Sid: Now I had a dream a number of months ago but it was so profound that I still think about it. And Jesus told me three times “I’m coming back soon, I’m coming back soon, I’m coming back soon.” And then I looked up the word soon in the Merriam Webster Dictionary and I was amazed at what it said the definition of soon is “In a short time after something happens.” Now my guest is John Shorey what do you think about that definition of soon John Shorey?

John: Well, I think things are happening so therefore the Lord’s coming back is sooner than later.

Sid: Well, I want people to get to know you a little bit that at age 22 you became a believer and shortly thereafter you took after becoming a believer mind you you took a literal leap of faith tell me about that.

John: Well, as a young believer I was actually before I was saved I was working in remote area of Alaska in logging camps. And I became a Christian in the logging camps and I started ordering cassette tapes because I didn’t have a way to get to church it was 40 miles from town by boat and I was reading the Bible and I just felt my faith was growing. And I ended up having a light accident I jumped off a log in about 6 or 8 feet down into a hole and I didn’t see what was there and I twisted my ankle really bad and it was just not getting any better and it went on a couple of weeks. And I told my Christian friend that was instrumental in leading me to the Lord I said “I know that God heals so I’m going to believe that God’s going to heal my ankle.” And he kind of threw some water on my faith in saying “It’s not always God’s will to heal.” So I was really just kind of my faith was almost wounded how do I believe God to heal me if it’s not always His will how do know when it’s the will of God?” So I was struggling with that for a couple of weeks and my twisted ankle went on for 4 weeks, I was limping all over my job and finally I told my boss “Would you call an airplane and bring me to town so I could see a doctor because my ankle is just not getting better. So the next day on a Thursday I was going to fly into town on a Friday so on Thursday I told the woods boss that tomorrow I’m going to go to town and have a doctor look at this ankle. And when I told him that he said “The way you’ve twisted those it probably torn those ligaments you’re going to be stuck with a bad ankle for the rest of your life.” And when he said that I was really kind of stupid in a way to say this but I said “Well, you know God could heal my ankle.” And when I said that he just kind of laughed and he said “No, God can’t heal your ankle you’re stuck with it.” And when he said “God couldn’t heal it turned around and I said to myself, I actually said this to God I said “God he just said You can’t heal my ankle and because He said that You can’t I believe now that it Your will to heal my ankle.” And I had to go about 15 feet to over where the logs were at to help you know to do my job and I just said “Lord, I’m going to jump out about 6’ and I’m going to land on my bad ankle on that log and I literally…

Sid: Wait a second John do you realize what would happen if you weren’t healed, you might lose your foot!

John: I did I…

Sid: How could you do that?

John: You know like I say I was studying the word, I was reading about faith and I was just looking for a way to know that it had to be God’s will so I was convinced that it had to be God’s will, I was willing to take a leap of faith.

Sid: So you took a literal leap of faith, was any one there when you did it?

John: The boss that I had just walked away from.

Sid: The one that said that nothing could ever heal that ankle, no doctor?

John: This literally happened right in front of him.

Sid: So alright you take the leap of faith and then what?

John: And I put my bad foot out to catch my fall and God literally healed that foot before I touched the ground.

Sid: Did you know that God was doing something in that split second or did you only know when you touched the ground?

John: When I touched the ground I knew I was healed because the limping was gone.

Sid: So what’s your boss say?

John: He was dumbfounded!

Sid: I’m dumbfounded that you had such chutzpa, such nerve, such courage to do that but speaking of courage why did you read the book of Revelation in particular and just the Bible for a whole year, didn’t watch TV, didn’t read anything just the Bible. Why did you do that?

John: Well you know years after…actually a number of years after becoming a Christian I went off to Bible college and met my wife and we went into Children’s Ministry. We were Children’s Evangelists and we were Children’s Pastors and you know about 7 or 8 years ago I was a Part-time Children’s Pastor in this church at Peola, Washington and we had a visiting Evangelist and I was able to get in on the last few minutes of his preaching on a Sunday night. And he called people up for prayer and he called people up to help pray and I went up as one of the helpers. He didn’t even know that I was on part-time staff because we was off in another corner of the church working with the kids. And when he comes forward to pray the first he does he points me out of the back of the crowd and he says “I have a word from God for you.” And he says “God wants me to tell you that you’re going to see financial blessing.” And he said “You’re going to see best years, the greatest years of your ministry are ahead of you.” And then he said some other things about my personal life, and it’s like this guy is hearing from God and the next 3 years our family income doubled, the best income that we had seen in over 30 years of marriage. And after 2 years of that I went to the Lord in prayer and I said “Lord, I’m seeing financial blessing, I know this message was from You but I have seen our ministry winding down what am I supposed to do that will lead me to the greatest years of my ministry.” And after fasting and prayer I heard this inner voice saying “I was to do a study on the end times and write out this study self publish it and put it in the hands of Christians and Pastors and Christian Leaders.” And I went about to do it.

Sid: Now there’s so much I want to ask you but “How in the world did you get that revelation on the Book of Revelations which is the key to understanding the Book of Revelations?

John: Well, I ended up writing 2 books and I kind of all most laugh at the thought that I would ever write one book. And when I wrote my first book a friend of my son actually gave the book to her grandmother and she said “After reading this book the Holy Spirit told me this book of His Him and that I was going to write a second book.” And when my son came back and said “My friend told me that her Grandmother said the Holy Spirit told her that 3you’re going to write a second book.” And I was king of like Abraham and Sarah and I kind of laughed you know no way I’m going to write another book. Well, when I wrote the first book there was a part in my study that I was stumped and that was in reading Revelation it’s like I could see that sections of the book of Revelation were not in chronologic order. And if you read in Revelations chapter 14 you read about the 144,000 that had been sealed to do a special work for God. And in Revelation’s 14 Jesus is meeting with them on the Mount Zion and Jesus doesn’t come back in chapter 14 He comes back after the battle of Armageddon when He comes down on the Mount of Olives. So I was really stumped and I went to the Lord in prayer and I said “Lord You’re going to have to explain this to me what is going on that Jesus is meeting with the 144,000 before He comes to the earth to Mount of Olives? And I said “Lord, I’m going to read the book of Revelation over and over and over until You show me what’s going on.” And I had time on my hands and I started reading cover to cover the book of Revelation and in the 3^rd read God just opened my eyes and let me see what was happening. And…

Sid: And just briefly tell me what this revelation was because I am frankly I have never heard this before, it makes as much sense as anything I’ve ever heard about in end times I mean this is a major revelation. But briefly tell us.

John: Yes, well in Revelations chapter 10 and angel shows up, it’s like you see John was translated to the throne of God and Jesus gave him the book of Revelation. And it’s like when John came back down to the Island of Patmos probably a cave that he was in prisoned in he started writing the book of Revelation. And when he got to chapter 10 this angel is right there you read it in chapter 10 this angel shows up and says “John read this little scroll, you must prophesy again about peoples, languages and nations.” And when I saw this I realized that John was interrupted he was in the middle of writing about the wrath of God and this angel gave him 4 additional chapters that was like an interruption. Almost like an angelic footnote to what Jesus had gave to John, well I put a little bit of a note about this in my book. But then after I wrote my first book on studying the book of Revelation all of a sudden I’m reading Revelation17:1 and there it is again an angel appears to John a second time gives him another interruption of 2 ½ chapters. And that’s when I realized that these 2 angels gave John an additional 6 and ½ chapters of Revelation and he didn’t put it in chronological order he put it in the book of Revelation at the point that he was at as he was writing the book of Revelation.

Sid: Well, let me ask you this question when you put the book of Revelation in chronological order and let me make something clear the book of Revelation says you can’t add or subtract one word there’s a warning actually there so but you haven’t done that you’ve just rearranged it in chronological order. Now when we rearranged it in chronological order and you read it that way what impact did it have one you what change in your thinking? Did it make more sense?

John: Oh, absolutely! In fact it’s like there are so many points of confusion when you read the book of Revelation from cover to cover…

Sid: And by the way every real Christian reads that from cover to cover because there’s a blessing there. It says “If you would read this book you will be blessed.” And to be candid with you when I read it because it doesn’t make logical sense I do it because I know that I’m going to blessed because God promises that but I want to understand it better.

John: Yes, well you see I took these 6 and ½ chapters and I divided it up by topic and you know what I mean where it just made sense this is a completely thought. And it was 10 complete thoughts that came out of those 6 ½ chapters. And I basically went through the book of Revelation looking for the same subject, key words topics and was literally able to see where each of these 10 portions from the 6 ½ chapters could be introduced as angelic footnotes to what Jesus gave to John. And when you read it from cover to cover you know what’s really interesting is in the first paragraph of the book of revelation it literally says that this Revelation of Jesus Christ was also delivered by angels. It’s right there in the first paragraph of the book of Revelation.

Sid: Here’s what we have done and I’m so excited about this we have put together a special Bible bookmark I want you to keep it right in your Bible and it gives the chronological order of the book of Revelation. I want you to read it for yourself, I want you to think for yourself. And then in addition to that we have the 2 books that God told John to write, the first one is called “The Window of the Lord’s Return” which is an in-depth study of the mid-trip viewpoint, the mid-tribulation viewpoint. It covers the timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation. But John you were always a pre-triber what happened?

John: Well, you know when God called me to do this study and to write the book it’s like I had no agenda. I mean I came to the Lord in a denomination where pre-trib was the only viewpoint that was taught and you know it was really what I wanted to believe in but at the same time through my study…see I was a student of the book of Revelation I would read the Bible through every year and I would read the book of Revelation twice every year. And in just in my interest in the end-times I always made it a point to put extra time of study into the book of Revelation. And even though I believed that the rapture was pretrib there was a few key verses that didn’t add up.

