Sid Roth welcomes John Fenn

Sid Roth: And boy you are going to be red hot for the Messiah when you hear my guest, he literally has received knowledge from God about World War III.  Before we get to that, John you had a series of visions in which the Lord came to you and told you things about the future, told you about the church, told you things about the way the First Church was and I’m fascinated by this.  I wonder if I take you back to what your first visitation in 1992.

John: Sure, sure that was one of those things that actually started my walk as a lot of people were on a long journey searching for the Lord’s will.  My wife and I had been praying that night and she had gone on to bed and I was sitting actually on the love seat in our living room, but suddenly my eyes were open into the Spirit realm and I saw Jesus about ten feet away.  And he said, “I have some things I want to share with you.”  And He came over Sid and actually sat down on the sofa and you know if you were to look in the natural with your eyes you would just see me sitting on my love seat that was kind of an L shaped you know the way that they were sitting.  But in the Spirit, I saw Jesus come over and sit down.  And he started with a kind of a history lesson of me; He told of where I came from with was the charismatic renewal of the ‘60s and ‘70s and He said, “What you would call the Charismatic Renewal.  Many people came out of the traditional churches because their needs were not being met.  And that’s of course you know what happened the Baptism of the Holy Spirit just exploded throughout all the denominations.  And they were saying and He continued as a result of the many prayer meetings and many home churches; many Para-church organizations were started as a result of all the people coming out of the traditional church because the wanted more of Him.  But He said, “Now that generation has grown up and started their own churches and then He looked at me and He said and you’re a product of those churches that came out of the Charismatic Renewal.  And He said, but now He said, “Many of these churches have become as rigid and inflexible and set in their own ways as the traditional denominational churches that preceded them.

Sid Roth: Is there ever going to be a generation of true believer’s that won’t fossilize after a move of God’s Spirit?  It seems historically that always happens.

John: It does seem like that, it seem like man always wants to get in the way.  I think part of the problem is we haven’t really put the New Testament within the proper context within the reality of Christ in us the hope of glory.  The individual responsibility, the individual privilege we have as new creatures in Christ.  But you know that visitation got me started because He was talking, He went on to say that once again you will see people leaving these churches because they want more of me, because they’re needs are not being met.  And He started talking to me about again, I would hear of home groups, house churches, and other things just the same of what I participated in coming out of the denominational church to the charismatic movement.  So it’s a little bit of history lesson to think about, the churches that I thought were the on fire, the cutting edge in His eyes, many had become as inflexible and rigid as the denominations that preceded them.

Sid: Interesting, I came to the Lord in the early 70s and I came in just as the Charismatic Movement was you know at its heights so to speak, so I didn’t have to, I came out of Orthodox Judaism.  I didn’t really leave the church system to me that was normal, the Charismatic Movement.

John: Well, and that’s where I came into it too and you know I’m one who believe that the Book of Acts is normal Christianity and that is what I was looking for and I wasn’t always finding it within the structure of the traditional church although even though I was in leadership in that structure.

Sid: Now why did the Lord give you this history lesson?

John: Well, I think because I was really searching for and actually a long search of where He was moving, how I could actually flow.  I had been like, and I think many listeners would have been there where I felt like I never really fit in in the structure and I never felt like I was fully free to move in the things God had put in my heart.  And so and I saw people that would fall through the cracks and I saw people who were frustrated, who had legitimate God given gifts but it was like they were always waiting for permission from the Pastor, permission from the board to operate in that gifting; in that God given gifting.  And I just thought that you know there is, something has to be wrong if God given gift has to be continually submitted to a board or something.  And all these people with all these giftings are just sitting there in almost a spectator situation every single service while the anointed few participate in the things of God.

Its Supernatural: So you realized what was going on, you knew what was going on inside of you, but it took a second visitation from the Lord to really put it together.

