Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Michael Brown. He’s president and founder of Fire School of Ministry in Concord, North Carolina just outside of Charlotte. I recently conducted a debate between Dr. Michael Brown, a Jewish believer in the Messiah, and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, that many consider as the most famous, or the most prominent traditional rabbi in America. The subject was “Who is Jesus?” absolutely high adventure. Very few Christians have ever heard the arguments that traditional rabbis have as to why Jesus is not the Messiah. Why? They don’t want to stop a Gentile from believing in Jesus, but there are literally rabbis that have spent a third of their life just studying to prove Jesus is not the Messiah. Their arguments are very very credible if you have never researched these facts, but if you research them there are good answers to good objections. So that’s why we had the debate “Who is Jesus?” I have on the telephone right now Dr. Michael Brown. Mike why would a traditional rabbi with so much credibility as Rabbi Shmuley Boteach even be party to a debate like this?

Michael: That’s the question that many Jews ask Shmuley as well. I really have to commend him for doing what he feels is right. I’ll explain his motivation in a minute because we’ve actually become good friends, and we’ve spent many good hours together on a personal level. We do honor and esteem each other as fellow Jews. You see the normal Jewish view would be this:

1. Don’t give these guys a platform. They’re just missionaries don’t give them a platform.
2. To engage them in debate is to give credibility to their position and to acknowledge them.
3. There’s a bad history of forced debates in the Middle Ages where Jews had to debate the Christian oppositions. So the history leaves a bad taste in our mouth.
4. These things stand against positive Jewish Christian relationships.
5. Why give them any opportunity to influence people at all.

So based on that, Shmuley has had strong resistance “Don’t do these debates.” The reason he does them… when he was at Oxford University and headed up a very large student group “L’chaim” there, a Jewish student group. He brought in all kinds of foreign dignitaries and different people to speak to the students. He also debated almost everybody on any subject. It didn’t matter what their position, if it was in his mind a wrong position or an anti-God, or anti-Jewish, or anti-moral position. He’d debate Oxford professors and this and that. So a lot of this is in his blood and he believes that Judaism has to be able to survive in what you could call the market place of ideas. In other words, if you go back words, if you say we’re not going to discuss this, that’s only going to hurt the cause; rather Judaism has be able to come into the public forum defend its ideas, defend its views in such a way that it has nothing to fear and nothing back down to.

Sid: You know Mike the debate almost didn’t happen because Rabbi Shmuley showed up we were doing shows, and he walked in and said “I’m ready for lunch. Where’s my kosher lunch?”  and he asked someone that didn’t realize that we had set aside a kosher lunch, and they said “Well we don’t have any kosher lunch here.” With that he thought “I’ve been betrayed” and he goes stomping out, and who does he walk into? He bumps into you. What happened Mike?

Michael: Well you I travel a lot just like Shmuley. You don’t like it when you arrive somewhere and things are not setup properly, you kind of feel slighted. You were doing what, I think 10 different shows that day, and didn’t have the ability to coordinate picking up every last person at the airport, etc.  You had been conscientious enough to have 2 kosher meals waiting there for Shmuley, I guess for lunch and for dinner. Yeah, the wrong person was asked, so he just felt he’s been slighted; wasn’t even betrayed he just felt “Look I come all this way my own time, there’s no reason to do this, but solidarity with Mike, and being willing to do these debates. Now I get here and I’m not even being treated properly.” So I showed up and we went out for a kosher lunch together. I said “Hey Shmuley I’m with you whatever you want to do I’ll stand with you, it’s just fine.”  He said “No let’s go ahead and do the debate I’m here.” So I was pleased he did it…

Sid: I imagine he felt better when he found out it was a misunderstanding, and we did have a kosher meal for him.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah in fact we enjoyed that for dinner. We went to a restaurant and he got his kosher meal…

Sid: What did he think afterwards between you and me, what did he say about me because that was the first time we met, and the debate?

Michael: The debate, first he really enjoys doing them. We’ve done a series of face to face debates probably in front of more than 4000 people at least in the last 2 years. So they’ve really drawn people in different settings from college campuses to hotel auditoriums. He really enjoys doing them because of the intellectual stimulation. He misses the debating atmospheres he had at Oxford. So for him every debate is an intellectually stimulating thing and he thoroughly enjoys it on that score. Once he was on he liked you as an individual, he thought you spoke well and he was positively impressed with you. Overall, everything got straightened out well, and he had no regrets about the debate felt positive about it, and felt it was good sharp and intellectually stimulating.

Sid: Okay. There’s something you’re aware of, it was in the intellectual arena. Although it’s important for people to think for themselves and have the facts, I decided at the end of each show I would talk about something that is not a debatable thing, and that is intimacy with God, knowing God for yourself. So it’s almost like on our show It’s Supernatural I use miracles to grab someone’s attention so they can hear the gospel. That’s what too me, the exciting thing about the debate because we had to grab the attention of Christians, Muslims, non-believers, and anything Jewish people. I mean it’s a fascinating thing when 2 Jewish people go at and one says “I bet my life Jesus is the Messiah” and the other one says “I bet my life Jesus is not the Messiah.”

Michael: You know here’s the other side of it Sid that needs to be considered. You know we rightly commend Shmuley for going against resistance and opposition to do these debates. He’s definitely to be commended for it intellectually and spiritually for doing what he does. Let’s flip this around Sid, the majority of your viewers are probably believers, the majority of your listeners are probably believers, and we as Jewish men who love Yeshua were not afraid to bring on a very sharp, a well-spoken, well-educated man to have him challenge what we believe in public.  In other words, we have nothing to be ashamed of, we have nothing we’re afraid of, we don’t have some system that we erected and it’s all a house of cards and you blow on it and it comes falling down. For years I have been looking for people that were willing to have public debate and dialog. See when I first came to the Lord I was challenged left and right “Well you don’t know anything how can you teach, how can you explain things” and I’m sure they would have debated me in a heartbeat, but once began to learn and understand and be able to give more support to my position intellectually and academically, suddenly the debating challenges seem to dry up. So we need people to understand, and anyone listening that doesn’t know the Lord this is an open book, this is not secret system where you get initiated somewhere, or like the Mormons where “We don’t tell you the whole story up front, cause if we told you the whole story up front you’d never believe it you’d run from it.” This whole thing is open and Jesus would say “Come and see, come and see” the psalmist said “Taste and see that the Lord is good.” Last night my wife was watching the old Ben Hur video and that’s an extraordinarily powerful Christian witness. At the end of the movie when Ben Hur’s mother who’s a leper is miraculously healed by the Lord and there’s that sense “He’s real this thing is real!” Sid you and I have experienced that not just when we first got saved, but in different ways through the years. Sometimes you breakdown crying because “He’s real look at what the Lord has done,” it’s not a matter of we have this ancient faith and these historical documents about someone that died and it’s a good story. We’re talking about someone who is alive today.

