do.” And I told them that I was resting that afternoon and heard these words. So I called it out and said “Is there a preacher, a pastor here whose last name is Horn and you’re in the building? And setting several rows back in the middle section of the church this man stood up came to the front and I said “Your name is Horn?” And he said “Yes, it’s my last name.” And I began to just share the word of the Lord with him and I was just amazed of how specific this word was coming as I began to speak with him. I felt impressed to say to him “You know one of the most difficult moments of my life was when I lived in a placed called Clarksville, Tennessee.” It was a very difficult time for our family and I said “I don’t know why I’m supposed to share about this painful place called Clarksville with you.” And I was shocked when he responded back he said “It’s because I pastor in Clarksville, Arkansas.” And I said “I feel like the Lord is telling me that He’s going to encircle your church, he’s going to draw a circle around your church.” And honestly I didn’t know how to say what I was seeing but it was almost like I was seeing like 137, I know that’s strange to hear but it was like I was seeing the numbers 137. And I just said to him I said “You know the word circle means something to you and I hear these numbers 137 I think they are significant to you. Again I was shocked when he said “I live at 137 North Circle Street in Clarksville, Arkansas.” And immediately whenever he said that the glory of God, the power of God hit the room. People started running all over the building, people started weeping and some of them started falling to their knees. And then the presence of God broke out and God just started healing…

Sid: Now were you laying hands on people when this was going on?

Shane: I was not touching anybody at that time. I’m telling you it was just God was coming through that building in a wave of His presence and people were getting ministered to an healed and delivered all over the building all at the same time. It was like God was doing it all at the same time. And it just began radical, I immediately called for people I said “If you have an issue in your feet I feel like God’s healing your feet right now.” People started running to the altar before they would ever get to the altar, their feet were healed, they were running up on the platform. Then the presence of God was hitting them and they were falling out under the power of the Holy Spirit. And it was just an outbreak of God’s presence.

Sid: Now you told me that you said to him that you personally had a bad experience in Clarksville in a different state. Just turned out to be the same city he’s from in Tennessee and he was having a bad experience tell me about that.

Shane: Oh, he was going through… in his words in his description he was going through literal hell in his church. There was something really bad that was going on and I did not know that he was having some major issues with family issues; things of that nature were going on in his life. And if I had the time to enumerate what my experience was in Clarksville, Tennessee when I was a kid that was so painful it was exactly what he was describing to me. I found out later what he was going through and it was exactly what he was describing to me was the issues that I was encountering as a kid when I was in Clarksville. Just amazing to me that God would reach all the way back. Then I had the thought Sid could it be that God allowed me to go through that experience in Clarksville because he knew in the future that there would be a preacher that had to have a word from God to change his situation.

Sid: Now how changed was his situation after your word?

Shane: He went back to his church, he said “Immediately it was a different atmosphere, things broke, things began to change and God began to do miracles and a whole new direction started coming to their church.

Sid: Shane the thing that is so exciting to me is that you say some of the supernatural things that have been happening to you lately which we haven’t even gotten into. You think that was something, wait until you hear the other things going on in his life and at his church and wherever he speaks. That anyone can have this same access to God that you have. And that’s why I’m so excited… I mean it’s wonderful that you have these experiences. I want everyone listening to us to have these types of experiences. So I’m going to take you back and kind of rehearse a little of the history highlights in your life. At age 12 you had an amazing visitation from God tell me about that.

Shane: Well Sid I didn’t grow up in a church home I had very good parents, but I didn’t know who Jesus was. I never heard the name Jesus, if you had said the name Jesus in the home I would have thought it was another brand of coke literally. But when I was 12 years old I went into a place on my grandfather’s farm where I sat down, for lack of a better terminology a fort that he had built us. And in this fort I lifted up my eyes after I sat down and I had this encounter which Jesus where He appeared to me. And He said to me “I’ve called you to the nations.” I began to weep under the presence of God I really never done anything seriously wrong and I sought for words to describe really how I felt from that experience. The only thing that I can find in the Bible is Isaiah 6 where Isaiah said “I saw the Lord high and lifted up.” And he said “I felt undone.” And that’s exactly how I felt at 12 years old when the Lord put His hand on my head and said “I’m undone.” And His hand burned it burned on top of my head it was hot like fire on top of my head.

Sid: Now I have to question you on this. When you say it was like a little heat or when you said “Like fire” that’s sounds a lot more than warm.