John: Yeah, in February of 2001 I had been seeking the Lord as far as where He was moving next and what He was doing, much along the same lines contemplating that early visitation.  In the middle of the worship service, I was about to minister up in Toronto, Canada area and the Lord was about six or seven steps away and just came walking over to me and started talking and one of the things He said was that, “People are running to and fro to this meeting and that, while they’re neglecting the supernatural work in their heart in the their midst.”  And He said this, “He said, “The next move where I’m moving is not a move of the masses, but of the individual.  And as it was in the beginning so it must be now, I’m moving in relationships.  And that just opened up a whole world because I really believe that Christianity started out in Israel as a relationship with God, when God came to man.  And I like to say that it moved to Greece and became a philosophy and to Rome where it became a religion and to Europe where it became a tradition and part of a culture; and it moved to the United States and it became an enterprise.

Sid: You know that that was so good I would love for you to repeat that please.

John: It is that, let’s just do that.  Christianity started out as a relationship in Israel when God came to man.  It moved to Greece to become a philosophy; to Rome where it became a religion; to Europe where it became a tradition and part of a culture; and it moved to the United States and it became an enterprise. And what I believe God is bringing back the relationship element of Christianity and that’s what we see going on around the world.  That’s what we see going on below the radar of the traditional church here in the United States

Sid: So let me see if I’m understanding you right.  We had a great move of God’s Spirit, Charismatic move and from that came churches, second generation churches, Bible Schools etc.  Then that like all the other moves of God’s Spirit began to fossilize.  Then there were a few moves of God’s Spirit that sprung up in Toronto and Brownsville and Pensacola and Smithton and so people would run to these meetings but the Lord is saying is, if I’m understanding you right, were running for the external signs and wonders when His Spirit really wants to do a number on us internally in relations with Him and relationships with one another.  Is that what you’re saying?

John: That’s exactly what I’m saying.  And so after this visitation in February of ’01 I began really searching the Word and looking to see how church was done in the New Testament and then also you know the Word and the Spirit agree and I realize it to be accurate and to make sure that I was not going to get off I not only needed to find it in the Word but also needed to find what God was doing by His Spirit all over the World.  And I knew that the Spirit and the Word would be in agreement.  And I started hearing of the explosion of Christianity in China in home based Churches and all over India and such.

Sid: I mean here in the United States we’re praying for revival to hit in some of the numbers you told me before we went on the air, it’s unbelievable.  How many are coming to the Lord per day worldwide?

John: Worldwide there are about 175,000 people coming to the Lord every single day.  I heard a House Church Leader in China say as best as they can estimate there are one million Chinese coming to the Lord every single month.

Sid: If that’s true why do we hear that Islam is the fastest growing religion?

John: Because that’s the world media, that’s the popular media.  If you check out such place, reputable places such as World Mission they are documenting and other mission organizations who have their fingers on the pulse of what’s happening out there on the field, out there around the world, they all say the same thing that Christianity is growing at almost eight percent per year.  It’s an amazing statistic.

Sid: You know I’ve got your book which makes one of the most fascinating reads, it’s a now book.  The title is “Return of the First Church,” why did you write this book?

John: Because I was searching for fulfillment and I found that as I travel in my positions that I had done in terms of advising churches and Bible Schools around the world, I saw that essentially all the churches were the same even though they advertised that things were different.  And I wanted more of God, I wanted a time when the four of five songs of worship were playing and Holy Spirit was really moving, I didn’t want to get it cut off just to take receive the offering or cut it off to receive the announcements.  I thought surely there must be a structural way that God has where if the congregation wants to flow with Lord, the Lord can have His way, we don’t have to throw out the schedule.  And so I looked all around and saw that basically all the churches were the same, I thought surely the Bible has something to say about that.  And so that’s really the result of my study and partly my own journey of just rediscovering the First Church and seeing it’s emergence once again all over the world.

Sid: Did it provoke you to jealousy when you saw what was originally available which because of religion has fossilized?

John: Well, you know I’ve been in that traditional church all my life, since a teenager and it was one of those moments where you just think I’ve missed it; I’ve missed it as good as the Lord has been.  I know that the Lord fills whatever structure man gives Him; the Lord will use whatever man gives Him to the maximum extent.  I felt like, oh, where have I been?  Where have I been, why have I missed this?  Because now I tell you the fulfillment that I feel and what I see in others as they’re able to flow, as they’re empowered.