Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Dr. Michael Brown. Michael, can you be Christian and gay?
Michael: Ah, big question. If you mean by that, can someone love Jesus, be a disciple and say, I’m attracted to the same sex. I haven’t changed, but I’m not acting on it. I don’t fantasize about it. I know it’s wrong and I’m asking God to change me, of course, you can follow Jesus and struggle with these issues. But if someone says, I am affirming my homosexuality. God accepts my homosexuality. God created me to be gay and I will pursue gay relationships, no, you cannot possibly be a practicing homosexual and a follower of Jesus at the same time. And I want to say, look, some of you really struggled here. I want to assure you that there is a place of God in wholeness and help for each of you.
Sid: Speaking about a place of wholeness and help, I knew your brother-in-law. Tell me that story.
Michael: My late brother-in-law, David, he was a homosexual man. If you met him you might have even seen maybe, you know, seemed slight effeminate or something. When he came to Jesus, he gave his whole life to the Lord, including his sexuality. He gave his sexuality to Jesus and he became heterosexual. How do I know? Because he got attracted to my sister-in-law, Robin, whom you knew, and they were happily married until he passed away a few years ago. And Robin said, “You need to come out with this story. He’s with the Lord, but I feel it’s important people know.” And I said, “So you had a normal heterosexual relationship.” ‘Cause I hung out with him and he was like everybody else. He was one of the guys, you know.
Michael: And she said everything was totally normal. Jesus really can transform people to the core of our being, Sid.
Sid: Mike, I have known people that are gay and they have been set free from the power of God, literally, after a prayer that the spirit causing that leaves them. Their walk, their talk, it even changes. But what about someone that says, “I was born this way. I love Jesus, but I was born this way. What can I do?”
Michael: Okay, first thing, it’s a myth. No one is born gay. I like the way Camille Paglia, a lesbian journalist, put it. No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous. The reason you’re here is they discovered a gay gene or a gay part of the brain, or this or that, is because they haven’t found it yet. They’re still looking. Now this much we know is that from people’s earliest memories and recollections, this is who they’ve been. In other words, things are formed very early in life. But we are in a broken, fallen world. Everyone has issues and Jesus died for all of our issues. But as long as someone says, “I was born this way”, therefore, I was made this way, then they’re under deception. But of course, you watch sitcoms, you watch TV shows, you watch a movie, whatever it is, it’s assumed, we know people are born gay. We know no such thing. The science absolutely says the opposite.
Sid: Paint me a picture, if Christians fall over and play dead, as they have been so far, what’s going to happen to America?
Michael: Well we could never have a show like this. This would be illegal. Not only would same-sex marriage be legal across the country, it would be mandatory. Everyone would have to accept it. But not only that, adult incest would also be okay, polyamorous relationships would also be okay. We’d have no moral guard against that. In the schools, you can’t talk about boys and girls, moms and dad because that would be discriminatory and offensive. Birth certificates, like they say in Spain now, Sid, they wouldn’t say moms and dad. They would say “Progenitor A and Progenitor B.” Let’s take this a little bit further. Christian schools would be required to teach that homosexual practice is fine. If two seventh grade girls were in a lesbian relationship, you would not be allowed to put them out of school. Let’s take this further. Home schoolers would be required to teach that homosexual practice is fine. Preachers preaching from the pulpit that Jesus can change homosexual mean and women would be called discriminatory, hateful. You own a Christian bookstore, one of your workers decides he wants to come in wearing a dress, you say that won’t work in my store, you’re fired, you’ll go to jail for discrimination. The list goes on and on. In fact, queer theology would be considered normal. The idea that anyone would believe that the Bible teaches against homosexual practice or that moms and dads in the family are the best that would be considered not just antiquated, but bigoted, intolerant, small-minded.
Sid: Okay. But there are such things as gay churches, such things as gay bibles. How does this fit into the equation?