Shane: Yes, it was like fire, it was like fire sitting on top of my head. And when I opened my eyes to look back up at Him because I was weeping, I closed my eyes and I opened my eyes to look back up at Him He was gone but I could still feel His hand on top of my head. That burning sensation was still on top of my head, it stayed there for quite some time.

Sid: I wonder if that’s what many people that operate in the supernatural report the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. Do you think that’s what it refers to?

Shane: I really do, I really do believe that there is that anointing that comes and for me it was like fire, it still is like fire from time to time. When I have these experiences like we just talked about with this pastor at the church with words of knowledge; I know that I have something from God coming because I will once again feel that on my head.

Sid: Now your father died, your mother is very sick, circumcises in your life cause you to sink to really you’re at the end of your rope. You see all of these miracles but you can’t do anything for your mother. So about 10:30 at night you get out of bed and you go to an empty room and you have your electric guitar and what do you do?

Shane: I just start worshiping God, I had been holding my mother in my arms and as she was dying I just had all of these questions like everybody does swirling through their mind. Like why when I see all of these miracles when I go out and minister but I can’t get my mom healed. So distraught and discouraged and literally at the end of my rope. I did the only thing that I’ve ever found peace at and that was I went to my music room and I took this guitar and sit down and started worshiping the Lord on this guitar. And whenever that happened this was the second time I had this unbelievable experience where I was caught up in the presence of God into a different realm than I’ve ever been in. And before and began to experience and see things in that realm concerning God and concerning the heavens and the working of angels. And God began to reveal truth to me about how to unlock the heavens for ourselves personally so that we can all get into that atmosphere.

Sid: Then the next day you asked a simple question “God, what happened to me last night?” I’ll have you answer that on tomorrow’s broadcast. But you have had a transformation in your life and everyone you teach this to has transformations in their life.

SID: One billion souls are going to have revelations that Jesus is the Messiah in the next 10 years, and my guest Dutch Sheets has seen this. Tell me what you saw in the visions.

DUTCH: You know, Sid, I never had an open vision. I was teaching, just talking to a group of people, and all of a sudden, I wasn’t seeing them. I was seeing a scene in front of me. It was in 1991 and I saw stadiums filled with young people, teenagers, college, passionately worshiping, praying, crying out to God. Then I saw them go to the parking lot to leave and they were transported back to their cities, and became balls of fire. Revival began to spring up all over the nation. Ten years later, the week of 9/11, I was preaching at a conference later in the week, and it was like preaching at a funeral. The nation, of course, was in trauma. People were just depressed and discouraged. I thought, what do I say to them. As I was speaking, I had another open vision. It was like the finger of God began to write on the back wall of that auditorium the word, “Acts, reference 3:19”. I saw it as a neon light, huge. And then it began to flash on and off, on and off. I knew that that verse talked about times of refreshing, coming from the presence of the Lord. That word “refreshing”, it’s a revival word. It means the blowing of breath or wind again intensely. God was saying to me, “I’m about to send the winds of revival again with intensity.” And then I closed, I didn’t know what else to do, so I closed my eyes and began to pray, and I saw it was like someone flipped on a television screen, and I began to watch a movie. And I saw this awakening that was coming. I began to see all over high school, all over America, high schools, college campuses, fires, revival. I saw groups of kids where healings would just start happening. They didn’t know what to do with it. Somebody would scream, “Yeshua, Jesus just healed me!” Someone else would jump up and say, “I’ve been delivered from sexual abuse! The pain of it is gone.” And someone else would say, “I don’t want these drugs anymore!” And it was just spontaneous. And they would worship. I saw meetings go for days without stopping. I saw administrators come and say, “We’ve got to get these kids back in class.” They would walk in the room, the power of God would overcome them. They couldn’t talk, they would fall to the floor and begin to weep. I saw this all over America. I saw it spread from high schools to college campuses, to universities, to the streets, every, it was not orchestrated. God would see to it that these things would go on for 24 hours at a time without stopping. It was amazing. Signs and wonders, deliverances, lives transformed, and the most amazing thing, they were falling in love with Jesus. It was not religious. It was love. It was violent love.

SID: Now is this just the United States or it’s the whole world?

DUTCH: It’s the whole world. I saw it beginning here because that’s where God uses me the most. But I knew immediately this is going to go around the world. That’s how we’re going to see these billion souls saved. All over the world, people are going to begin to have supernatural encounters with God.