Sid: I’ll tell you what when we come back we’ll pick up right there. As a matter of fact what I want to do when we come back if it is okay with you I want you to point out the seven things that have to happen before the rapture which caused you to change your viewpoint. But I want to make available his 2 books one is called “The Window of the Lord’s Return” in which he goes in detail as to why he believes in the mid-trib. rapture but even more than that why he believes the Lord’s return will before the year 2020 yes you heard me right. And he also talks about how America fits into end-time plans “The Coming Anti-Christ.” So we’re going to make that available, we’re going to make the special Bible bookmark available of which will allow you to understand the book of Revelation. His 2 books are “The Window of the Lord’s Return” and “Unlocking the Mystery the Book of Revelation.” And this special Bible bookmark with the chronological order of the book of Revelation. I’m going to tell you something if the Lord is returning before the year 2020 that means that there’s going to be a lot of stuff going on on planet earth and I don’t want you to be the tail I want you to be the head. I don’t want you to be caught unaware.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Craig Hill Founder of Family Foundations International and he’s really a teacher’s teacher. And he’s dealing with a subject that if you do not deal with you will not be free enough to receive the glory that is about ready to be poured out on planet earth. See God has saved the best for last. We’re making available 2 tools that Craig has put together. One is called “Bondage Broken, Freedom from Compulsive Habits.” And some of you say “Well, I’m not a drug addict, I’m not an alcoholic, but what is your idolatry? What are you medicating the deep problems with? Are you medicating it with good feelings you have for food, or for watching television? Or from sexual thoughts or from anger, or from gossip or from over talking although you know you shouldn’t be talking so much? Or from lying or from criticizing? See God want you free He doesn’t want you just to medicate anyone, He want you free and the second thing that goes right along with getting free from bondages is identifying shame. And we are making available including the book 3 audio cassettes on the subject of shame. I have Craig Hill on the telephone and Craig let’s start for basics, what is shame?

Craig: You know what we find Sid is that when you mention that word shame most people won’t identify with it they think “Well, I’m not ashamed, I don’t have that problem.” But when we really look at it it’s really rampant in our society. Most people I found mix shame and guilt as concepts but they’re really 2 entirely separate concepts. Guilt is a feeling that really has to do with wrongness of action. It’s a feeling of “I made a mistake; shame on the other hand is wrongness of being.” Shame is the feeling “I am a mistake.”

Sid: Big distinction.

Craig: Well there sure is because I made a mistake I can fix, if I made a mistake and I did wrong well I can repent, I can be forgiven and I don’t have to do wrong in the future. But if the problem is “I am a mistake you can’t repent of yourself, you can’t cast yourself out, you can’t get rid of yourself, you have to live with you for the rest of your life. So if the wrongness that I’m experiencing is me and I can’t get rid of me there is just this overwhelming sense of doom that I just have to live with this for the rest of my life. The problem is just me, I am the problem and what I found is this force of shame it’s really an active force like cancer in a sense it’s an active force it’s never satisfied to just be in one part of the body it wants to consume the whole body. And shame is like that it’s an active force of death that really emanates from Satan and it get imparted often times unwittingly through families. And as we’ve be talking about bondages, addictions, behavior that people don’t like in the earlier days this weeks the root of a whole lot of that is shame. It’s a deep seated feeling on the inside “I’m worthless, I have no value, I’ll never amount to anything.”

Sid: Could this be unknown?

Craig: It’s almost always unknown I think, most people don’t realize that that’s what’s driving them that that’s really some of the fuel. And shame really is like it’s like a HIV virus it’s like an AIDS virus what it does is it enters and it begins to wear down and break down the spiritual and emotional immune system so to speak. And so when people experience a small attack that for an example in the physical realm a person with AIDS doesn’t die of AIDS they die of a cold or a flu or any kind of thing. A person that has shame working on the inside just like a spiritual and emotional HIV virus a small attack becomes overwhelming to them. Something that a healthy emotional immune system would easily throw off is overwhelming to a person when shame is working on the inside. It just stimulates and stirs up a deep seated fear that I have no value. And like we’ve been talking in the last several days when that happens my flesh engages with all kinds of things to try to bring value to myself. Pride is a real simple reaction to that, if “I feel worthless well then I need to do something real important, I need to do something to make myself valuable.”

Sid: Recognized by man as opposed to recognized by God.

Craig: Exactly and that can be it…

Sid: Man pleasing.

Craig: Right that can be a tremendous motive to ministry if I can just do some great thing for God then people will recognize it then they will make me feel valuable rather than being free on the inside being motivated by the Holy Spirit.

Sid: So what we do again we medicate ourselves rather than being whole.

Craig: Exactly, we do something or another to try to make ourselves okay, to try to make ourselves feel valuable. But deep on the inside that intense shame is still working.

Sid: How did you discover this in your own life?

Craig: You know I first began to see it with my children. When I began to see it in my family was that in an attempt as a father to discipline my children I was actually shaming them rather than disciplining them. What I was actually doing rather than conveying what I’ve come to call the anti-gospel instead of the gospel 5to them. What I mean by that they gospel is this “When you do right I love you and you’re valuable; when you do wrong I love you and you’re valuable.” The anti-gospel is when you do right I love you and you’re valuable, but when you do wrong I will grind you to powder, I will make you feel worthless; I will shame you and use that shame as a manipulative weapon to try to get you to obey me and do what I want you to do.”

Sid: And you know we’re victims because we just act out what our parents did to us and somewhere somehow this has got to stop.

Craig: Sure, unfortunately shame is absolutely transgenerational as you just alluded to. And which means whatever degree of shame I’m still allowing in my life that I don’t even realize I’m carrying I will impart to my children and it will pass right on down to the next generation. I’ll impart to them things that my parents imparted to me.” Which again ends up in being fuel for a fire and when that fire burns then my flesh does all kinds of things to try to comfort it. When you asked “How did I first recognize it?” I remember having an experience with my children was young my youngest Jonathan was 4 years old I was pasturing a church at the time. And you know as a pastor there is even more pressure that you want your children to be perfect and you don’t want them to do anything that they shouldn’t do. Jonathan had just started going to a preschool at that time. And apparently he learned some words at that preschool that we had not taught him and he decided to try one of these words out on his Sunday School teacher.

Sid: (Laughing)

Craig: (Laughing) And she’d asked him to do something he didn’t want to do and so he called her a name that was pretty rude and obscene; and after the service had ended and I came out into the foyer the Sunday School Teacher was there and began to share this information with me. She said “Pastor I just thought that you ought to know as a father that we had this little problem in class today and Jonathan said this and called me this name.” And as she shared with me what the name was I felt my face turning about 3 shades of red, and I thought “Oh my goodness she probably thinks that we talk that way at home, she probably thinks that he learned that from me and I was filled with embarrassment. I think you know the scripture that comes through you mind at that moment “The man who cannot rule his own house how can he rule the church of God.” And I thought “Oh my goodness my ministries over I might as well just resign now.” And so I thanked her and I was on my way across the foyer Jonathan the 4 year old was standing there and I was going to let him know what I thought about that. (Laughing) I was going to spank him and yell at him and basically what was in my heart was “How dare you, how could you embarrass me this way, how could you do this and I was going to let him know in no uncertain terms he better never do that again.” And as I was on my way across the foyer the Holy Spirit stopped me and goes “What are you doing?” And I said “I’m disciplining my son as I’m called to as a father.” He said “No you’re not.” He said “You’re about to shame your son, and as a matter of fact you’re about to be the devils agent and not My agent; you’re about to impart to him exactly the opposite of My message.” And the Lord said “As a matter of fact being his father you are the appointed and anointed vessel to bring correction and discipline to him but at the moment unfortunately you’re disqualified.” I said “Lord, what do you mean disqualified?” He said “Lord what do you mean disqualified?” He said “Well son, you have such a large beam in your own eye you can’t see clearly to remove the speck from your son’s eye you need to deal with the shame in your on heart first.” I said “What are you talking about Lord?” And He said “At the moment you primary concern is not for the welfare of your son, your primary concern is for your own reputation, your own welfare and you want to demonstrate the Sunday School Teacher that you’re going to discipline your son not for his benefit but for your benefit.” And the Lord said “The truth of the matter is you’ve got a bunch of shame in your on heart, you feel like a worthless Pastor, you’ve feel like the worthless father, you feel like you have no value because the truth of the matter is you haven’t come to Me and asked Me who you are in My sight; you’re letting the behavior of a 4 year old determine your value as a human being.” And I thought… the Lord said “That’s a pretty heavy burden to put on a 4 year old; that would be a pretty heavy burden to put on an adult, but to put that on a 4 year old that you’re emotional well-being floats up and down with his behavior; and you’re going to treat him according to your own shame, you’re going to take your shame, dump it on him and now are you going to make him feel worthless because he did something wrong.” And the Lord said “The truth of the matter is I love him just as much as I did before he did that and I want you to convey to him the gospel which is yes he needs discipline, yes he needs correction but his value hasn’t changed because he did wrong, your value hasn’t changed because he did wrong.” And the Lord said “Once again your own shame determine how you treat your son and your going to take your shame dump it all over him and now you’re going to deeply wound him make him feel worthless and then his soul is going to be out of peace and his flesh is going to have to engage to do some kind of …

Sid: You know I’m out of peace right now because we’re out of time but I want to find out what happened come on back on tomorrow’s broadcast Mishpochah.