Michael: Deception is ramped. We have played games with the Word for so long and tried to twist and turn to make it mean what we please. We’ve gotten away from preaching the truth at any cost. Look, there are Methodist churches, Presbyterian churches, Lutheran churches, Baptist churches that are pro-homosexual, not in terms of loving the people, which we all do, but in terms of supporting homosexual theology, supporting homosexual ideology. I got a list of 235 gay-affirming churches in Ohio and they had all the denominations listed, you know, what would be called mainstream denominations. We need to wake up and see the handwriting on the wall. This is not one of these things that we’ll just sit back about. Look, queer theology is some of the most blasphemous stuff imaginable. There are seminaries teaching it. I have books on the subject of queer God and queering Christ. These are theologians that are widely respected leaders and they’re saying we need to reconfigure our views of God, reconfigure our views of Jesus. This is not just a matter of you have your way, I have mine. I’ll say it again. The folks that in sincerity feel that they’ve been fighting for their rights, they’ve come out of the closet. They want to put you and me in the closet. Sid, I am not ready to go in the closet.
Sid: But it looks as if it’s an avalanche on one side. It looks as though there’s no chance of reversing what’s going on. What would you say to that?
Michael: In the natural that’s a hundred percent right. Let’s start there. It’s too late. Society has gone too far. People have been too brainwashed by the media. Kids have been too reeducated from elementary school on. It has gone too far. It’s impossible. We need a miracle. But that’s my hope. The God that brings the Son of God into the world through aversion and brings the form of the Messiah into the world through an old woman, that’s the God of the impossible. And I believe as God commissioned me and others, turn back the tide of homosexual activism, we are actually going to see something happen.
Sid: Have you had any debates with homosexuals over these areas? And tell me about one.
Michael: I debated Harry Knox with the Human Rights Campaign, the world’s largest gay activist organization. He has now been appointed by President Obama to the Faith Advisory Counsel. And Harry got up and made appeal.
Sid: What is going on with our administration? What is happening? I don’t get it.
Michael: It’s going the way of equality, tolerance, love. Except unless you hold to biblical foundations of right and wrong and biblical foundations of family, this is the natural way for the world to go, Sid.
Sid: Okay. Go back to the debate.
Michael: At the debate, of course, I’m gentle, gracious, loving, reaching out to him with compassion, making sure that the gay and lesbian audience understands my genuine love for them, Jesus dies for heterosexual, same as homosexual, do you know, I get blasted being a Nazi. I’m Jewish. I’ve been blasted as Adolf Hitler, as Taliban, as a Jihadist, as a psychopath because I lovingly tell people God has a better way. The ones that say they are so tolerant I found to be extraordinarily intolerant. And amazingly, when the gay press wrote about what happened at the debate, the Human Rights Campaign put out a report with the exact opposite of the actual events because the truth is a little scary.
Sid: Mike, look in the camera and speak to a gay person and tell them what you really feel about them.
Michael: Listen friend, I’ve sat with your friends and your colleagues, and I’ve read your stories. And it breaks my heart. I’ve gotten on my knees and wept because of the pain you’ve experienced, because of the rejection you’ve lived with. Because some of you are raised religious, you think God hates you and you’re damned to hell. I want you to know the depth of God’s love for you. I want you to know the love of a father beyond anything you can imagine, and Jesus reaching out to you, not to affirm you where you are, but to say, I have a better way. If you’ll give yourself to him unconditionally, friend, he’ll change you to the core of your being. He loves you more than you can ever imagine. And my heart breaks to see you whole as well.
Sid: Well you know Mike, I think you hit the key word. The key word is love. Whether someone’s straight or someone’s gay, they’re looking for love. And you have never experienced love until you’ve experienced the love of God. And the only way you can experience His love is to believe that Jesus died for your sins, that your sins, if you’ll tell him you’re sorry. You say, well I don’t feel it. It’s not based on a feeling. It’s based on love of God. Faith believes that if God says you’re not to be a practicing homosexual then you can abstain. I know you can do that. And when you repent and turn to God there is such an awesome power to set you free. But the love that you’re going to experience, it is so phenomenal. I experienced that love. It was the most wonderful thing that could happen to a human. I want you to experience that. Make Jesus your Lord. Ask him to live inside of you. Tell him that you’re sorry for the things you’ve done and believe his blood is strong enough to wash away and give you a new start. Start new today.