SID: Are you seeing any signs of this happening now?

DUTCH: I am. I’m seeing pockets of it break out.

SID: Tell me one pocket.

DUTCH: I saw, in Tennessee recently, Chattanooga, Tennessee, a friend of mine contacted me. In fact, before the meeting started, he called me one day, actually texted me and said, “Pray for me right now. God is beginning to move in a truck stop I’m in.” He had prayed for a waitress, she fell to the floor under the power of God. Other people came, Sir, “Would you pray for me?” The owners of the truck stop, I don’t know, they must have had a hand in it, I guess they were believers, put worship music on. And he said, “I have people on the floor all over this truck stop receiving.” Then he started ministering in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and for nine weeks now, God has been moving signs, wonders, miracles. Over 800 have received the Lord, been baptized. Actually went and saw it myself. God is just pouring out His spirit. Children, young people, adults, marriages being transformed, drug dealers being transformed. Two drug dealers, one that had a gun to the head of the other one two weeks before this, were both in the same meeting being born again. I tell you, this is just God breaking out.

SID: Dutch, tell me—Listen, Dutch heard about you. Your season is changing. That’s what he heard about you—and would you pray a supernatural prayer right now for their season to change and for hope to be infused?

DUTCH: Oh I would love to. Father, we thank you so much for what you are doing and about to do. I thank you for your passionate love for people. I thank you that you are breaking hope deferred. The winter season is ending. A springtime is coming. You’re coming with power. You’re going to heal the sick. You’re going to transform lives. Emotions are going to heal. Depression is going to leave. You’re going to pour out your spirit all over this earth, and we live in the greatest season of time that history has ever seen. I thank you Father for what you are about to do. In the name of Yeshua we pray. Amen.

SID: What do you believe just happened to someone that believed that prayer?

DUTCH: I believe hope, the seeds of hope are coming alive right now. I believe that they’re going to be able to believe again. I believe that they felt something literally as we prayed, hope began to rise up. And they said, is this real, is this God? I believe that they are moving now into their new beginning. I believe hope is springing up for marriages. I believe hope is springing up for the future. I believe dreams are coming alive again. I believe that they are daring to believe, they’re choosing, they’re telling their heart to beat again even now as we speak.

SID: Your season is changing. I say to you that the presence of God just went right into you. That seed is in there. You let it grow. You make Jesus your Lord. You start reading your Bible. You start believing every promise in that Word is for you. You start believing that God called you for a season now. The next 10 years a billion souls are coming to the Lord and you are part of it. Your season has changed.

Sid: As you know I recently got back from Israel and I saw something, I’ve been going to Israel now since I’ve been a believer which is over 30 years. I have never seen what I saw in that land.  I saw an openness to the gospel.  I saw a hunger for God; I saw young people as open to the gospel as I ever seen in my life. Now I have found a strategy; if I will reach out to the Jew first it opens up a supernatural door to reach all people, but I have to have a method; how can I reach the Jew?  Ah, the Bible tells me; the Bible says “The Jew requires a sign” a miracle.  And so that’s why I’ve been pursuing to understand healing; understanding the supernatural of God because there’s a method; there’s a strategy involved.  If we can reach the Jew we can reach the world. And just think about it for a minute; God started with a Jew; the Bible says “Salvation is of the Jew.”  Where? In the land of Israel.  What was the job of the Jew?  The Jew was to be a light to the nations, the prophets tell us.  We’re to evangelize the world.   Well, we did a good job at the beginning but then we slowed down and turned the baton over to the Gentile believers.  But I believe that just before the Messiah returns and as the Orthodox Rabbis’ say “We are in the footsteps of the Messiah.”  That Jewish believers in the Messiah will be raised up red hot for the Lord from Israel that will take the gospel to the four corners of the earth.  That’s what we’re positioning ourselves for right at this moment.  I have on the telephone Pastor Bill Johnson; Sr. Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California.  And he has as part of the church the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry.  And he’s not just talking; he is doing the works of Jesus.  Let’s just get a little bit of a background Bill. You have such a godly heritage; tell me about it.

Bill:  Actually I’m a 5^th generation pastor on my dad’s side, and 4^th on my mom’s.

Sid: And your grandparents I envy them; sat under the ministry of Smith Wigglesworth and others.