Sid: A a few years ago I interviewed a young Messianic Jewish Rabbi by the name of Jonathan Cahn before his book even came out. We just offered it on CD’s “The Mystery of the Harbinger.” Jonathan who would have known what history would reveal since that point and what has happened. And the Harbinger means a warning, and there were 9 harbingers or warnings from scripture. What has happened since that book came out I know you’re sold almost 2 million of these copies of the book?

Jonathan: Yeah, well Sid it began with you; it began with that the first time and it went forth through America. I had a sense that it would because only since it was not of me and it is…

Sid: Now a lot of people say that it’s not of me. I happen to know that you’re a world class teacher, I know this, but when you’re saying “It’s not of you” clarify what you mean.

Jonathan: Well the Harbinger you know it came to me I didn’t come up with it I wasn’t looking for something it literally was revealed step by step. You know before there’s judgment God sends warning. Therefore, people who are vessels don’t take credit for any of it you know so it really just came forth literally. I mean literally, the book literally wrote itself and since it came out things in the Harbinger have been coming true. The harbingers have been continuing…

Sid: It’s been a prophetic book, I mean the whole harbinger series is from the Bible and your point is it’s going to come to pass. And not only is it coming to pass but there are more harbingers from the Bible coming to pass in America, more warnings.

Jonathan: It’s continuing, continuing to manifest, I mean these warning signs to the point where I didn’t believe it when I heard stuff and I wrote the book, that’s what I mean it’s the Lord’s thing. He is merciful that’s why He warns, America is rapidly heading away from God. And so the God of the Bible sends warning, that’s what the harbinger is they’re manifest, they have manifested they have continuing and this is openly God’s mercy before judgment.

Sid: And after 3 years of this being a best seller you have a new book. Just out of curiosity you mentioned the Shemitah in the Harbinger… first of all what does the word Shemitah mean?

Jonathan: Shemitah, well it’s so rich with meanings. The Shemitah refers to the Sabbath year in Israel. And that is that every 7 years there would be a rest and there would be no working of the land, no plowing, no sowing all that and no selling of the fruit. It was just a total rest, economically, everywhere. And then in the last day of the Shemitah it’s called Elul 29 on the Hebrew calendar. The last day something unique happens, all of the nation’s financial accounts is wiped clean, all credits wiped away, all debts wiped away all that. Now this was to be a blessing for… when Israel turned away from God the Shemitah, or the Sabbath year, turns around and instead of being a blessing it becomes a sign of judgment on the nation that has driven God out of its life. That’s it’s pursuing gain ahead of God and that strikes the financial realm, the economic realm, that really collapses things. So Shemitah can mean a release, but it can also mean a collapse or a fall. And so this is amazing thing that you know that first of all with the harbingers it basically is that these warnings are manifesting in America. And these are 9 signs that are happening in the last days of Israel that before its destruction are now manifesting in America. Well the Shemitah is part of that, and the amazing thing Sid you know is that even when I wrote the book I didn’t realize what we’re going to talk about now it’s so big that this mystery lies behind the rise and fall of Wall Street, economic recession, depression, the collapse of the economy, but also the rise of nations, the fall of empires. In fact, something I didn’t realize when I wrote it it’s been affecting our lives, and it’s before 9/11, it’s been affecting our lives from before we were born. It’s affecting us now, this mystery of the Shemitah, and it’s going to affect us in the future. Really much of this Sid came in the last really few months.

Sid: Now how do you feel about this book compared to the last one “The Harbinger?” How essential is this for people to understand the mystery of the Shemitah?

Jonathan: I believe it’s absolutely essential because it’s affecting, it is affecting our lives. It will affect our lives we are at a point where there’s another one coming. We don’t think that God has to do it in this exact way and this exact time but many things are pointing I believe that this mystery is going to affect this nation and everyone listening right now very dramatically. And when we begin as we open this up we’re going to see that it has really affected all of our lives up to this point. But I believe it is intensifying now because of where we are at as a nation.

Sid: Where does this mystery really begin?

Jonathan: Well in ancient Israel with this we have this Sabbath year that God gave now but the thing is in the time of Jeremiah the Prophet the mystery of the Shemitah turns from this nice Sabbath year to become judgment. What we have to remember is when judgment fell on the nation of Israel and Jerusalem is destroyed and the land was destroyed and the people were taken into exile from the land are in Babylon God says something it’s amazing thing. Because it’s going to be under judgment for 70 years, the land is not going to have people working on it it’s just going to be devastated. And 70 years and says why because of the Shemitahs. In other words because of all of the Sabbath years that they did not observe now the land is going to observe the Shemitah. So now the land is going to observe the Shemitah. So in other words the Shemitah becomes not just this nice Sabbath year it becomes the judgment on a nation. And so therefore you know it actually wipes away the nation. So this is what’s going to lead up to what’s happening in America. And one of the things of the Harbinger and the Shemitah in the beginning we found this amazing thing and that is that this ancient mystery is still in effect. And the key to the Shemitah is the 7 year cycle. Well you have this shaking of America happens on 9/11, and then you have this second shaking and the last 14 years it’s been 2 major shakings. And that is the collapse of the economy itself.   The great recession, the collapse of Wall Street, now think about it. The 9/11 happened in 2001, the collapse of Wall Street happened the great recession happened in 2008, that’s a 7 year cycle. It happened, the collapse happened in September that’s 7 years to the month of 9/11. It happened the second week of September and that’s 7 years to the week of 9/11. When America would celebrate or commemorate 9/11 the second shaking is being set in motion in Wall Street and it reaches its peak, the absolute peak comes the greatest crash in America history happens in the end of September 2008. When did it happen? The greatest crash in American history it happens on the exact day appointed in the Bible, the day of the Shemitah, Elul 29, that is appointed to wipe away financial accounts, debt and credit in a nation that has driven God out of its life. I mean that itself is mind boggling but it gets even more mind boggling because the mystery of 7 year cycle. Go back 7 years from that crash and it brings you to 2001September that’s 9/11 but you have the other greatest crash in American history that happened September 17, 2001 that’s about 7 years but when you strip away the western calendar and you go back to the Hebrew calendar the other greatest crash in American History happened on the exact same Biblical day appointed in the Bible to wipe away the financial accounts. I mean this is mind boggling.

Sid: Okay, this begs the question to me, when does the next Shemitah, or the year of… what does Shemitah mean exactly?

Jonathan: It could be taken as the year of release, but it can also be the year of collapse.

Sid: Okay, so this begs the question, when does the next Shemitah, the year of release as you pointed out but it can also be the year of collapse. Then depending how you’re looking at it when does the next Shemitah come?

Jonathan: The next Shemitah is beginning in September 2014 and it happens on September 25^th. Easy to remember that because it’s my birthday so I can remember that and remember it, then it concludes on September 13, 2015. And I know that we’re going to get into exactly what that means, but one note generally in the beginning it’s not dramatic we may not even notice something; but if it happens as it has before but if it happens the way that it has before it’s the peak and when it gets to the end; when it gets to that Elul 29 that’s as we’re going to see that’s when dramatic things, cataclysms happen.

Sid: Yeah, I know that you don’t know that it’s going to happen on this particular Shemitah, however when you say cataclysms could that really happen?

Jonathan: Yes, yeah, yes it could. And when I say cataclysm when we get into it is that not only can it you know it can be not only economic and financial it could be more that. Because one of the things that kind of blew me away was just in the last month or two of seeing this is that it can even cause the collapse of nations. So while we don’t put God in a box I would be aware of the times and I would be ready.

Sid: Refresh my memory again, the Shemitah in Hebrew means what?

Jonathan: The word Shemitah means it can be taken as it’s from the root word Shema; it can be taken as the release or the letting go. The resting, it refers to the Sabbath year that they released everything, they released the land they released their debts to each other, but it also becomes a sign of judgment and it can also mean the falling, the collapsing the shaking, the ceasing, so it’s so rich with prophetic meaning.

Sid: Now you say the Shemitah actually affecting our lives in a profound way today. I mean nations fall, nations rise, the economy falls, the economy rises, the stock market, wars all tie to this cycle. Give me a couple of examples of things that occurred on the Shemitah which is that one year of Sabbatical rest that we just everything is a rest in Israel. But it didn’t happen and when it didn’t happen they got it anyway in the form of judgment rather than blessing.