Sid: Listen every time I speak Jesus shows up, and miracles happen, and I have to tell you, like yourself, I’ve been a believer now over 30 years. It never gets old, it’s the most exciting thing… I live to see God demonstrate His greatness.

Michael: Sid if we don’t have an ongoing experience with God, I don’t mean that we don’t have struggles and problems, I don’t mean that we push a button and automatically get millions of dollars and perfect health and never have a battle. If we are not walking with God, if we cannot tell someone what He is like and who He is, if we don’t have a living testimony something’s missing and it’s not on God’s part. He’s saying “Come and swim in the waters of My life.”  That’s one thing I love just to talk to traditional Jews about “Okay you be very sincere, you may be very devoted, I’ve given you my arguments for what I believe, why not ask God to show Himself, why not ask God to speak and act” because that ultimately is the thing that’s going to settle all arguments when God Himself works in someone’s life. What can they say when they’ve had an encounter with God?

Sid: Now what does a rabbi or a traditional Jew say when you say “Ask God” what would he say to that?

Michael: Generally speaking they would feel that to ask for revelation is to go against what is written, to go against tradition. They would say God gave us the rabbis, God gave us the Talmud, God gave us the traditions, and we shouldn’t ask outside of that. Everything we have is self-sufficient it was good enough for my father, my grandfather, for his grandfather it sustained us through the holocaust, it sustained us through the inquisitions and the crusades. So we have been explicitly told not to worship idols, we were explicitly told that Mt. Sinai when God revealed Himself there was no form so don’t make a form of a man…

Sid: I tell you what, we’re out of time.

Sid:  Now my guest LA Marzulli has a brand new book “On the Trail of the Nephilim” and LA tell me about the American Stonehenge and start out by explaining what Stonehenge is and why this is so amazing?

LA:  Well Stonehenge is a place in England which has been the sort of mind boggling or boggling the minds of archeologists ever since people started looking at it.  These stones that comprise Stonehenge were brought from hundreds of miles away.  A henge is a circle and Stonehenge is of course, a henge made of stone.  What’s amazing about Stonehenge is that it shows the solstices and the equinox; it’s a very complex calendar.  And whoever did this did it very deliberately. There is also something which I find interesting about Stonehenge there’s not a glyph, or a rune, or any type of signature on who did this.  I believe it’s 1000′s of years old and I believe this is the technology of the fallen ones.

Sid: Maybe because back then there was no technology on planet earth like that.

LA:  Now like this, not the type of celestial mathematical precision that we see used in Stonehenge.

Sid:  Okay, now you say there’s something called “America’s Stonehenge” explain.

LA:  What’s interesting technology is coming from somewhere there’s someone that’s very intelligent that is instructing the people who are here on how to build this stuff and what this stuff means.  And also I believe that there’s a connection with the Nephilim here’s why.  There’s a 4000 year old structure in New Hampshire it’s called America’s Stonehenge.  Again a henge is a circle; this one is a Stonehenge in New Hampshire. Like the henge or the Stonehenge in England the one in New Hampshire also has standing stone which are placed outside the circle which you can… when you’re standing in the center of the circle you site the standing stone for say the summer solstice the longest day of the year and you will see the sunrise come right up over the top of that standing stone.  And so it’s very deliberate very very deliberate whoever is doing this. Well there is a man by the name of Kelsey Stone he’s 22 years old and he’s a college student and his family the Stones, no pun intended, his grandfather actually bought the property and they are the curators of America Stonehenge they own the property.  So he’s on Google Earth one night and he’s messing around and he decides “What happens if I take a line from the center of my henge America’s Stonehenge and draw it out to the first standing stone of the summer solstice?  So he does that and he continues that line and he continues that line and continues it further.  And after thousands of miles of extending that line… remember if you’re off 100^th of a degree you’re going to be who knows where.  That line Sid wound up intersecting the center trilithon those are three rocks; the center trilithon in Stonehenge, England thousands of miles away.

Sid: So there’s an intelligence connected with it is what you’re saying that is beyond natural science at that time in history.

LA:  You can’t do it; you can’t do it in antiquity. The only way you can do it in the present day with satellites overhead and this is still telling about this. Who is the prince of the power of the air we know it’s Satan.  The only way you could do this in antiquity and this site by the way is 4000 years old that’s been radiocarbon dated 4000 years old.  Which means whoever’s doing this there’s no way you can go across the Atlantic and intersect Stonehenge it’s very deliberate but it gets even better Sid.  When you extend the line from Stonehenge, the same line now, you end up in Beirut, Lebanon.  Beirut, Lebanon is the home of the Phoenicians and the Phoenicians are the direct descendants of the Canaanites.  And the Canaanites were a Nephilim tribe which Joshua and Caleb fought to destroy in the conquest of the promise land.  And we discovered that once again it bolsters our theory, it bolsters our paradigm that these ancient megalithic stone structures that we see were part of some sort of a grid, pre-flood and also post flood.  The fallen one seems to have had some sort of commitment grid, these were not temples. When we see them laid out with type of mathematical precision from American’s Stonehenge to Stonehenge in England to Beirut, which is the home of the Canaanites, the descendants of the Nephilim.  It seems to me that it’s reasonable to state that there is an outside agency which I of course believe are the fallen ones; Satan and his boys are doing this stuff to create a grid a communication grid as it were.  Some sort of a grid that would perhaps control the weather.  And we know it will be like the days of Noah and this is where it gets really mind boggling to us. I believe Sid that the grid is back again, it’s different than it was in in antiquity, but it’s back and we know it as the World Wide Web compete with the hundreds of satellites that orbit the earth.  We are locked into a grid system right now with benevolence, but when the anti-Christ rears his ugly head he will use it just like the book of Revelation tell us with great just right in front of our faces.  That no one will be able to buy, sell or trade without this mark.  And this ties back into the grid, it ties back into the grid, it ties back with the fallen one, Satan, attempting to create man in his own image.  And that’s what this implant this mark of beast that we talked about earlier I believe this is what it will do.  It will turn a human being genetically because this is what this chip does alter their DNA so you become a modern day Nephilim

Sid: You know what’s coming to mind is the Prophet Daniel says “In the last days knowledge will increase.”

LA:  Yes.

Sid:  Well, that’s knowledge from the demonic side but it’s also knowledge from the Godly side.  I mean without this information a lot of the Bible you can’t connect.

LA:  Look, I agree I think again it goes back to our interview earlier when Jesus warns us it will be like the days of Noah I mean that’s the nexus of this whole thing I mean that’s the center; that’s the hub of the wheel right there.  Every all the spokes of prophecy coming out from this thing; unless we understand this cosmic chest match if you will between the most high God and the fallen one.  What’s really going on here is the seed war as some people call it; the seed of the serpent, the seed of the Messiah.  I mean that’s what it really comes down to.