Bill:  Yes, yes yeah.  Smith Wigglesworth; Aimee Semple McPherson; my uncle was actually a soloist for Aimee Semple McPherson, and my grandparents knew her and yeah…

Sid: So you heard these stories I imagine as a young kid.

Bill:  Oh yeah I got ruined by good stories, yeah. 

Sid: Yeah, but then when you went to these good spirit filled churches and you saw miracles every once in a great while did you get cynical?  Did you think “Well, maybe God doesn’t do it anymore; what was going on inside of the man Bill Johnson?”

Bill:  You know I didn’t have a clue what was going on. I couldn’t realize why it happened so long ago and it wasn’t happening today I couldn’t figure that out.  And I just kind of accepted it actually for quite a season until I was a young adult.  And then I started realizing that I had kind of the wool pulled over my eyes and realized there was something within reach that I could pursue if I was willing to go after it. So we did we started crying out to God for the real evidence of the gospel.

Sid: But you had something supernatural happen to you in your own home that kind of gave you a jump start maybe.

Bill:  Yeah, well it actually came several years after we actually started in this pursuit and even after we started seeing breakthrough.  But it was a major turning point for me; I had been… we had a powerful meeting a couple of nights and I was praying over an individual and just encouraged him that the Lord was going to visit him  and really touch him and it could happen any time of the day or night.  And I mentioned specifically it could happen at 3:00 in the morning.  Well, that night I went to bed quite late probably 1:00 perhaps as late as 1:30, but pretty late.  I was awakened suddenly out of an absolute dead sleep to absolute 100% awake in a millisecond, really difficult to explain.  I turned my head and I looked at the clock and it was 3:00 AM exactly and I realized I had been set up by the Lord as I was giving that word to someone else.

Sid: Huh.

Bill:  And it was like and it was hard to explain but it was actually like electrical current going through my body and I had absolute no control. And it was so obviously God; it was glorious but not pleasant if that makes sense.  It was pleasant in the sense of just knowing that God was doing a work; that it wasn’t physically pleasant.  I mean it’s electrocution my arms and legs were shooting out.  I felt like current was shooting out of them I had no control.  My wife was next to me in a waterbed completely asleep because I think the Lord had just put her out.  And He just began to deal with me and He began to remind me of my prayer for the last 10 months I’d been praying literally “God I want more of You and I want more at any cost.”  And I laid there for 20 or 30 minutes and tears just flowing down my cheeks onto the pillowcase.  And He took me to several scenes.  He showed me teaching in front of the church and I had no control over my limbs and what an embarrassment that would be.  And the next scene I saw myself walking in our town in front of our favorite restaurant and with the same condition realizing that I would be an embarrassment to my city; I would be an embarrassment to my church; I didn’t know of anyone who would believe me that this was God.  And it was really obvious what the Lord wanted to me; He was wanting to know if I really wanted more of Him at any cost.  I was reminded of Jacob when God touched him he limped for the rest of his life. I was reminded; I’m reminded of Mary the mother of Jesus; she bore the stigma of being the mother of the illegitimate child all the days of her life.  And those things just flashed before my mind as I laid there reviewing the prayer that I’d prayed “Do I want more of Him at any cost.”  And when that moment was over where He began to show me what it might look like; I may never recover; I may never regain control of my body.  That doesn’t sound even scriptural to anybody on the outside, but I knew what God was dealing with; He wanted my dignity.  He wanted me to surrender my right to having dignity.  I laid there and I said “I’ll take it if I get more of You you can have my dignity.  You can make me look any way that you want as long as I get a greater sense of Your presence in my life I’ll gladly take it.

Sid: You know in our culture I can understand why that would be a tough cost.  And say in the culture of Abraham he had to be willing to sacrifice his only son; the son of the promise.

Bill:  Yeah.

Sid: So cultures are different; in our culture for someone to start shaking is not really man pleasing, and we have a man pleasing culture.

Bill:  Your right; your right exactly.  We call it wisdom but it’s really control; we tend to shut down what God is doing because it’s an embarrassment to us and we can’t explain it.  And God explains Himself very well we don’t need to defend Him.

Sid: Bill, what should be normal? What in your opinion is normal?  Because you imply in your book, which we’re featuring this week “When Heaven Invades Earth,” that things as usual in the 21^st century American Church is not normal.  What is normal?

Bill:  It’s… the most normal thing for a Christian is to have a passion to see impossibilities of life bend the knee to the Name Jesus.  It’s abnormal for a Christian to not have an appetite for the impossible.