Jonathan: Exactly, they got it any way that’s exactly it. Yeah, so the Shemitah then becomes a sign of judgment on a nation that has driven God out of its life. That’s what happened it comes back and it’s not a rest as a good rest it comes back in a ceasing, in a shaking in a falling, in a collapsing. And one of the keys of it or the first key is that this link to the economic realm and the financial realm that’s where it begins. We have a year of rest or your production stops, your labor stops, everything stops. On the last day of the Shemitah remember that amazing day of Elul 29 all of the financial accounts of a nation are pretty much wiped away. In modern terms this becomes a recession, depression, or the collapse of Wall Street. Now let me give you some things, when I wrote the Harbinger, I had a sense but I had no idea how big this was. And just an idea of it and we already saw how the last two greatest collapses of Wall Street happened on the exact day of Elul 29 on the day appointed to wipe away our national account. But before all of this, even before 9/11, even before the Harbingers this thing has been affecting. If we look back, if you go back in the last 40 years of our lives let’s say starting around 1973 or so; you look at the greatest turning points the greatest economic, financial turning points, the long term crashes, the you know you look at that you’ll find that there are 5 great you know collapses this is not day collapse this is recession. Well if you look back at them I’ll just give you an idea, one of them crosses around the year 1973. The next one is around the year 1980, the next one is around the year 1987, the next one is the year 2000 and the last one is the year 2007 when the economy went dead, the stock market turns everything goes. Look at that, first of all when you look at the first 3, say we have 73, we have 80, we have 87. Notice that there’s a seven year cycle in between each of them. Go to 2000, 2007, 7 year cycle in between. Not only is there a 7 year cycle but each of those greatest collapse those that I mentioned were the years of the Shemitah the appointed time in the Bible everyone of them. If you look at the greatest financial turnings of the last 40 years every single one of them 100% stopping at the appointed time of the Shemitah. It goes more, Sid when you look at the greatest, the greatest collapses of… really in history and this is the you know the whole 20^th century and with a long term of the turning of the stock market of the great depression all of that. Out of the top 11, 7 of them happened in the year of the Shemitah that same way. But it gets even more mind boggling because if you look at the original, actually if you look at the times of the stock market, like the greatest crashes that say the day crashes in stock market history you see something else that’s really amazing. And that is that they happen, they’re all clustering around this mystery. If you look at the 10, and I’m not an economist so you don’t have to be an economist to know this. If you look at the 10 greatest point crashes in history what you find is over half of them… oh actually 60% of them or the majority of them happened clustered not only in the month that the Bible appoints to which is the month of the Shemitah which is the month of Tishri. All of these stock market crashes they all cluster, if you notice, you may have noticed it. They generally cluster around October, September October.

Sid: Okay and Tishri is what month of the year Jonathan?

Jonathan: Tishri is September – October and remember we said “When does the next thing going to begin, the next Shemitah. It always begins, it always begins with Tishri and then when you have it at a year from that beginning when you have that great, you have that wiping out of accounts that also happens at the moment, at the sunset that Tishri begins. It actually happens at the Feast of Trumpets and so the amazing thing is when you look at the crashes of the economy, this is you know what we’re talking about right now have not been said but Nobel laureates don’t know this and we’re knowing this because of the Bible. And that is when you look at how many of these greatest crashes take place in Tishri or the Shemitah time it’s amazing I mean it’s like it equals up to let’s see 70% of them, 80% of them it all depends on the figure. If you look at the greatest percentage crashes in America history they also cluster the majority of them all cluster around Tishri, the autumn the time appointed in the Bible. You know and here’s another one and you don’t have to know much to know this the point is what we said is that there’s one day when everything is wiped out Elul 29. And if you look at the greatest, this is called the 5 greatest point crashes in stock market history. And you take how close did they appear, how close did they happen to this moment of impact in the Bible this wiping away, the percentage is 99%. They all cluster not only around Tishri but right by that day that God appointed to wipe out the finances of a nation under judgment. It’s amazing.

Sid: I have to ask you this question, you obviously understood the principal from the Bible of the Shemitah, you talk about it in the book of the Harbinger. As you got into this did you have any idea that it would predict the future, that it would be patterns that affect each of us? The number of judgments that have occurred in Shemitah years, did you have any idea that it would be this big?

Jonathan: Well it’s amazing Sid the answer is no with a little yes and that is that there’s one little verse in the Harbinger where the character Noriel asked the Prophet “Does this thing extend beyond like the just 9/11 where you have these 2 gigantic crashes, or does it go beyond.” And the Prophet answers “Well it’s not for this time.” Now to do this, well now is the time. Well I had a sense that there was something there that’s why I wrote that it’s a little thing most people missed it in the Harbinger but I had no idea until I was asked “Listen could you do something on the Shemitah?” And I said “Alright I’ll help you out with the publisher, I’ll help you write something. It turned and then I was blown away, no I had no idea and as I was doing it the mystery kept getting bigger and bigger I realized this thing has been affecting every one of our lives. You can look at your lives and you can see what’s happening during this time and it’s not only Wall Street, it’s not only our bank accounts it’s not only our pocket books it is literally, literally the rising of nations including America and the falling I mean everything.

Sid: Do you believe that if a believer understands these principals they will have a leg up if you will over the world?

Jonathan: Yes, yes absolutely. I believe, I believe that the Lord wants us prepared. It says He doesn’t do things before revealing this to His people. So I do believe He wants us to prepare, so the wise man prepares, sees calamity coming and prepares. Not that our hope is not in this world but we are to be prepared in this world. You know I’ll give you, let me just throw this in you know you’ve known Sid we’ve heard things like when the world wasn’t prepared with things like when the depression came. They called the greatest crashes, the 3 greatest percentage crashes are called black Monday, black Tuesday, and black Monday. Two of them were from the great depression, one was 1987. On the Hebrew calendar black the black Monday or the second greatest crash is Tishri 24. Black Tuesday Tishri 25 and then in 1987 black Monday greatest crash percentage is called Tishri 26. Every single one of them, if you knew the Bible you’d see that every single one is according to God’s plan.

Sid: Oh, you point out things happen on the precise day that this pattern is but I’ll tell you what we’re out of time…..

Sid: I have to tell you the last time I was in Israel Mishpochah I had lunch with my friend Bob Fischer who lives in Tiberias, Israel. I went through his book “Full Circle” and I read things in this book that I only wish I knew before a believer in Messiah. I only wish I knew this information in sharing the Messiah with not just Jewish people with all people, its mind blowing. He’s done research on the Dead Sea Scrolls and on the Judaism at the time that Yeshua walked in the flesh that very few people understand. I mean if anyone should understand it should be me. I’ve been a Jewish believer in the Messiah for over 30 years. But there is revelation in this book called “Full Circle.” As a matter of fact I have him on the phone right now, Bob Fischer where did you get the title “Full Circle?”

Bob: Well Sid it has two sources really, I believe that the modern day church with all of its problems of liberalism and the ordination of homosexual pastors and all of the rest it’s starting to fall apart. It’s lost a lot of membership over the years and that trend seems to be accelerating. As the Dead Sea Scrolls become translated and the church learns more and more about its Jewish Roots the people that are leaving the mainline church are having a longing to return to their Jewish Roots. So the concept of “Full Circle” is that it began as a very Jewish enterprise the church on Mount Zion. It evolved into where it is today through several iterations of the interjection of paganism and…

Sid: I imagine most Christian would be shocked and that’s the only word I could think of if they had a clue as to what the first church was like.

Bob: Oh, it was a wonderful church; it was Jewish you know it’s really quite amazing these people were Essenes, they were Nazarene Essenes. They had their roots in Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were written and where they were found. But there were other Essenes all over the Galilee and all over Judaea.

Sid: You know I wasn’t aware of that I always thought of the Essenes as a radical sect that didn’t marry and just died off. But you bring out in your book that they were actually the largest group in Judaism.

Bob: Oh absolutely they were well certainly they had a group at Qumran. I’m guessing by the information that I’ve been able to research and from my own best estimates I’m saying that they were about 100,000 in strength at their peak. They were in affect the Vatican or what the Vatican is to the Roman Catholic Church. And out in the Galilee, and out in what is today modern Syria, and elsewhere where there were about 300,000 others and they were living a normal life. They followed the same theological understanding and worship practices as they did at Qumran, but they were normal people. They worked, they married, they had children and they worshipped God and they were waiting for their Messiah.

Sid: But the thing that’s so amazing to me is that I often wondered based, myself and you for that matter, I come from a traditional Jewish background and I know the Messianic expectations of traditional Judaism and how in the world we could make the leap from the traditional Jewish Messianic expectations to Jesus being the Messiah, that’s too big a leap. But as you showed the revelations we found in the Dead Sea Scrolls show that it not only wasn’t a big leap it was an easy leap for those that were of the Essene sect, s-e-c-t, that were in Judaism. But for those that perhaps are not that familiar of the Dead Sea Scrolls tell me about them.

Bob: It’s really quite amazing Sid they wrote down in the Dead Sea Scrolls a description of the Messiah who they were expecting. And they talked about first of all that He was divine, that He was part of the Godhead, a 3 part Godhead which was really astounding thing.

Sid: About how old are these Dead Sea Scrolls?

Bob: Ah, they were… they started write them in about 250 BCE and they finished writing them down pushing it right up about the time of Yeshua.

Sid: Okay, but you’re saying to me that in the Dead Sea Scrolls the Messianic expectancy was a triune God!

Bob: Absolutely and this came…

Sid: This mind blowing Bob!

Bob: It is mind blowing!

Sid: I mean you take 10 Jewish people and you say “Do you believe in the trinity or the triune Nature of God? And they’ll say “Absolutely not.” But you’re telling me the major sect within Judaism pre-Yeshua, pre-Jesus believed in it. How come this has been hidden from us?

Bob: Its amazing Sid I’ll tell you one even better than that. Back in the time frame of 500 BCE the mainline Jewish Sages in centrist Judaism, Hasidic Judaism, were teaching the Triune Godhead. And it was later written down in 3 books in about 200, they were actually teaching the concept of a triune Godhead; I’ve written all about this.

Sid: So why don’t we hear anything about this thing about it in Judaism today. If we hear anything we hear that that’s the difference between Christianity and Judaism. Christianity believes in a triune nature of God, or the trinity and Judaism believes in the Shema, one God!

Bob: Now well that’s oh boy that’s a whole bunch of good questions in one. First of all modern day Judaism evolved from one of major sects from the time of Yeshua the Pharisees. The Pharisees had a totally different view of the Messiah they had the same view of Messiah that was handed down, into modern day rabbinical Judaism. That is to say that He would be a prophet, a priest and a king that would come and solve all of the problems of the world. He would bring peace, but there was nothing about his nature that would be atoning. The Essenes had a totally different idea they were looking for an atoning…

Sid: But wait wait the Pharisees and the Essenes had the same Torah, the same Bible how did they come up with different views?