Sid: LA we were talking earlier this week that this is sort of like Jesus said “It will be like the days of Noah before he returns.”  Tie everything that you’ve been speaking about together as to why it’s like the days of Noah.

LA:  Thank you Sid for the opportunity to do that. I believe that Jesus is showing us in very distinctly what it’s going to be like in the day right before his return.  And unless he comes back he warns us no flesh would survive and I think that’s the most chilling sobering statement in all of the Bible.  Unless those days were shortened no flesh would survive and those days are going to be very similar to the days of Noah.  What differentiates the days of Noah is the presence of the fallen angels.  The Hebrew word for that Bnei haElohim; the falling angels cohabitating, having sexual relations with the woman of earth and creating this ungodly offspring known as the Nephilim.  Now we see and we’ve talked about this with what I believe the alien abduction from the phenomena.  There is a tie in here; Satan is back to his tricks he’s definitely trying to manipulate the human genome via by what I believe is the mark of the beast.  This chip that we’ve seen I’ve handled it, I’ve seen it under a scanning electron microscope.  I think it’s changing the human DNA, that’s what it will do it will cause an upgrade.  Remember millions of people worldwide will take this mark and receive it and this ties back into Darwinism which we talked about.  If there is no God and we were created by extraterrestrials and now they’re back at this critical juncture in human history. Perhaps after a cataclysmic war in the Middle East to usher us into a time of peace prosperity and knowledge. They’ll come with two things free energy but the other thing is the DNA upgrade because they were our creators. If we believe in the evolutionary paradigm it all fits.  They come back here’s the implant you’ll live disease free between 5 and 900 years and again this ties back into the days of  Noah because we know the life span of the days of Noah was between 500 and 900 years.  So I think this is what I coined the coming great deception; I think it here I think this is proof of what is happening.  It’s an end game it’s a Luciferian end game, the coming great deception, and I think that we’re right on the verge of it.  I think we’re already seeing some of it.

Sid: I’m wondering if this chip is going to be sold on that it’ll cause us to live longer and be healthier even.

LA:  Exactly, so if one mile wide UFO appear and the occupants tell us that they are progenitors, they created us here they genetically manipulated us here started the world earliest civilizations and now at this critical juncture in human history they’re to give us a DNA upgrade.  Wow! The line will form around the block.

Sid: Well, and your sanctified speculation, how far off is this?

LA:   I think we’re close, last week there was a meeting in Washington Press Corp, of former congressman, astronauts, people with very high military clearances all telling that the UFO phenomena is real, that it’s time to end the truth embargo the American people know, need to know what is going on in the skies.  And this is what I try to warn the church about.  This is not ET, these are fallen angels masquerading as such to cause the great deception.

Sid: As far as I’m concerned a lot of blanks and missing information about end times can be gleaned from your research.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed, we want everywhere telling them the good news after they demanded a platform by seeing the supernatural of go show up.  We want everyone everywhere mobilized.  I was so excited because my guests today are Tim and Katie Mather and they’re with Mega Shift Ministries, they’re spokespeople for it.  We’re making James Rutz’s book “Mega Shift” available this hardback book it’s new, it’s got pictures of all the miracles that are breaking out from people that have broken out of the system of the one man show. And there is mega shift coming on planet earth.  You know Katie you were telling me before we went on the air that we were talking about the differences between say a house church and maybe a congregation that has cell groups, and has home groups. The biggest difference between the traditional church model and the home group home church model has to do with the percentage of men.

Katie:  Yes, in September we were at the National House Church Conference out in Denver and I just looked over the conference room what really stood out to me was that there was a large percentage of men present. And I talked to one of the leaders of the movement about noticing the percentage of men involved.  And he said “Yes because what they’re finding is that men are really enjoying being free and empowered to serve in the Body of Christ in whatever their gifting’s maybe which includes being spiritual head of their home, no longer being dependent on a single man or a pastor to be the spiritual head of the church, but allowing Jesus to really rule.  And equipping men to be leaders in their homes.

Sid: What about the young people, the children, the teenagers there’s a whole generation of parents who have gone to church and have brought their children to the institutional church every week of their life, and now they’re lost, they’re totally lost.  What’s going on with the young people in the house churches?

Tim:  In the house churches we not only invite participation we practice participation. That’s when let’s say someone has a physical need instead of the leader or the facilitator of that group taking charge and praying what we do is we wait on the Lord to show who He  might want to just do that. And so we many times bring up young children and just have them lay hands on.  We’ve seen many many miracles happen in house churches just by a little kid laying hands on an adult person with a physical need.

Sid: You know I like to use the phrase ordinary people with an extraordinary God. That’s what I love about James Rutz’s new book “The Mega Shift.”  This beautiful hard back book it’s got pictures of ordinary people that have prayed and the most outstanding miracles.  I’ll tell you what it would stretch your faith to just read these because it’s well documented pictures of these people.  I mean some of these most amazing I’ve been interviewing people about miracles now for 26 – 27 years.  I’m an expert in this but I’ll tell you some of this stretched me; some of these examples in his book. Why is it in the average church in America we just see very few miracles today, very few?

Tim:  Well, I think it’s fairly well known that our relationship with God in this country in the western world anyway, is intellectual it’s an intellectual assent where as some of the people in these countries when they believe they believe the entire scripture.  I love the stories in their about the untouchables the cast of untouchables in India who people won’t even talk to.  But not only just the untouchables but the woman in India are property of mean. They’re hearing that Jesus raises people from the dead so they take it at face value and say “Okay Jesus is in me” and they go raise people from the dead it’s the most amazing thing.  Our belief structure is in the intellect and we have to be, we have to be trained, we have be… the Holy Spirit has to be allowed to have His agenda in it to release that in America.

Sid:  You know I see the fire and the excitement of brand new believers in the Messiah, and then I see them going to the system and end up like all the other people in the system.  There’s got to be a way to keep that fire going and get them to explode and lead their whole family to the Lord.  Tell me what types of miracles you have seen in your own house-groups.

Katie: Well, we’ve seen where just someone comes in and mentions well, I had this toothache I’ve had this all week and I can’t sleep and it’s keeping from my work.  And someone just pray, and even though we all want to pray, one person who I would say is more like a shy person that doesn’t think they have any supernatural gifts this man stood up and he said “Well, I’ll pray.”  And went over and laid hands on this other man, prayed a simple prayer we were all just in agreement, but I felt the anointing of the Lord as I watched this happen. I knew that there was virtue passing from the one man to the next.  And then the testimony of the man with toothache afterwards he said “It’s gone, it’s healed!”  And so we actually witnessed a healing through someone who was very ordinary and very unassuming, didn’t profess any supernatural gifting, but yet God moved.