Sid: Give me an example. In your book you talk about a most unusual wedding; tell me about that.

Bill:  (Laughing) It was a couple of folks in our church; they met in our homeless ministry working with the poor and the broken of our city.  And they fell in love and they wanted to get married and they were in their 30’s and really didn’t need anything they already had their household settled.  And they thought “Well, let’s just invite the homeless and poor to the wedding.”  And then they said “We don’t need anything so let’s just register at Target and let’s just register for coats, hats, gloves and sleeping bags and then we’ll just give all the gifts away to the poor the honored guests of the meetings.

Sid: That’s not exactly the way it’s normally done in America but go ahead.

Bill:  No, it was the strangest wedding ever I’ll tell you.  Well, I met with them before hand and they said “Bill if you have any of those words of knowledge during this ceremony stop the wedding and we’ll pray for the sick.” So I realized man this is going to be a real different wedding. So they registered for coats, hats and gloves.  We sent the buses out; people found out there was a free meal so they came to the wedding quite frankly because it was a free meal.  And so they had prepared a nice tri-tipped dinner and we went through the wedding.  My brother actually his team led in worship first and prayed the sinners prayer with everybody in the room and then we had the wedding. But there was a man that had come there on the bus with a neck brace and braces on his wrist and a limp and a cane. And he was given 2 ½ to 3 years to live.  And I had…

Sid: In addition to all of this he was a street person.

Bill: Yes, yeah and this was at the beginning of the change of our perspective on reality where we began to value what God had said and what He had promised in His potential more than  what we were seeing.  So I actually had people with excitement in their voice and saying “Bill, there’s somebody here that only has 2 ½ years to live.”  And the thing that caught me off guard was the joy they had in telling me that; it wasn’t a morbid thing it was “My here’s another chance for God to do a great miracle.” So we went through the wedding and the bride and groom got behind the serving table and they began to dish the food out for all of the guests. And of course that was a remarkable sight by itself.  And my brother and I stood to the side and looked at the man with the arm brace and neck brace and all and invited him over and began to pray for him.  And he had carpal tunnel on his wrist and I asked him what was wrong and he told me.  And I said “How about if we pray for that” he said “That would be great.”

Sid: Bill, we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on this story on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid:  Now I have a guest that is going to just blow your paradigm for end times out of the water and you know what?  I believe that it has to be.   Why?  Because we here in the west have got a scenario for end times. It says in the Bible that in the last days the love of most will grow cold because of what they see coming.  And here’s what I believe that means I believe that since we have this perfect airtight left behind scenario that if things don’t work out exactly the way the book goes then many are going to lose their faith in the last days because the whole scenario for end times is not understood from an Eastern perspective.  I believe God raised up Walid Shoebat so that he can clarify simply from the Bible the evens of the last days.  Walid many of the conclusions you come up with are opposite of what most Christians believe, why is that?

Walid:  Well, most Christians in the west tend to read the book of Revelation when they study end times.  My question has always been, “Why do we start at the end of the Book what about Genesis?  Genesis has tremendous amount of prophecy; what about the prophets themselves?  What about the literal references in the Bible?  Does the allegory supersede the literal references.  So people somehow compose that idea based on allegory then ignore much of the literal references in the Bible.  Now if I can summarize, there is two issues that I always ask every western theologian in this country which they cannot answer if they adhere to a western lens.  Question number one, out of all the references in the Bible in which God destroys nation and the nations are mentioned by name, can you find any reference anywhere in the Bible regarding a nation that God destroys that is not Islamic?  Question number two “Out of all the references where the Messiah fights and the nations that He fights are mentioned by name, can anyone reference to me a single reference in the Bible where the Messiah fights a nation that is not Muslim today?  In Isaiah 10 He fights Lebanon.  In Habakkuk 3 He fights Median, Arabia.

Sid:  If this is the case how in the world did we come with this scenario of the European conglomeration of nations in the last days?

Walid:  Well, the trouble began in the ‘70s when Greece joined as the 10^th nation in the European Confederacy.  The Hal Lindsey and people like Tim LaHaye began to say “Well, you know we have full composite.”  Yet they ignored the aged wine that talked about end-times from the older theologians; people like you know Sir Robert Anderson, Martin Luther.  In fact so many even the older days Paul Varse, Bollinger, Fox the book of Martyrs, Napierre you know John Cotton, Thomas Parker, Increase Mather, so many of the older theologians have always taught that Islam is the composite of the beast system of the end-times.  So it’s not the westerners didn’t get it it’s that only recently from the ‘70s the mistake happened when the European Union began to form. Now we have how many nations?  We have over twenty some nations in the European Union.  This defies the ten toes, the ten horns in the Bible, so it doesn’t fit.