Bob: Well, they simply had them from the very beginning. Out of mainline Judaism at the beginning of the time of Yeshua there were 3 sects broke off of from mainline Judaism, or mainline Judaism evolved into 3 sects:

1. The Sadducees
2. The Pharisees
3. The Essenes

Sid: Okay anyone that’s read the New Testament knows that about the Sadducees, knows about the Pharisees. The Pharisees were the ones that Jesus was having a lot of trouble with as I recall. No one knows about to speak of the Essenes, why don’t we for simplicity sake take these 3 branches of Judaism one at a time and find out what they believe. Why don’t we start out with I always heard it was explained the Sadducees were very sad because they didn’t believe in the supernatural. Is that why they were sad?

Bob: Oh…

Sid: And they got their name Sadducees?

Bob: Three different characteristics Sid let’s talk about the understanding of the nature and substance of the Godhead.

Sid: Okay.

Bob: The Sadducees saw God as being uninterested in human affairs and therefore unwilling to intervene but there isn’t any evidence that they saw the Godhead as anything other than an indivisible unity. Now as to the body of canonized scripture from the Sadducee point of view they only embraced the Torah that is the first 5 books. They rejected the remainder of the Tenach that is the Old Testament. They did this because Messianism was a major theme in both the prophets and the writings. And the Sadducees boldly cast aside any eschatological expectation that there would be salvational atoning Messiah who would eventually shoot forth from the house of David.

Sid: How about on something like the oral law or the Talmud would they believe in that?

Bob: Absolutely not, no, that was that was the Pharisees.

Sid: Okay they just believed in the first 5 books of the Old Testament nothing more, nothing less.

Bob: But even more important than that they had a view of heaven and hell that they actually had no view of heaven and hell. They believed that the soul died with the body, therefore they had no doctrine whatsoever after this life.

Sid: Now I know why they were named Sadducees!

Bob: They were very sad but the full understanding of the bodily resurrection….

Sid: Weren’t they real political?

Bob: They were quite political. They were the elite they came from the upper classes they provided most of the high priests. They were very much into the temple and when the temple went away in 70 so did they. They basically just disappeared.

Sid: They must have had a fierce fight with the Pharisees!

Bob: They had a terrible time with the Pharisees.

Sid: Now tell me a bit about the Pharisees.

Bob: Okay, let’s look at the Pharisees from the same cardinal points of view with respect to the nature and substance of the Godhead the Pharisees understood that Yahweh God is interested and very much involved in human affairs and He’s willing to intervene. But they also had the view that the Godhead was an indivisible unity so they shared that with the Sadducees. Only the Essenes had the view that it was a triune Godhead. With respect to the body of canonized scripture the Pharisees embraced the entire Tenach not just the first 5 books the Torah but they took in account, and really gave equal emphasis to the whole thing. But in addition to that they embraced what they call the Oral Law that they believed was handed down on Mt. Sinai to Moses at the same time the written Torah was. And it was ultimately written in written form in the Mishnah and the Talmud, but they give the Mishnah and the Talmud equal weight to the written Torah. The heaven and hell concept… this is really fascinating to me that the Pharisees held that for those that led a righteous life that was achieved through of righteousness they would go to heaven immediately. And for those that were unrighteous they would go to heal immediately but for those that were somewhere in-between they would have another opportunity they would be reincarnated into another body and have another shot at it if you will.

Sid: But that’s against Torah and we’re also out of time. But Mishpochah you really have to understand what the first church was like.

SID: So Julie, they see you sing at the piano and they say, oh, she has got this glamourous life. But Julie is a soccer mom. Her kids, she has identical twins. Talk about–

JULIE: Very busy.

SID: Sure. And even that busyness, for four years she heard about people that had dreams and visions, but she wasn’t having much. So she wanted it. So she prayed for four years in between soccer games. Why did you keep up? Why didn’t you just give up?

JULIE: Well in 2000, I just remember the day I was sitting at my piano and I was singing scripture. It was when my kids are at school, I was singing Revelations 4:1, you know, “There was a door open in Heaven,” you know, “Come up here and I will show you things that must take place after this.” And I knew it was from John, but something hit my heart, and I just said, I want this. I want it and I won’t stop until I get it. And it was just a groan. It was just, it consumed me. I read, I knew Acts 2:17, “It’s a personal promise”, and I just began to ask for it over and over, I want to see you this side, you know. I get to on the next side, but this side.

SID: You know, I’m reminded with you of the promise in Ephesians that you will get exceedingly, abundantly beyond anything you ever asked or thought according to the power that dwells within you. That’s what happened with you. She didn’t just have dreams and visions. She actually was there. She was taken to these places. She felt it. She experienced it. But I recently had guest on, one of my favorite people, Heidi Baker.

JULIE: Yes.

SID: And you had the privilege of going to Mozambique to be with Heidi, and you were ministering there like you minister for us, and what happened?

SID: It was amazing. I simply, again, because I love the Word, I began to sing, I just opened my Bible and I started singing from Revelation 1, where John sees, he turns around and he sees Jesus, and he begins to describe, you know, what he looked like. I simply began to sing this portion of scripture, starting in verse 12 to 18. And suddenly, I mean, 100 percent, not just to some people, the whole room, it was the Harvest School, every single person was caught up in dreams and visions.

SID: About how many people approximately?

JULIE: Oh maybe a couple hundred. It was full. And I remember I could, it lasted like three hours and I was just singing the Word, and like the spirit of prophesy fell on the room, and people just began, would begin prophesying over different people. But everyone was having dreams and visions, and encounters, and they were laying out on the floor, and I can hear moans and screams, and laughter, and all these different sounds. And I mean, the Spirit of the Lord was there. It was an encounter. And the next day, the reports that I started getting in were, you know, people taken to Heaven. The one that impacted me was a young girl and she had been taken to Hell.

SID: To Hell.

JULIE: People were having, they were having dreams, they were having visions of Heaven and Hell, both. But this young girl was taken to Hell and she saw her family in Hell. And then she came, I mean, then she was out of it and they brought her to me the next day. But what happened is what I felt from the Spirit of the Lord. I said, I believe that the Lord is putting His burden on you. Have you been praying for your family? Have you been praying? No, she said, she really hasn’t, but she said, “Ever since I saw them in Hell,” she said, “I am gripped. I can’t stop praying for their salvation.” And I said, “That’s the purpose. It’s not, your family isn’t going. I don’t believe that.” But her heart got gripped with the burden of God to pray for salvation for her family. And when I said that, I said, this is the purpose. This is the point of the vision that hope, the grief left her, but the burden stayed.

SID: Julie, you have so many songs that, I think it’s unfair to even call it when you minister and sing at the piano, “songs”. Something, it’s a dimension beyond that. Would you go to the piano right now, because one of my favorite is, “Beautiful Healer”. I’m going to believe that the beautiful healer is going to visit you right now. Many, many, many people will be healed while Julie plays and sings.

[piano music]

Julie [singing] Wonderful savior, kind-hearted God, beautiful healer, merciful one. Wonderful savior, kind-hearted God, beautiful healer, merciful one. You are the fountain of life. You are the essence of healing, living water in abundance, rushing, rushing, rushing, flowing, flowing, flowing to me. Right here, right now. You are the fountain of life. You are the essence of healing, living water in abundance, rushing, rushing, rushing, flowing, flowing, flowing to me.

[music]

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world, you guys are really enthusiastic, where it’s naturally supernatural. One of the signs of the soon return of the Messiah is Jewish people coming to believe that Jesus is the anointed one, is the Messiah, not just of Israel, but of the whole world. Well my guest is a Jewish woman from Brooklyn that had surgery, that supernaturally, this wasn’t the purpose for the surgery, but supernaturally her voice changed and she has a voice like Barbra Streisand. Now Michelle, you don’t know this, but I love the Brooklyn accent. I love people that were born in Brooklyn. And you’re Jewish. You were born and raised in Brooklyn, one of my favorite places. But if someone had said to you as a young person, what is your belief in God, what would you have said?

MICHELLE: First of all, thank you for loving my hometown. I’m a Brooklyner, I’m a little Jewish girl from Brooklyn, darling, you know. But my family growing up believed God was very far away. If he did exist at all, my dad actually wasn’t even sure he existed because of the Holocaust and all the horrible crusades, and things that happened to Jews. So my, we weren’t really sure there was a God and I didn’t feel connected to God if there was one at that time.

SID: Did you ever go to synagogue on high holidays?

MICHELLE: Yes we did. High holidays we went, especially Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, yeah.

SID: Okay. Now you were raised in a pretty abusive situation. Your mom was bipolar, a lot of fighting going on. You had verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse.

MICHELLE: You know Sid, I grew up with a mother who was bipolar, manic-depressive. I’m not sure you’ve experienced that, but it’s basically a swing of behaviors from extremely happy, joyful, fun, supportive to extremely sad or angry. And in my case, it was extremely traumatizing. My mom would get so angry that she would actually wrestle me to the ground in anger. Later on, she explained that she would actually see red and couldn’t even control this behavior. It was a completely chemical imbalance. And she would then apologize and say, “I am so sorry. I love you, I love you, I love you.” This was traumatizing for me.

SID: But at age eight something amazing happened to you. Explain.