Sid: But you know when someone witnesses this especially young people they will never forget it.  You have some examples Tim.

Tim: We prayed with a fellow about some stuff in his life and one of the younger guys in our group laid hands on him and prayed.  And then we broke up after a while and I got a call about 20 minutes later and the guy we had prayed for said “Tim!”  And I said “Dave!” and he said “I’m talking to you with the phone to my left ear.”  And I said “Well, good for you” and I had no idea what he was talking about.  He said “Was I supposed to get healed when that kid prayed for me?”  And I said “Apparently you were supposed to get healed.”  The Lord had healed him he had been deaf in his left ear from his brother had poked a nail through his ear when he was a kid and the Lord healed him and he didn’t realize it until 20 minutes later.

Sid: Ordinary people with an extraordinary God because this next move of God’s Spirit.. I’m sure you two are prophetic I’m sure that you know it it’s not going to be the paid professionals, it’s not going to be the televangelist it’s going to be average people with an extraordinary God.  What could happen to some one that is among the ranks of saying “I’ve been going to the same church 20years, I love the people I go back because I love the people but I’m really bored on Sunday morning.” They’re being honest I may not even vocalize it out loud but they’re vocalizing it to themselves they get a hold of this book “Mega Shift” by James Rutz what could happen to them paint me a picture.

Tim: The first half of the book is full of documented miracles, and he put that in this book to build our faith to say “These are people all over this planet who have just decided to believe that God can do what God says He can do, and they have just stepped out and done that. It begins to build your faith that maybe the Lord can do that through me as well.  And then the second half of the book talks about the whole house church and how to just go and do it and not be under other people’s control, just go and do it.  And then to prepare to send out the people that are in your group they shouldn’t stay there they should continue to go out and people are being born again, healings are taking place.  But from my vantage point we’ve got to mobilize, we’ve got to allow, we’ve got to train those Christians with this huge vast storehouse of knowledge of Biblical knowledge and understanding and to allow them…

Sid: It’s unfair, I’ve been to other places in the world and I mean the average Christian that’s been in church for 5 years could be of such value in most of the places of the world.  They’re like the first church, they don’t even have Bibles, they don’t even know the story.  We say “We don’t know what to do,” you got more inside of your head than they’ve ever heard before.

Tim: And all they have to do, all we have to do is decide to believe it and take a chance; our issue is many times we hedge what we’re doing because we’re afraid that God’s not going to show up.

Sid: Katie I’m going to ask you for the last word.

Katie: I think we just finally need to believe in what God is doing inside of each of us as believers and take Him at His word that He’s put His word in us so that we can share the gospel no longer be intimidated by the professional.  No longer be intimidated by our own lack of gifting but realize that it’s the Holy Spirit in each one of us that does the work, that does the miracles, that does the profound things and transforms people’s lives. And just allow Him to do that in us.

Sid: I’m so intrigued with Karen Wheaton’s teen group called “The Ramp” that started with just 7 kids and now 1000′s have participated in this. And as I said to her I’m sure these young kids are really keeping her young.  Karen tell me how you taught them to be worshipers.  How did you do that?  Did you have a seminar? How did that happen?

Karen:  You know in the early days of working with these young people here in Hamilton, Alabama I had fallen in love with the Holy Spirit myself… when I was a young child and I experienced His presence and I knew that I didn’t exactly have a manual of how to work with young people but I did know the way to presence of God.  I thought you know I may not be cool in their eyes but if I can get them to His presence He will wreck their lives for Him like He did me.  And so I taught them that #1 that there’s a real God and Sid most church young people need to understand and believe and be taught that there is a real God.  Not a religious God but a real God who comes when we seek Him.  And those young people began to seek Him and He came.  How did they learn to seek Him, it’s kind of funny, I remember when I first met with them for prayer we’d join a circle and we’d join hands and I say “Now guy’s we’re going to pray, come on now I want you to pray with me.”  They all bowed their heads and said nothing, you would have thought that we were saying the blessing at the table.  Because that’s really the only prayer that they had been around.

Sid: But you know it’s not just young kids I believer that most Christian’s don’t know how to worship God.

Karen:  It’s sad but true Sid. I determined that day I’m going to pray like I want to hear them pray someday.  So with those kids in a circle with me I prayed with all of my heart and all of the awkward silence just the way someday I would want to hear them pray.  And if you were to come to the ramp today you would hear 100′s of kids roar in prayer and roar in worship.

Sid: Okay, I’m going to grab one of your hands right now and there’s someone listening to me that’s going to grab the other hand and we’re among those original 7 kids that you started with. For about 1 minute I want you to pray like you might have prayed at that time.  I want to hear that Karen.

Karen:  Father we give you praise that You are real and there is no God like You in Heaven or Earth.  We worship You that You are God and nobody else is.  Father we praise You that when we call on You You are not far away but You are near.  And when we pray You come, so come Holy Spirit, come among us and reveal yourself and reveal Your heart and reveal Your worship.  We declare Jesus that You are Lord, You sit high and You are holy and You’re eyes look upon us now and we declare out of our mouth right now that You are God and You are our God and Jesus You are Lord.

Sid: Now when 100′s of young kids are holding hands and praising God like that Karen I have to believe anything is possible.

Karen:  [Laughing] Well, let me tell you something.  When you call on Him He comes and does not disappoint a true seeker.  And what I found in this generation is they have a heart that are seeking for truth.  And He is what they are looking for.

Sid: Now tell me just briefly about the song “Taken It Back.”

Karen: “Taking It Back” is a song that is a word of encouragement that everything that Satan has taken from us through the Word of God we are able to recover it.  And maybe today you’re listening and maybe Satan has come into your home and maybe to take your children.  Maybe your kids have come out and left and gone into bondage and gone into rebellion, well it’s just the devils tough luck that God gave that son or that daughter to you, because you’re going to stand in faith.  You go to the door of your house today open the door or your house like I did and say “In the Name of Jesus I call my son and daughter back to truth and in the Name of Jesus I take back what Satan has taken from me.”

Sid: This is a warrior song let’s hear Karen Wheaton “Taking it Back.”

Sid:  Anytime I get information of what God is doing and how we can partner with God at this moment I want you to know about it. Just literally off the press there’s a brand new book it’s called “Key’s to Heaven’s Economy,” an Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.  I have Shawn Bolz on the telephone speaking to him at his home in Foley, Alabama; he’s part of White Dove Ministries.  Shawn has had visitations of an angel called the Minister of Finance explaining how we are partner with God in these last of the last days. Shawn you have prayed for people to be able to move into this realm; what type of feedback are you getting from this, and you can’t have feedback from the book it’s to new, but you certainly have taught from this book for several years. Now what goes on?