Sid:  Well, there’s a lot of things that don’t fit when you look through Eastern eyes as unfortunately most of the modern theologians don’t.  And as far as I’m concerned I think it an amazing thing your ancestry, your grandfather was associated with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Unfortunately this man was an ally of Hitler and a lot of people don’t know the Muslim connection with Hitler.

Walid:  Absolutely, if fact it’s crucial that people begin to understand that Islam wanted to destroy the Jews as well, not just Nazism; eight divisions of the Nazi war machine two of them were Islamic fundamentalist, the Bosnian Division, the Albanian Division.

Sid:  You know I never knew that.

Walid:  Yeah, it’s a fact I can show you photos of Muslim Nazis praying towards Mecca under Hitler.  The idea of killing the Jews came from what, came from Hajaman Husseini who suggested that we use the same thing as the Armenian.  The Armenian genocide very much mimicked the genocide of the Hebrews killing Jews in carts, in train cart, how much can you fill in a cart, all of that came from the genocide of the Armenians by the Turks.

Sid:  Well, you know what I find so fascinating here on one side your grandfather is a friend of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hitler’s ally, and then you also told me that on both sides of your family there’s Jewish ancestry and you went a bit further; most of the Palestinians you tell me have Jewish ancestry. Why do you say that?

Walid:  Well, because I researched the archives of my family heritage, the Shoebat clan comes from Harris Ben Cobb, a Jew who converted to Islam.  Before him he knew Harris Ben Cobb comes from a Ashomel Ben Adaya, no Muslim has the name Shomoel in fact if you look at Wikipedia Shomoel Ben Adaya was a Jew who created to Islam in Yemen.

Sid:  So but you tell me even the best science and DNA is supporting the fact that all the Palestinians outside of those born in Egypt were originally Jews; that’s pretty crazy.  Maybe 90% of them were originally Jews.

Walid:  Absolutely, yes in fact in all Palestinian homes you will find the Star of David in front of every home.  The Star of David you will find Palestinians who still observe many things Jewish.  Eating the lamb standing up comes from Exodus.  When I read Exodus as a Muslim I was shocked.

Sid:  Let’s go back a bit further, you came to the United States you were educated, you got involved in radical Islam, but you married a Catholic wife and you wanted her to convert to Islam. Unfortunately you started studying the Bible and comparing it to the Koran and it turned out the opposite.  You began to believe in the Bible; when you began to believe in the Bible this must have been very tough for you seeing the difference between the Bible and the Koran.  Just the family, the emotional ties, how could you make such a change?

Walid:  Well, I had two choices either I recognized the truth and suffer during my life or keep with the lie and end up eternally suffering, there is only two choices; God gives us two choices.  When I read Genesis and God said regarding the devil He said, “I will put enmity between you and the woman.” Satan hates the woman because the woman brought forth the Messiah, her seed, it’s amazing.  In Islam the woman is mistreated, why in every ism in the world the woman is mistreated, why? Because Lucifer hates the woman, so right from the beginning I began to see that I was in the wrong path that I have to be nice to my wife, that I have to be nice and kind to my Christian mother.  By the time I reached the New Testament in 1^st John 2:22 what did it say?  It says “Who is the liar, it is but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ.”  He is anti-Christ that denies the Father and the Son.

Sid:  And the major tenet of Islam is they say, “God has no son.”

Walid:  Absolutely, in the Koran it’s very clear.

Sid:  But you know what, looking at your list there are so many things I never knew in going over your teaching.  For instance when most Christians think Allah is synonymous with the God of the Bible, but there’s something you were talking about this sign of Islam, the cresset moon.  Tell me about that.

Walid:  Well, the Bible tells us that Lucifer embodies the anti-Christ.  The Hebrew rendering for the word Lucifer in the Bible in Isaiah 14 is Hellel Ben Sakhar, we have to look at the Hebrew always.  This actually means literally crescent moon, star crescent.  Isaiah 14 is speaking of Lucifer who takes the body of a man, is this the man that made the earth tremble, this is the anti-Christ and he is described as the crescent moon.