MICHELLE: I remember crying out in my little bedroom. I had this beautiful bedroom with a pretty canopy. I felt so safe there. And I would pray, I cried out, “God, whoever you are, wherever you are, I just want to die.” I can’t believe an eight year old would think that. I have a six year old. But it is just amazing they have the capacity to feel even that much pain. And I felt, I heard the voice of God in my heart at that very moment. It was so awesome. He said, “Michelle Gold, you cannot die. I have a plan and a purpose for your life. You’re going to sing and write songs, and your songs are going to bring healing to the world.”

SID: Now in your house, music was like a god.

MICHELLE: Oh my goodness, yeah. I mean, in some ways it was fun. We sat around the piano. Mom sang like Ethel Merman. My dad sings like Tony Bennett. He’s such a beautiful man. And my brother sounds like a lead singer of Metallica. You can imagine the sounds in my house.

SID: So you’re going to be rich and famous. You go to Miami and you meet your cousin. He’s going to make you a star. But he does something different. You’re walking on the beach.

MICHELLE: Oh my gosh, what a shock.

SID: And he leads you to the Messiah.

MICHELLE: What a shock. Oh my gosh. I went to Florida to be famous. You know, a lot of people think, you know, you have this emptiness and you want to fill it up, and different things. And I always thought fame. That’s it. I just need to be known. If people knew me they would love me and I would feel fulfilled. But it’s so not true. So not true. But at the time, I fled to Florida My cousin was a Jewish believer in Yeshua Jesus. He was actually partly disowned by some of the family. My uncle was the very first, my mother’s brother, to receive Jesus, and was, he was actually someone we were not allowed to speak to. He told my cousin and my cousin told me on Miami Beach in the middle of a production session. We took a break, walking along the beach, and he said, “Michelle, Jesus is the Messiah.” He said, “All the first believers were Jewish people. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, they were Jewish. And the most Jewish thing you can do is believe in your Messiah. You know, at the time you didn’t need to explain Isaiah 53 or even those awesome scriptures, but I believed it. I had the faith of a child. I said, “Right now I receive Jesus right now as my Messiah.” And this beautiful grace came over me. It was awesome.

SID: You know, what Michelle is describing right now is, there’s a Hebrew word. It’s called

“shalom.” In fact, would you go sing that for us right now.

MICHELLE: That would be awesome. I’d love to do that.

SID: You see, with Jesus you have shalom. Without Jesus, you don’t have shalom. You say, oh Sid, there’s got to be another way. No. There’s no other name given on to man in which we must be saved. His name is, in Hebrew, Yeshua, in English, Jesus.

MICHELLE: [music, singing] [Hebrew] How can I rejoice when my people are crying. How can I sing when Jerusalem is… Can you hear me calling shalom, shalom, shalom. My people cry shalom. I see Christ. Shalom. We say shalom, shalom, shalom. My people cry shalom. I see Christ. Shalom. Thousands of years have come and gone. What have we learned, what have we become. When will this war come to an end. I’m looking forward to the day when Messiah comes to join me, I’ll turn to my enemy and say, you’re my sister, you’re my brother and say shalom! Shalom! I’ll turn to my enemy and say shalom! Shalom, my people cry. Shalom!

SID: So my guest David Herzog, I’ve been out to his home, I’ve known him many years, and he’s a pretty healthy guy. And not only is he a pretty healthy guy, he’s married, he has three daughters and his family is pretty healthy. In fact, they’re in the front row. Would you stand up for a moment. Thank you. There’s the Herzog family. Now David, you’re obviously doing something right. But tell me a bit about what I am holding in front of me. This is juice. It’s just been juiced just a few minutes ago. You told me every morning when you wake up, what do you do as far as eating or drinking?

DAVID: I make a different smoothie like you’re drinking right there. That looks really good. How’s that?

SID: Well we Jews, Gentiles are to provoke the jealousy. We’re both in trouble. Someone from a non-Jewish background won’t want to drink this. No, I’m just teasing.

DAVID: You’ve got in there living food. You’ve got like what I do in the morning, I put like kale, berries like that’s in there, avocados, all kind of living antioxidants, this coconut water as a base, I think is in there. So it’s so tasty. It’s like liquid energy going right in your body, heals your body, energizes you. And then you go pray after that, watch out, you’re going to have a good prayer time.

SID: Now let me ask you some practical questions. Organic food you recommend, it’s more expensive.

DAVID: Yeah.

SID: Why is organic food better than regular food?

DAVID: Well they don’t put all the toxins, all the sprays, all the pesticides, you don’t want all that junk in your body. Really bad for you. And you get way more nutrients. When you buy an organic apple, for instance, or a pear, you get like ten times more the nutrients than a non-organic. So you actually get way more for your money.

SID: Now when you teach, you teach about something, frankly, I don’t know much about and I don’t see why it’s so important. You talk about the need for every year to have a cleanse of your colon, of your liver. Explain why you say things like that.

DAVID: Sure. Because every year as you get older, your body doesn’t process the things like it used to, especially in our modern world. So you got meats that are sitting in your body from years and years.

SID: Wait. Really and truly?

DAVID: Oh yeah.

SID: From years?

DAVID: Yes.

SID: How gross.

DAVID: Exactly.

SID: But not just gross. That’s got to be awfully unhealthy.

DAVID: Yeah. And so it creates a toxic environment. It creates really bad sludge in your colon, in your liver, which eventually leads to cancers and sickness. You get that out of your body then your body can function like it’s supposed to.

SID: Well what about someone that doesn’t sleep well at night? I know about how important sleep is. But if you’re not sleeping, what do you do about it?

DAVID: Well if you’re not sleeping at night, first of all, see what you’re doing that may be causing it. So an hour before you got to bed if you start to cut off all electronics—that keeps you awake.

SID: Why would electronics?

DAVID: Because electromagnetic frequencies are so fast on the technology we have today, it keeps you awake. TV, movies, cell phones, I-pads. And like your grandparents, I bet you when the sun went down on their day they just went to bed. A lot of people’s grandparents, these days, people can’t sleep and kids can’t sleep. The mind gets too active. The body gets activated. So that’s one thing they can to help them sleep.

SID: You know, I heard you teach and you said something I’ve never heard before. He said that if I went to bed earlier I would get better sleep. Now I’m thinking, no, I want to stay up late so the minute my head hits the pillow I’m going to fall asleep. But he says the opposite. He says, go to bed at 10 p.m. Why do you say that?

DAVID: Well between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. your liver starts to detox. So if you consistently sleep really late at night, past one, two in the morning, your body doesn’t have the chance to detox. So you take eight hours of sleep from 10 p.m. Or if you went to bed at 2 a.m., you will feel way more refreshed at 10 p.m. getting eight hours. Those who sleep late sometimes require more sleep because of that.

SID: Now there’s a word that doctors like to use a lot. It’s called “stress”. And tell me about stress and tell me what can be done about it.

DAVID: Sure. There are different kinds of stress. There’s of course emotional stress, issues in your heart that you don’t deal with. The Bible says, “Don’t let the sun go down with anger,” for instance, that’s a stress. So is reliving emotional issues. There’s electromagnetic stress like your cell phone right next to your bedside, many people can’t sleep. Until they put it away, suddenly they can sleep. So there’s mental, there’s spiritual stress, there physical stress on your body. There’s not sleeping. And so all those create a perfect storm. And even people have stress at work. They think, oh my gosh, my boss wants to talk to me today. I’m so scared. Maybe he’s going to fire me. They think the worst. Perception creates stress. So changing your mindset, your emotions, your heart, your spirit, and you can leave stress that way.

SID: Now I’m going to tell you a secret about David Herzog. I know that for some strange reason he started eating garlic one day like an apple. Why did you do that? You didn’t think I’d tell them. Okay.

DAVID: I knew he was going to pull one on me. I was in Indonesia and—

SID: This is very good, by the way. You know what? Wouldn’t it help just if I took some berries and a banana, and some kale, and just munched it down rather than work with a blender?

DAVID: Well what you just did there, you just saved about an hour, a couple hours actually of your body digesting it, of you chewing it. So it goes right into your blood stream as opposed to eating the same ingredients. First of all, you wouldn’t be able to eat it all. A lot of times you’ll get full. Secondly, that goes straight into your bloodstream. You don’t have to break it down. You get instant energy, instant nutrients.

SID: Okay. I want to know about eating garlic like an apple.

DAVID: Well basically I had an abscessed tooth. I was in Indonesia doing some very large meetings. And for two nights, I couldn’t sleep. My tooth was just hurting me so bad. So I said, what am I going to do? And I started researching and asking God to help me and show me. Usually He heals me, but this time, He told me, “I want you to be healed naturally.” He told me, and I found it on the Internet after praying, garlic. Chew on a clove of garlic on that part of your tooth where it’s abscessed. I started doing that for about half an hour and it was gone. It has never come back since. Because garlic acts like an antibiotic, but better with no side effects.

SID: Now why do you say, have food that isn’t processed or isn’t cooked, to have just raw, organic food.

DAVID: Sure.

SID: Frankly, that doesn’t sound real tasty to me.

DAVID: Oh if you think that’s good, you’ll love our dishes that we do. They’re wonderful.

SID: This is great.

DAVID: Well you can make really healthy tasting, really tasty raw foods: raw ice cream, raw pizzas. Raw is good because all the enzymes are in there.

SID: What do enzymes do?

DAVID: Well when you’re young, you can go eat all the pizza you want and you don’t gain weight. After a certain age, you eat a little cake, you gain weight. You eat pizza, you gain weight. You can’t get it off. So because of enzymes your body isn’t producing. Raw food has all the enzymes in it. So as you age you want raw foods so all the things in your body come out quickly. Basically whatever you eat, if it doesn’t come out, it’s still there.

SID: On that, we’ll be right back. But trust me, there is going to be an eruption of miracles, I promise you. Don’t go away.