Shawn: Oh my favorite feedback that I’ve been getting because we’ve taught seminars on this we’ve shared with people especially we’ve done things for business community and we’ve had politicians come in. I love it when they feel like they’re placed in their destiny they feel like they understand why they’ve pursued what they’ve pursued, and it’s as valid as any other calling.  And then they fell like they can start to see the provision of what God’s called them to in that destiny.  There’s an excitement there is a revitalization and there’s a furthering, there is an advancement in what they’re seeing. I feel like a lot of people don’t relate to maybe prophesy or visitations in the last day they think of ministry or it’s installment for apostolic anointing, or they hear that in conferences, or they hear that in churches. The average person doesn’t think about having a prophetic encounter maybe about their business or about their family or about you know the next politician that’s going to be raised up in their little city. That’s exactly what he wants to talk about and so it’s a prophetic impartation where people have been telling me about God told me where to go and get my books printed.  Now I’m an author, God spoke to me about one of my favorite ones was God spoke to me to do a prophetic clothing line where I would brand people with the young generation where there identity and I would start to create creative clothing that people could buy. Now they are starting to go into stores they were just on line and they have all kinds of clothes that you can order for your children that actually have the identity of God in them but they’re not just Christian t-shirts they’re tending and cool like what’s out there where you would see in the fashion industry.

Sid: Now you have a chapter in your book called “The Justice of Heaven” and you have some examples of, this is God’s time for justice and you talked about politicians tell me about that.

Shawn:  In my book in 2001 God woke me up and I turned on the television and He told me to turn on the TV and as I looked at it there was a man who was dealing the civil rights movement. He is a good man but he was stirring it with his agenda and he was fired up because of some of the prices we have in America.  And so he was stirring it with a very human agenda and that agenda began to infiltrate our city and I felt like the Lord said “This man is trying to stir up the civil rights movement with his own agenda but the civil rights movement is very precious issue to my heart and I will not let him do it in the city because of the prayer that was in Kansas City, Missouri.  He said, “I want you to tell the city leaders that I am cutting off his influence from our city, he as visiting from another city the politician plus in ministry. So I went to the city prayer meeting they actually called me up and asked me “Do you want to go to the city prayer meeting where all the pastors are praying together tomorrow?” And I was shocked because I hadn’t been asked to go to that prayer meeting before and they asked me if I would share something.  And so I shared this and it was very controversial because I named the man and I told them if them that if…

Sid:  Now you got chutzpa, that’s a Hebrew word it means nerve.

Shawn:  I did.

Sid: (Laughing)

Shawn: Well because the word was so specific… the point was about this man because I talked about this man if he continued to try and stir us up in Kansas City the Lord was going expose him in a scandal that he’d been involved in an adulterous affair.  And so actually shared this with two leaders I said we’ll be with him in two weeks if he keeps stirring this up and I said “But the reason why this is important isn’t because of his moral failure, it’s because the Lord loves the civil rights issue and He wants to bring justice in our city, and He cares about us and He wants to raise up political leaders and pastoral leaders who will take this governmental issue together and actually have a life of God over this civil rights movement not just a human agenda.  And unfortunately this man was in an adulterous affair and it was exposed two weeks later, but it showed that kindness and the love of God both to that man but also to our city where the Lord loves politics; He loves the political arena.  Not that He loves our government He’s not if we ask Him are you for our President or are you against our President?  He’s for that man but is He for him as a President; that’s only for God to know.  He’s a good God, but I feel like He cares about us enough and He cares about issues enough like the poor, like civil rights, like all these different issues that He wants to speak into them with a radical voice.  I believe He wants to point some Supreme Court Justices in America still that would help change the pattern of our government for the next 10 and 20 years.  And so I believe there are people who feel like they have a heart for the legal system and they don’t know that’s okay it’s a calling of God to go into that.  They feel like that maybe they’re supposed to be pastors because they feel called of God, but they have a lawyer in them and they need to go and become a lawyer, they need to go and become a judge.  That’s part of what I saw in this whole justice system of having being released is people that have the justice message but they’ll actually go into industries of the world that change things not just in the church itself because in the church we can be intercessors and that can provoke some of the greatest change.  But some of the intercessors need to stand in the gap of those positions.

Sid: What do you mean by stand in the gap of those positions take them?

Shawn: They need to take them, they need to become the next Supreme Court Justice, they need to become the next President.  I believe the Lord has a heart on someone and maybe they’re only 18 or 19 right now who believes in their heart they have a dream of becoming either a congressman or even the next President.  And the Lord wants to come to him and say “Go on that journey that’s a good one, go on that journey in your heart it’s not just pride but you have a heart to govern a nation with My heart.” He’s going to start touching young people especially in the political arena and especially in the justice circles.

Sid: Shawn the anointing of God just got so strong will you pray for people right now that we would have such a desire to partner with God’s heart wherever it takes us.

Shawn:  I agree, God I pray right now that there would be such an open heaven to see how you would want us to partner.  I pray that people’s eyes would open even as we’re listening together as we’re talking together their eyes would open to their greater calling that it doesn’t  have to be limited to what they’ve seen.  When so many people who are listening what they’re called to doesn’t even exist yet because it created now it’s new it’s for them.  Some of them are supposed to be Supreme Court Justices, some of them are supposed to be educators and they’re supposed to create new pilot programs for schools.  Some of them are supposed to do something that’s never been done before, and especially in this generation that has never been seen. We ask that you would open their eyes to see Your heart so that if they see Your heart they respond with a full yes that understands what they’re saying yes to.  We ask for the Spirit of revelation like in Ephesians 1:17 to open our eyes so that we can have full revelation of Jesus for our own life and our own destiny that we can say yes and partner.  Let your anointing rest that says yes to the fullness of Your heart.

Sid: For those that unfortunately just tuned in, Shawn Bolz had a visitation from an angel called the Minister of Finance; if you were to just summarize the major message He gave you what would it be?

Shawn:  That He is about to bring every resource known to man, especially the best resources known to man, in one generation all over the face of the earth all together under His Name to resource and to bring His inheritance forth. And I believe it’s like a picture of Solomon in the temple where Solomon had every great resource unto man to bring together demonstration of God’s glory and we are about to have the same thing in the Kingdom of Heaven invading the Earth and bringing every resource that we would need to bring His glory and His wholeness where people could look at the church, they could look at the Kingdom activities, they can look at Kingdom movies and they could say “That must be with Heaven’s like, I want Heaven, I want Heaven, I want Jesus.

Sid: I’m thinking in 3 years look what Jesus accomplished.

Shawn:  Absolutely.

Sid: And so where as you are talking about young people in many instances I believe there are some ancient anointing’s that can be grabbed right now from the Kingdom of Heaven that over the next 5 years can transform this whole earth.