Sid:  Okay, so what you’re saying is Biblically from the Hebrew crescent moon Lucifer are synonymous but then that begs the question, “Allah,” is Allah synonymous with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Walid:  Absolutely not!  Allah has 99 names in the Koran and the names of Allah in the Koran, many of them basically mean the same thing of what God attributed to Lucifer.  Some of the names…

Sid:  In the Koran your saying?

Walid:  Absolutely.

Sid:    Give me one example.

Walid:  I’ll give you many examples Al Muqtadir is an Arabic word which means “The most proud one.”  When out of the Bible the most proud one is Lucifer.  Al Mumeet the one who causes death, Abdar, Arabic word, which means the afflicter the one that causes affliction.

Sid:  I’ll tell you what some of your teaching as mind blowing as what you’ve just heard Walid say; wait till you’ve hear his teaching on such things as the mark of the beast.  Totally different than what you’ve ever been taught.  Will the anti-Christ rule the whole world?  Totally different than what you’ve ever been taught.  Things such as the mystery Babylon, totally different than what you’ve ever been taught.  As a matter of fact you’re going to have the most sensible understanding of the end times that you’ve ever in your life.  It’s going to be so easy and that’s the way the Bible should be to understand the end times.  I’ve put together a package, a series of six DVD’s by Walid called “End Times Today.”  You will totally get it.

Sid:  My guest is red hot for the Messiah, his name is Dr. Larry Bates, he is an economist, publisher and editor of “Monetary and Economic Review.” He formerly was a bank CEO; also a member of Tennessee House of Representatives where he chaired the powerful committee on banking and commerce.  He’s an internationalized speaker on political systems, the Federal Reserve and how they affect the economy and particular your assets.  I’m catching up with him in Washington, DC.  On yesterday’s broadcasting and I love the way you can take these complex economic terms and make us more knowledgeable than PHD’s in Economics because of your inside information, and this is legal inside information, it’s the Bible. On yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about the causes of debt based economy and you were talking about accurately predicting two things that will happen to our economy and the time frame of it.  I wonder if you’d pick up there.

Larry:  Sure absolutely.  We have this debt based economy, we have forty trillion dollars of domestic debt; that is the Federal government debt, State, County, Municipal debt; corporate mortgage and consumer debt put in one big pile; that’s everybody’s debt.  Now to pay debt it has to be serviced.  Let’s go to everybody’s money, the MZM’s money supply is roughly 8 trillion dollars, that’s the money available to pay the debt.  So let’s do the math; subtract 8 trillion of money from 40 trillion of debt and we have a 32 trillion dollar problem.  Thirty-two trillion of this the debtors have been asked to do the impossible, pay back money that does not exist.  That is what the Bible tells us?  It tells us the borrower is servant to the lender, now I’ve read the scriptures from Genesis to maps, Sid I can find nowhere that it’s a sin to borrow money.  But I do find the instruction that if you do borrow it you are servant to the lender.  So people are in servitude to bankers.  This is why everybody gets 4 to 6 credit card offers a week.  Why because with this debt based economy if you and I and everybody listening doesn’t go and borrow the bankers money this economy is going nowhere.  So if we don’t borrow the money and spend it into circulation then what we will do is convince the government to borrow the money and spend it in circulation on social programs, economic stimulus programs, or to fight wars.  And so as a result when the government spends money they can only get the money by either tax the money, borrow the money or print the money, no other way to get it.  So a lot of people say, “Well, in particularly in this political season that we’re in the economy with people hurting is going to be an issue.”   And this is where it’s going to be very, very instructed to all of us to pick apart the positions of these presidential candidates when they say what they are going to do for the economy.

Sid:  Well, one of the things that crossed my mind is that we’ve been having this discussion is taking care of hospitalization and medical help for all of society. Someone has to pay that bill.   What kind of position is that going to put us in?

Larry:  Well it’s one of those things that has been tried before in countries before like Cuba, the former Soviet Union, East Germany where the government provided housing, they provided health care such as it was.  And it got so bad in the winning days of the Soviet system that the mantra of the people was they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work, so and it collapsed.

Sid:  Well, but there are some countries where it seems to be working, but what I find is people if they can leave those countries and come to the U.S. for serious surgery etc., they do that.

Larry:  No doubt about it because if you get a national health system it will have the efficiency of a government bureaucrat and the compassion of the IRS.