SID: You know when we started the show we were talking about a move of God’s spirit in Finland. This would not have happened if Finland wasn’t such a friend of the Jew in Israel. This would not have happened unless someone who understands the Glory of God was sent to Finland. David, what is the Glory of God?

DAVID: The Glory of God is how you would feel if you were in Heaven. It’s the atmosphere, the air of Heaven. That’s the Glory of God. And having that on the earth as it is in Heaven. How is it in Heaven? No sickness, no sorry, no pain, no lack, joy, peace, love, ecstasy of God, intimacy with God, all that that we hope to get when we die and go to Heaven now on the earth. That’s the Glory.

SID: Okay. What is the difference between someone having the Messiah of Israel living inside of them, their sins forgiven, the presence of God inside of them, praying for the sick, or having the Glory of God all around? You know, I almost believe that Adam and Eve who had the Glory of God around them, that was their clothing.

DAVID: Exactly.

SID: [It] was the Glory of God.

DAVID: Yes.

SID: So why do we need the Glory of God if we’re born from above, our sins are forgiven and the presence of God is inside of us?

DAVID: I meet a lot of Christians that are frustrated, even ministers, they’re doing the stuff, they’re praying for the sick, they’re seeing some results, but deep down inside they say something is missing. They’re saved, they love God, they’re not living in sin, but they’re missing something. And they get so desperate to tap into God they press in and they come into this Glory of God, and they say, that’s what I’ve been looking for. Because the Bible says, “All that sin come short of the Glory of God.” So when we find that glory it is like a cloak around us, and in the Glory, things are different. Like you can just speak someone’s name and say, “Bob, be healed of cancer,” who is like 3000 miles away, and they’re instantly healed. No distance in the Glory. No time in the Glory. And just the gifting and anointing, a lot of times people think, I have to go pray for someone, drive three hours, lay hands on my mother-in-law. But in the Glory, it expands and there’s no distance, there’s no time. God bends the time continuum in the Glory.

SID: Tell me one instance that comes to mind when you operated in the Glory, one true instance.

DAVID: Okay. I was driving my car one time to from across the country of France. It was an eight-hour drive with my wife, and my friend driving us. And we were late, and it was eight hours, and we just worshipped God, praising the Lord, and we started feeling lighter, and lighter, and lighter, and two hours into the drive we were already there on the border of Belgium, the complete other side of the country. That’s impossible in the natural. Even going as fast as you can go, that was the Glory. The Glory bends time.

SID: That sounds pretty exciting. I mean, because time, that’s important on this side of Heaven. But David, how can I move in that Glory? How can those that are watching us right now move in that Glory? I mean, it sounds so wonderful. I experience the Glory from time to time. But I want it to be with me 24/7. How did you move into this realm?

DAVID: Well number one, I was just desperate. I just said, God, I have to have it. You have that desperateness, too, and I know people watching have that. Just, God, I so desire to be in your presence, in your Glory 24/7. If you desire it, the hungry will be filled. If you’re hungry and desperate you’ll get it. And then there’s other things you can do. When I wake up in the morning I praise and worship God because “we’ll enter His courts with praise,” the Bible says. So I praise, worship Him and His presence begins to come. And then there’s the blood. I say, “Lord, cleanse me of everything that is wrong that you know, conscious or unconscious.” And blood is the access into the supernatural. It’s the access to the throne. “Come boldly to the throne.” Where’s the throne? In Heaven. So in the Glory you can actually go into your heavenly place. We’re seated in heavenly places. And you begin to pray from your heavenly seat and things start to happen on the earth.

SID: Now can you pray for a release of the Glory that we can be clothed in the Glory of God. Could you pray for us right now?

DAVID: We lift our hands to you, Father, in the name of Jesus. We thank you for your Glory, Lord. Cleanse us in your blood and give us access to your throne. You said we’re seated in heavenly places. Open the realm of Glory right now and put people in a presence of God that you’ve never had before. And I can see Heaven. I see a door. I see the throne of God. I see the myriads of angels. I see Yeshua on the throne. And just go into that realm right now and then present your case before the Lord. Worship Him, love on Him. Live in that heavenly realm. I just decree glory to come on everyone watching and everyone in the studio audience, in Jesus’ name.

SID: Now I feel the presence of God, David. But you told me you experienced a greater quantity of this Glory when you were in Finland.

DAVID: Yes.

SID: Than you’ve ever done in your life. I believe that that same glory has followed you here.

DAVID: Yes.

SID: And I believe there are people that doctors have said, you have a short while to live because you have cancer. There are people here that need a new heart. There are people here that need a new kidney. There are people here that have diabetes. There are people here with pain all over their body. There are people here so depressed they’re crying on the inside, but smiling on the outside. Would you pray for them right now.

DAVID: Sure, I’ll pray right now. Father, in Jesus’ name I thank you right now for those who are watching and those in the studio audience that you would do the same glory, the same miracles as we saw in Finland just recently, where blind eyes were opened, deaf ears were opening, so many souls were being saved. That same glory that we just experienced days ago to come on people watching right now. Let your Glory come, Lord. I decree cancers are gone in Jesus’ name. Weight loss miracles are happening right here on the studio and on television right now. I see deaf ears opening up in Yeshua’s mighty name. I see those with metals in their body, metals, go right now. Skin diseases being healed, back conditions that they’ve had for years, the bones, the ligaments, the sciatic nerves, the tailbone, everything to line up and the discs right now in Jesus’ name. Spots in your eyes, cataracts, floaters, go. Someone on medication and the medication is really causing side effects, I command your body to be healed right now. Insomnia being healed right now. Depression, breaks, paralysis, you can’t walk or you can’t move your arm. Body parts, paralysis be healed in Jesus’ name. A lady named Mary that’s watching right now and you have a major issue with your throat and you’re immune system, and Mary, be healed now in Jesus’ mighty name. And there are so many others. If you’re sick in your body just lay hands on the part of your body that’s sick right now in Jesus’ name. And I decree right through the television and in the studio audience you’re being healed. Even someone missing hair, hair is growing, thickening. Bald spots start to grow. That fuzzy little hair begin to grow right now. Teeth miracles are happening. Missing teeth, crooked teeth, teeth with holes in them, I declare them all heal now in Jesus’ name.

SID: David, the greatest miracle is about ready to happen. If you believe Jesus died for your sins and you’ve told him you’re sorry for your sins, and ask him to live inside of you and say, “Jesus, you are my Lord,” it is done in Heaven as on Earth.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I think about Adam and Eve. I think about what life was like not knowing fear, what life was like with such an intellect and brain, and memory, that they could name every animal and create the name themselves, all the animals on Earth, what it would be like to not experience sickness, what it would be like to hear God absolutely clear. Is it possible to recapture what the first men and women had, but lost? My guest wants to mentor you because he says there’s more. There’s so much more. So David, as long as I’ve known you, you have operated in what is called the Glory of God. You have seen, I know this is hard for some of you to believe, but David has seen people like his own father where there’s no hair, the hair grows. David has seen, tell me about it, your father is Jewish.

DAVID: Yes.

SID: What happened to him?

DAVID: Oh you know, he doesn’t have a lot of hair. And during the meeting I had a word that someone is growing hair. He checked his hair and the bald spot starts to fill in.

SID: Now I have personally been at David’s meetings sitting behind a woman with grey hair and I’m watching before my eyes, and the hair turns brown. I have personally, I can tell you, you know, I’m an investigative reporter. I’ve personally got to David’s meetings and I have been to a couple in a row, and I’ve seen people come with their belt loops getting, their belts getting smaller and smaller until they run out of holes in their belt. I mean, they’re like shrinking. David, now, you think that’s interesting, that’s a nice word. You think that’s interesting, what is happening with people with metal in their bodies?

DAVID: Yeah. We just got back from Finland, a national move of God in Finland and people with titanium plates in their chest and their bodies, and their back, start to disappear right in the meeting.

SID: Now Finland, I don’t think of Finland as much more than a religious country. Is this something new for Finland?

DAVID: It’s a new national move of God I’ve never seen in over 20 years of ministry like I’m seeing it right now. Amazing.

SID: Describe what was going on.

DAVID: People from everywhere, six cities, people from all over the cities running in to be saved, to be healed, worshipping for hours, signs, wonders, miracles. It’s like, and the glory that we felt was over the top. The love of God, I’ve never felt and seen the love of God among God’s people that I’ve seen in Finland.

SID: So why Finland? Any idea? I mean, what’s wrong with the United States? I mean, what are we, Swiss cheese?

DAVID: Well it seems like God specializes in countries that are little, not known and on the ends of the earth, kind of like Israel. Everyone thought, why Israel? Well Finland is a country that loves Israel. They bless Israel. Government officials and Christians really love Israel and I think because of that there’s a connection and a favor for revival.

SID: I believe that the dividing line of the true believers—in the true believers in the Messiah and the counterfeit will be, are you on God’s side in reference to the Jew in Israel? I have to tell you this, there’s something that is very, very puzzling. We’ll talk a bit about the Glory later. But David has learned how to tap into the Glory, the manifest presence of God, and all these miracles take place. So why, if this happens, have you devoted the last 20 years of your life studying how the body operates in nutrition and what to eat, and what not to eat? Why would you even waste your time?

DAVID: Because I found out a lot of people can get healed in a meeting, but they don’t keep their healing. A lot of people work for God, they travel, they minister and then they die young, even miracle evangelists. And I started realizing there was a connection between keeping your healing and getting healed.