Shawn: Absolutely, it’s time people have everything available to us, we have everything from every other generation. It’s a culmination of everything that’s been learned and there’s more understanding and more books written in this generation to educate us than ever before in history. It’s because God’s releasing the greatest amount of education we can ever respond to as a people. And now we can take that education and take the spiritual understanding from that and develop something that has never been seen before. Isaiah 49:6 and 8 and it says “Today I do a thing that you’ve never seen before so you can’t see ah hah I done this I’ve been there, I had it before but it’s new created now.”

Sid:  I promise you if you’re look warm and you choose to be red hot for the Messiah there will be such an outpouring of God’s glory that even as I’m speaking to you right now people are being healed. I heard that there are people in the necks if you move your head you’ll see the pain is gone. In the back, the hip any bone problem; any ache you are healed in Jesus Name.  My guest, and I have him in Chicago is Renny McLean, and his wife Marina McLean I have her in Dallas; this is really high-tech.  But Marina all this week we’ve been featuring Renny’s new book “Eternity Invading Time” and I want a demonstration of eternity invading time.  What is actually happening in the invisible realm when a true worshiper of God worships God in Spirit and in truth Marina?

Marina:  What happens is that worship sets the atmosphere of the earth for the glory of God and when you worship you’re recreating the glory of God rising from the Earth.  As early morning the due rises from the earth to the sky and you just set the presence of God ripe for anything to happen.

Sid: Speaking of anything you told me the last time we got together about a word of knowledge and a lady was healed of AIDS, I believe Renny had the word what happened?

Marina:  It was an unusual service and Renny looked at this lady and started praying by word of knowledge he said she had AIDS the HIV virus and we all thought “Oh my goodness he’s missed it nobody that would come into a service like this with HIV.”  And she was slain as he prayed for her and she got up and she just looked a little different and she went away and she went to see her doctor.  And when she walked into the room her doctor knew that something had happened and he did the test on her and could find no trace of HIV. The powerful thing about this miracle was that she was part of a support group for others with HIV and she was able to go out and evangelize to them.  And because of the miracle in her life her children came to church the following Sunday and gave their heart to the Lord.

Sid: Out of curiosity when she ministers now are people healed of AIDS?

Marina: I think so, we haven’t seen her in a while and the last time we saw her was a few years before we left London and she put on weight which is a good sign when you put on weight after having HIV, and just looked incredible.

Sid: Now Marina I’m going to ask you to worship God and this is what I believe Mishpochah, as Marina worships God, and as I worship God, and as Renny worships God, and as you worship God as this occurs I want you to worship God too.  If you’re driving I want you to pull off to the side of the road because I believe that eternity, God’s realm, is about ready to invade time, our realm.  Eternity will draw close as we worship God; this is not just techs book theology this is reality.  Marina would you worship the Lord?

Marina: (Praying in the Spirit singing song.)

Sid: Renny what are you seeing now?

Renny:  I’m seeing people being miraculously healed.  I just saw a cancer dissolve and a woman’s upper area in a woman’s chest area.  I see hernias right now leaving; even as I’m speaking I’m continuing seeing a lot of hernias leaving right now. I’m seeing somebody’s right, I’m seeing somebody with a hip condition and it’s caused your leg to be shorter than the other by about 2 to 3 inches.  I’m seeing miracles happening now with people’s bones.  I’m seeing the leg now just grow out in Jesus Name.  I just want everybody that’s sick right now to put their hands on their sickness right now it’s being healed right now, it’s being healed right now.  I just saw another hip condition; I just saw a hip that was out of place just get back into place; I’m seeing it right now.  I’m seeing a broken arm mend; I’m seeing it start to set. I’m seeing somebody right now with a leg brace on.  You’ve had the leg brace on now for about 2  to 3 years years and I don’t fully know the exact condition but you’ve had it on for at least 2 to 3 years and it isn’t getting better.  It’s a condition you were in an accident and you were cut out of the car wreck and you were told you will have to live that way and you cannot feel anything in your legs.  Right now the power of God right now is creating the feeling right now and you’re starting to feel your leg but you’ve not felt in years right now because it was stitched back on because you had a car accident and now life is coming back now to that part of the body. A creative miracle right now has just taken place; I see a woman right now I see a woman right now; I see a pelvis fracture.  I just see it again; I see another pelvis condition right now.  I see as it were somebody you had a fracture from an accident I cannot describe it but all I’m seeing is a cracked pelvis.  And you’re wearing something like a hip brace or something and right now the power of God right now goes through you right now and you’re feeling a tingling sensation right now you’re feeling it even as I’m saying it and it’s starting to be healed right now.  It’s now complete you’re going to find out if you take it off you’re going to find out it’s going to feel hard, it’s going to feel solid; the Lord has healed it it’s totally recreated it.  I’m seeing somebody right now in a wheelchair right now and I’m seeing right now where the Lord’s had is all over you.  You sense a warmth going down you, that’s right you’re in a wheelchair through a spinal condition and right now even as I’m speaking right now you can feel something going down the back of your spine going down into the nerve system.  And you’re starting to feel life come back into the spin; that’s the creative miracles right there.  In Jesus Name right now life is coming back; now you can feel the rest of your legs in Jesus Name you are healed today I can see it even as I’m speaking it.  I’m seeing it get up rise, walk; there’s people right now watching, listening to us right now with crutches… I just saw somebody specifically you just came out of the hospital you’re recovering from a stroke and you’re slow of speech but right now that paralysis right now is lifting off your face; your face is becoming normal again in Jesus Name. It’s as if the devil right now isn’t letting go of that side of your body. It’s as if he pinched your nerves and everything was held up.  All of your body right now smoothens out.  Your speech now returns; I just saw it come back right now; you speech returns.  And as a prophetic sign stand up on your feet and start to lift your knees up; start to kick your knees out and start to walk. Miracles are happening now; they are happening now.  I’m seeing a teeth condition right now, yes God even heals teeth God even does fillings. I’m seeing somebody with the back four of their teeth right now is in serious decay; I’m seeing God miraculously healing. I’m not talking tomorrow I’m talking now; a miracles happened. Oh, I’ll tell you brother Sid there are so many miracles happening right now I can barely keep up with what I’m seeing.

Sid: Renny the reason the miracles are happening is the glory realm the eternity realm has invaded time.

Renny: Yes.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is another Jewish man that is red hot for Jesus, David Herzog.  He has learned and teaches others how to enter the Glory of God; and you see there’s something called believing faith you cannot please God. As David was teaching on yesterday’s broadcast there is higher level of faith it’s called “Knowing Faith.”  Jesus walked in this realm; He knew He only did what He heard His Father saying; He only did what He would see His father doing.  And David has learned how to tap into that realm and I’m going to ask him to push his knowing and his faith in that realm and believe for the impossible in your life right now.  David Herzog, would you teach a little?