Sid:  That was a mouthful.

Larry:  Now think about this, if you’re sick and going to the hospital and you feel bad do you really want to wrestle with a government bureaucrat about whether is going to give you some health care or not?  I don’t think so. Here’s the other thing we need to look at; you know a lot of people say, “I’m going to depend upon the government to get us out of this big mess that we’re in.”  You know all these politicians are promising that they are going to fix the economy; I was doing a briefing in Singapore back in March of this year, and this particular briefing was for corporate CEO’s Bank CEO’s and government officials.  And I had this one government official that was pretty high ranking, I didn’t know who he was, but I did know that in that culture that it’s pretty risky to cause someone to save face.  But he challenged me so I gave him the straight facts back.  He said, “Dr. Bates there are many of us in government that are not quite pessimistic as you, we believe that we have tools that we can use to forestall any crisis and fix any problem that might come along.”  I said, “Well let me stop you right there sir, and invite you to look in your government tool box and tell me what tools you have to fix the problems you see coming.”   Silence, everybody was looking at the guy, and I said “Come on tell me.” “I, don’t know.”  Precisely because you have no tools, because if you throw money at the problem government has no money that it first didn’t take from somebody else; you cannot have your parliament pass a resolution declaring no toxic mortgage problem; you cannot have your parliament pass a resolution prosperity for everybody, you cannot pass your parliament pass a resolution declaring no financial institution problems.  You simply have to let the mortgage crisis take its course in the market and if you get your MAS, your Monetary Authority of Singapore to print the money up all your going to do is cause inflation, it will cause a bigger problem on the other side of the cycle.

Sid:  You have candidates running for President that feel that perhaps they should take from the rich to give to the needy.  Could you put a little light on this matter?

Larry:  Well, let’s go back and look in scripture; I’ve heard some of these guys that are what I call Liberation Theologists.  That’s where they use Christian symbols of theology, but a Marxist view of history; a communist view of history.  Now the only thing that they point out to, I even heard some say that “Well, Jesus Christ was either a socialist or a communist and the early church was a model of communism.”  But let’s look at that, how do we know that Jesus was not a communist?  Remember when the young man came to him and said, “Master, make my bother divide his inheritance with me.”  What did Jesus say?  He said, “Make me not a divider among men.”  So we know He wasn’t a communist.  Now what about the early church, after all they did sell all their goods and pulled it among themselves as they were traveling. Sure they did.  Here’s the difference, the early church was a model of voluntary community, communism is forced community or socialism is forced community.  Here’s the big difference, the early, church God was on the throne; under communism government is on the throne.  That’s the big difference.

Sid:  Larry, what should we be investing in this crisis that we are in?

Larry:  Well, first of all let’s look at what we shouldn’t be in. I’ll just say this we should not be in what we call loaner ship type assets where we have loaned money to people.  Whether it be an institution or a mutual fund, or whatever because there’s question about whether we’ll be paid back or not, what is the risk of this particular investment that we loaned the money to.  Also we’re going to be paid back with depreciated dollars if we get paid back.  So we need to start moving, and I put this out in this three DVD set the difference between ownership and loaner ship, and where you move from less liquid up to more liquid and start moving over into ownership type assets.  Now the real estate market is one that we need to be very careful about and we explained that.  The stock market is another thing, when you start entering a recession then you don’t have a lot of sales, you don’t have sales you don’t have earnings.  You don’t have earnings you don’t have stock value and mutual funds are simply stocks soup.  And so when you see all of this converging together remember this, cash at the crash will be king.  That’s cash in your money funds and bank CD’s and cast in your gold and silver coins.

Sid:  But I’ve actually heard scenarios of banks just locking their doors eventually you would get your money, but in a crisis they’ll just lock their doors.  Is that plausible?

Larry:  Well, in fact if you noticed the papers just remember this check your papers on Saturday morning because on Friday night is when they close banks.  If a bank’s going to fail it give them some time to find a receiver for it, try to sell the bank to another bank and absorb all of those depositors.  The FDSC has only 1.5 cents on the dollar on their insurance fund of all the deposit fund liabilities.  And when I challenge the FDIC with this they said, “Yes, that is true, but we have direct borrowing authority from the United States Treasury.”  Which is true but where does the United States Treasury get the money?  Either tax it, borrow it or print it.  You pay the cost of your own bail out; we just simply have to know how this system works and not become a victim of it.