SID: Now you said to me, when people do not take care of their body naturally, they don’t have energy, they can’t think properly, they can’t sleep properly, they’re overweight, they can’t fulfill their destiny. These are pretty good reasons to be interested in nutrition. I want to find out, because you see, I believe that everything on the earth came in its original state from God. And there are, although it’s in the natural realm, supernatural ways of restoring the health our ancestors had. Don’t go away. Be right back after this word.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah but on yesterday’s broadcast I found out that she said “God I am so desperate for you I know that there’s more I am totally dissatisfied.”  But wait a second now Debbie Rich; how could someone that sees the miracles you see; see’s people’s lives transformed under the anointing of God as you proclaim the words of God; seen the dead raised; have had heavenly experience; how can you say that “You’re totally dissatisfied where you’re at?”

Debbie:  Well, I believe the the more we know Him that the more we want to know Him.  And Smith Wiggles-worth; that famous English preacher who had 20 some people raised from the dead; made a statement that I  believe represents this.  He said “The only thing that I’m satisfied with is my dissatisfaction because God wants to take us from glory to glory to glory.”  I don’t want to stay where I’m at; I’m so thankful for what I have seen; what I have known and the people’s lives who have been changed in our ministry but I know that there is more.  And I want to reach the entire world with the gospel; I want the whole world to know that Jesus Christ is alive and well; and so I know that there is more yet.

Sid: And you are prophetic; are you a prophet?

Debbie:  Yeah, well I’m hesitant to call myself that because I know that there’s so many people that try to put labels on themselves.

Sid: But most of the profits I know are non-profit but anyway. (Laughing)

Debbie:  (Laughing)

Sid: Anyway seriously you told me that God showed you what is about ready to happen in the United States and even the world. Briefly tell me.

Debbie:  Well, I would just say that this is more of an inner knowing but there have been several times that we’ve stepped out and begin to prophesy things above where our natural thinking is at. And I just know that the immanent return of the Lord Jesus Christ is nigh at hand.  And…

Sid: But Debbie, every generation has said that and every generation should say that but you feel that this is really it.  Oh, yeah just within the last few months can feel things building. We can see somethings in the natural that a person would have to blind if they know the word of God not to see things developing around us.  But it’s what the Holy Spirit is telling on the inside that we must reach the lost now; that He’s coming back for His bride and He wants a Bride from every nation and every culture.  And all I keep hearing him say is that it would be a new awakening in America and Canada where I’m at right now.  The liberality of the laws we see people taking God out of everything..

Sid:  Listen on TV in Canada you’re not even allowed to talk about homosexuality.

Debbie: That’s right.  

Sid: It’s you’ll break the law if you say that this is what the Bible says.

Debbie:  That’s right; and I’ve just found myself weeping the last few days and I can tell it’s the Spirit of God grieving that we must have revival; bring in this harvest and we’re going home. And judgment is about to fall; especially upon the nations that know better.  And..   

Sid: Well, I’m reminded of the scripture “To whom much is given; much is required.”   So America has no excuse.

Debbie:  Absolutely, none; absolutely none.

Sid: Debbie, when you were a crying out to God the other day and you had that marvelous visitation you said to God “You were willing to pay the price; what did you mean by that?”

Debbie:  Well, I believe to operate in the supernatural realm that we’ve got to have a sensitivity to the Holy Spirit where the things of this world to quote an old song singing “Grow strangely dim in the light of His wonder and His grace.” And I want Jesus to become more real to me than anything this earth holds.  And I believe it’s part of paying that price where you’re not caught up in the things of this world and the relationships of this world. And sometimes you can become too conscious of the persecution against you.  I want to get to the place that “Jesus You’re all that matters and I will go where You tell me to go and I will say what You tell me to say and I will not hold back even though it may be costly for me; even though…

Sid: That is not the 21^st century American gospel.  Let me explain you don’t know Dr. Debbie Rich that the gospel according to the 21^st century American version is “Say a prayer with Billy; live like the world and you have your life insurance policy.”

Debbie:  Yes, that does seem to be what is being propagated but that is not what the Bible tells us.

Sid: There is such a difference between the Bible and what we’ve been taught; I think that the greatest hoax put on American Christians is what I just said.  Read, the Bible…you know I tell Jewish people “Read the Bible; think for yourself.”  Well, I’m going to tell people who call themselves Christians and act like the world “Read the Bible; think for your self.”  What does He mean where He says “Narrow is the way that leads to life; few there are that find it.”  I mean and that is not what is being taught in the pulpits of America.  Debbie, I’m going to take you back to when you were 18 years of age; just a kid. You met a guy; he swept you off your feet, but he wanted to marry you. Why did you marry him?

Debbie:  Well, I grew up in a small Pentecostal Church and I was under the impression that you know there is just nobody serving the Lord and if somebody says that he is and he’ll go into the ministry with you you better take him. And he was very romantic and as he said “Debbie, I’m not called to preach but I know you are and I’ll be behind you all the way and I’ll go to Bible school with you.” And I had my doubts something seemed wrong; he didn’t seem as on fire for the Lord as I was. But when I talked to people about that they said “Oh, you’re just demanding perfection Debbie; how many men are going to be willing to support you in the ministry and go to Bible School with you; you know those are little things that you are concerned about.” And I thought “This is just prenuptial gritters I’m just concerned about.”  I’m nervous something seems wrong but you know I was a kid and had not been taught enough about listening to that voice of the Holy Spirit and I overrode those checks. And thought “This is just nervousness and I’m going to go ahead and marry him and we’ll go into the ministry together and it’s going to be wonderful.”

Sid: Like television taught you.

Debbie:  Yes.

Sid: Or the movies.

Debbie:  Yeah.

Sid: But unfortunately it was the opposite; it must have been one of your worse nightmares.

Debbie:  Oh it was; in fact last night in my service I thought that the Lord told me to get more detailed than I’d ever gotten about it to help others get healed up. And He told me to start doing that more; but I woke up to abuse the next morning that lasted for the next 18 years.

Sid: Was it mental or was it physical abuse?

Debbie:  It was both and it daily a barrage of verbal abuse.

Sid: Why did you stay with him so long?

Debbie:  Well, I’d grown up in Pentecost and I’d felt that divorce was probably about the only unpardonable sin and I felt that I’d never have a ministry. And then we started having the children I thought for the sake of the children I need to stay with him.  Only to realize all these years later that more pain was afflicted on my children and that they use to hide in the closets and pray that I would have the courage to leave him.

Sid: Tell me a few of the details.

Debbie: Well, I was not allowed to ever see a doctor and when I became expectant with my first child he said,,,

Sid: Why didn’t he want you to see a doctor?

Debbie:  Just because of his own lust and perversion he felt that a doctor could not look at a woman and not lust after her.

Sid: Hm.

Debbie:  In fact he wouldn’t even speak to me on our honeymoon because my mother had taken me to a doctor before we were married.  And he said to put it in very blunt words he said “I feel like the doctor got you and not me and so I’m not going to speak to you.”  And then when he finally started speaking and went to Bible school he got in fights in Bible School.  If somebody was just parked in his spot he got out of the car and beat them up.  And then one day I came home from Bible School and work and found out that he had withdrawn me from Bible School.  We went to work for the pastor  he grew up with as the youth ministers and we got fired from that position.  And I found out that he was making passes at the girls in the youth group and I just felt that I was doing something wrong; I wasn’t in faith enough; not pretty enough. If I’d get my act together he will love only me.  And so I dieted and I lifted weights; he asked me to that because he was a weight lifter until I was so thin that I was about ready to blow away.  And then I became expectant with our first child he wouldn’t allow me to see a doctor.  I tried to have that boy alone and out in the country and we both almost died. And when my mother-in-law came and called a rescue unit when I got to the hospital they said that “He would have never been born and we would have died” And there was physical abuse on occasions where I was kicked; my glasses were broken and I was hit in the face.  There would have been that daily had I never had said no to anything but I never did because I knew that was what would happen.  And he continued to have affairs with…he made passes at my relatives; my friends all through the years.  And daily told me that I didn’t have him I would have nobody because I was too fat at the weight of 105.  And just terrible temper and just perverse lust (where some of that abuse is what I don’t get into publicly) but that was as bad as anything to where even though he was my husband the perversion he was into he could not be satisfied. I felt like I was being raped daily.  And so I had abuse on all sides for 18 years.

Sid:   Knowing what you know today what advice would you give to a woman that is listening right now and going through the same thing.

Debbie:  Well, I would tell her first of all that God does not expect any woman  to live or any man for that matter to live in fear of their own life. Losing their life to be beaten up to be abused like that.  Woman are to submit to their own husbands as the church submits unto Christ who gave His life for the church.  But a man like that is not loving his wife as Christ loves the church. And you don’t have to submit to sin; you don’t have to submit to the devil or to hell. And I would say first of all; get in a safe place; seek the Lord and continue to pray and believe for his deliverance and his turnaround but you don’t have to live in it while he is making the free choice to submit to the Lord or not.

Sid: I mentioned though that a lot of woman are in these situations because they have children and if they were to leave they can’t support themselves.

Debbie:  That’s right; that’s right. There’s a terrible fear and when you’re under that kind of verbal abuse you lose all dignity; you begin to not be able to think for yourself when you’re under that kind of domination.  And you have no respect for yourself and you can’t even hold your head up after awhile or make decisions.  And that’s when you have to say “Jesus you have to be my strength, my grace; my direction; and you and I can do anything Lord.”

Sid: Debbie, I’m sorry we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast. Mishpochah whether that’s your situation or another circumstance that says “You can not achieve what God has for your life; that’s a lie.