David:  Sure, in Genesis 1:1 it says “In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth” and it explains how He created.  That’s the beginning of the creative miracles if we tap into that.  It says “The Holy Spirit hovered over the waters.”  And I can feel the Holy Spirit hovering so that first ingredient is already present.

Sid: Yeah, I feel Him too.

David: Yeah, it’s real strong right now; and then it said “Then God spoke ‘Let there be light’” So for miracles right now to happen all there needs to be if the Glory or presence of God hovering as it is right now and then many times there will be a spoken word.  The glory of God plus the spoken word usually that’s when the miracles start to happen. He creates it out of the presence of God that’s already come. Even God Himself wouldn’t speak in the Genesis until He sent the Holy Spirit ahead and the presence of God and then He would speak and after that Glory began to hover.  So yeah in the next moment or so we’re going to pray for people and there’s going to be a lot of miracles and healings and creative miracles because the presence of God’s here, and then God’s going to speak a word; it will be a creative word.  The spoken word like the Roman centurion told Jesus Yeshua “Just speak the word now and my servant will be healed” because He was operating in the Glory realm.  And Yeshua said “This Roman man he’s got more faith than all Israel. Why would He say that, why was it a higher level?  Because He was operating in the Genesis 1:1 principal; just speak the word; there’s no distance in the Glory as it’s being spoken it’s being created.  The Old Testament Prophets as well, Ezekiel he said “As I spoke Ezekiel 37 “The bones came together and as I looked flesh came on the bones.”  And there’s so many passages.  Elijah declaring rain and then praying for the rain and then looking for the rain.  So this Glory realm and then speaking it out it’s really simple and things creative miracles can start to happen very very very easily.  So even as we start praying for people in just a minute just believe God.  Hebrews 11 says “The worlds were framed or formed by the world of God.”  And they’re talking there about the spoken word; He declared it and the worlds were framed.  So as I give a word let’s say in just a moment to somebody the frame is created; I’ll say for instance let’s say knees are being healed or whatever it is instantly there’s a frame in the Spirit being created.  Once that frame is created all you got to do is get into the frame like a picture frame.  Put your face in the picture; become part of the picture; so I’ll say let’s say “Knees are being healed; cartilage is being recreated.”  While I say that if you got a word like that I want you to get up out of your seat even run or jump up and down something to walk into the miracle.  Ephesians 2 says “Everything is being created beforehand that we would walk… that God has foreordained things beforehand that we would walk into them.”  So things have already been prepared even right now for this session right now and I feel the presence here and there’s going to be words come so just know as those words come forth that miracle is not going to happen, its already happened in the Spirit but you needed to do something many times for it to manifest in the physical.

Sid: You mean, give me an example what someone could do.

David:   Well, for instance if I say someone’s losing weight right now for them.  Now the frames created but then you would actually walk into that frame and start checking your waist line and seeing if you’re losing weight.  Or if I say there’s gold teeth fillings we have people with no teeth and new teeth pop in their mouth.  Well, you’d want to look in your mouth and see if it happened.

Sid: Okay as you were speaking David I saw like a plug coming out of someone’s left ear; if you had seen that what would you have just said?

David: Oh, I would have just said “I declare your ear’s opening up right now in Yeshua’s Name.”

Sid: Okay that’s for real ears open in Yeshua’s Name, back be healed, spines straighten in Yeshua’s Name.

David: And there’s also cartilage being recreated right now; someone’s missing cartilage I think it’s in your knees but it could be other parts of your body the bones are knocking.  We declare cartilage to be recreated right now in Yeshua’s Name. And get up and run or do something right now physically with it.  And there is a bunch of other healings right now. There’s a disk being recreated in the lower back; I just declare a disk being recreated right now in the lower back in Yeshua’s mighty Name. And I want you afterwards after a minute or so to move around your back and just check and see how that’s going.  There’s a bunch of others there’s someone losing weight right now; I just declare I see several dress sizes coming off right now in Yeshua’s mighty name in the Name of Jesus we command instant weight loss right now; Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  We thank You for pounds and inches and kilo to be dissolved right now; matter to be dissolved let it be uncreated in the Name of Yeshua.  We thank You right now get up right now and start checking your waist line and do something you couldn’t do. A lot of people tend to get up and run just as a sign of a prophetic act of walking into it. (Praying in the Spirit) there’s all kinds of things happening here. Do you have other words Sid that you want to share.

Sid: I want you to pray right now that everyone that is hungering and thirsting to enter into this Glory realm would supernaturally enter into that realm.

David: Praise God; let’s do that just lift your hands if you’re listening by radio or the internet lift your hands right now.  And Lord I pray right now as there’s no distance in your Glory, that you would begin to open the Heavens over your people right now that are asking for You; even those that don’t know you open the Heavens and begin to visit Your people with a fresh touch of your Glory. Take them from a river to an ocean of Glory.  We pray right now that the Glory of God come upon them with angels ascending and descending open up Jacobs ladder, open up that realm; let there be a fresh wave a tsunami wave of Glory come on Your people all over the United States and Canada and where ever they’re listening.  Just flood them right now; flood them right now, flood them right now with a fresh glory, a new glory from glory to glory that they’ve never had before.  Open their eyes that they may see Elijah said “He was able to pray for a certain servant and God opened the servant’s eyes and they saw the supernatural; they saw the angels.”  So we’re allowed to pray that as Elijah did I pray Lord “Open the eyes of Your servants Lord that they would see this other realm; that they may have not seen before.  In Yeshua’s mighty Name open that glory realm to them even those that have ministered for many many years open up a fresh new glory, a portal of Heaven for Your glory in Yeshua’s mighty name and use them powerfully and just oh, touch Your people Father in intimate way.  In Yeshua’s Name.

Sid: Now people that are feeling the presence of God; that’s all David felt when it first happened to him; isn’t that right David.

David: Yeah, exactly.

Sid: But then things just started happening so believe that it’s happened.  I would urge people to begin praying for the sick; I would urge people to begin moving into greater worship with God. How important is worship David?

David: Yeah, well worship is one of the keys there’s four main things I’ve seen when you combine them together you get the full open Heaven Glory. One is praise and worship; it’s in Heaven 24 hours a day.  King David copied that same structure; many of the prophets would worship before they would give a word.  Worship and praise was in the upper-room; praise I would just basically praise which is the kind of more faster maybe shouting exciting victory songs.  Praise Him until the Spirit of Worship comes; you’ll know when it comes because you don’t feel like shouting and dancing you just want to just sing slow intimate love songs to the Lord.  So just praise Him until the Spirit of Worship comes then worship Him until the heavy Glory comes.  And yeah there’s different things that help accelerate this realm.  There’s fasting and prayer; there’s holiness and repentance, and there’ giving unto the Lord sacrificial giving like what happened in Malachi 4 and Acts Chapter 4.  And I’ll open up the windows of Heaven, so these different realms if you combine them together we’ve done that in revivals when I told the pastors you know have them fast and pray, fast and trade do the worship this way; make sure there’s no sin in the church that you know of.  And then people are going to give in meetings and then with those 4 realms together it seems every single time an explosion of God’s Glory.

Sid: I love your teaching are you getting reports of people literally having encounters with angelic visitations or the Lord, or beginning to move in the Glory just from reading this book?

David: Oh yes, we getting just reports from all over the world; we have it in English and in French so people of all different countries are getting it. Ministers a lot of ministers wanting to move into the greater Glory for their own ministry or for their own churches are reading the book.  They go back the next Sunday morning and the church breaks out in the Glory; people can’t even hardly preach and signs and wonders are occurring.  We’ve had people one guy in Taiwan was trying to translate my book in Chinese he couldn’t finish it gold started coming all over him.  And so yeah, just angelic visitations, people taking out I the spirit for hours and they went to Heaven while they read the book.  Many different things happen as they read it so yeah, I would recommend you read it. I read the book, and I think it’s pretty good.

Sid: (Laughing) Why did you write the book?

David: As these signs and wonders were happening the Lord actually told me I didn’t have the time to write a book and the Lord said “Write the book because you’re going to go places where you’re only there a couple days and they won’t have enough knowledge to understand how to keep this in their life. So write this book so they have a tool; something they can continue reading when you gone and they can continue in that Glory realm where you couldn’t have taken them in just a couple of days.”

Sid: Okay, consider yourself challenged.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear God’s voice and be obedient and not have everything you’ve done your whole life burn up in fire. My guest Dr. Gary Whetstone had an open vision in Israel in 2005; transformed his life, transformed the members of his churches life, transformed his family’s life, and now it’s going to transform your life.  Gary you tell me every morning you hear the voice of God for what’s going to happen during the day.  How important is that?

Gary: That is so critical Sid in fact as you’re starting today’s program I’m going back to Easter Sunday, Resurrection Sunday and as a pastor you would preach a message on resurrection because it’s Resurrection Sunday.

Sid: Of course.

Gary: And this last Resurrection Sunday I get up every morning and pray to seek God to hear His voice to know what to do that day.  Of course I do it first services and so I had a Resurrection message prepared; I got up that morning and I heard God speak “Tell my people it’s time to live again.”  And nothing about resurrection life, the whole message was completely wiped out; I’ve got a couple thousand people coming to church looking to hear about Jesus risen from the dead and God spoke “It’s time to live again.”  There is a daily voice of God that doesn’t operate by religious tradition by the norms of man; by the Hallmark time like you do a Mother’s day message; on Monday you have a beginning and Wednesday you’re cutting in the middle of the week and all of the normal cycles of behavior and time.  That there is a voice of God every day that reveals that day; when I spoke that message that Sunday the people that came forward that got delivered that were living in an on hold process; things were going on; they were sitting on the shelf and God was speaking to them it’s time to live again.  Reengage, reconnect, remove all things that have obstructed My nature and step in and do what I’m speaking and the power of God in those services were overwhelming.  That’s what God is speaking to people today; there is such a plethora of information that surround people; things of cycles of behavior and ways of things that have always been and children growing up and going into cycles of education and times of activities and all of these things.

Sid: You know most church services and most life people would summarize it by saying “It’s the same old same old.”  But you know what, if the pastor’s hearing from God then people should be running to church in case they are going to miss something.

Gary: That’s the plan of God; the plan of God is we are so connected to the voice of God as we speak people hear God; as we herald the reality of His life alive.  Speaking and then now people hear God.  One of the most significant things that happened is during this time God gave me a clear picture that God committed to His early church that for 40 days He would prove to them He was alive.  And I heard the Spirit of God speaking in my spirit after this vision to take 40 days shut down all outside information. I didn’t listen to any music outside of even some of the Christian music I stopped listening to period; nothing that was entertaining if you will.  If it didn’t exalt God it wasn’t in my sight; I didn’t listen to it; didn’t listen.  If people would call me their words were about worry and frustration and anger I say “You know what God’s called me to is commit those things into God’s hands and I appreciate the fact you’re going through it but right now you know it’s not time to listen to problems, it’s time to hear the voice of God.”  And shutting it down, shutting down, shutting down and I found that 40 days that I want to challenge everyone that’s listening today there is a covenant with God that God made to take 40 day fast with Moses on the mountain; 40 days of revealing Jesus Christ alive from the dead and the power of His resurrection to His church.  I took it in my life and we took it as a church to shut down the information. Don’t watch the television entertainment; center on what is God saying to you; take again the Bible and read it.  Listen to the tape series, watch the video’s, reengage in the living voice of the Living God.  You know even a lot of Christian television Sid is nothing more than a rhetoric of showing some type of eye candy. And it just affected me in such a degree we watched 100′s of people hear God’s voice because they stopped having their mind occupied by the constant drone of negativities and fears and frustrations of “I want and I need and I have to have, and I’ve got to do and I have to pray for;” and we just shut it all down.  If fact we wouldn’t even take a prayer request for anything; it was that we first identified that Christ Himself was alive in us; and we would identify His personal presence, and from His presence He would speak. Then the circumstances that were going on around people were changing like bam, bam, bam one after another the things were coming into line.  God’s anointing was moving; His power moved into people’s lives; families got reconciled; children got off of drugs; marriages got restored.  We watched a tremendous move of God just because they shut down the attention to so many other driving influences like marketing.  I mean how much are we marketed by the agencies of today to get us to buy; get us to be, or get us to desire things.  And once you see what God’s saying all this ends and you become radical to hear the voice of God.

Sid:  Now I want to point something out to those that are listening; do you sense the anointing on what Gary is saying.  Well his entire church sensed the anointing when you take this special course that many people have taken.  Have you ever found anyone that has taken this course and done what you said to do that said “’Gary, it doesn’t work I don’t hear God’s voice.”

Gary: Sid I’ve never met anyone; not one person that has taken this course and not heard God.  It’s impossible, because God is present; He said “Today hear my voice.” That’s not what He said to me, that’s what He’s saying now to every person alive.

Sid: Give me a testimony; not yours, not your families, of someone that’s taken the course and what change occurred in their life.

Gary: This one pastor who had a church in North New Jersey; well actually it was in New York but he had a church in North New Jersey and he got a hold of the revelation of hearing the voice of God.  All of a sudden he recognized what he is doing is not what God called him to.  That he had taken the knowledge of God’s word to become somebody; he took the truth of God’s anointing to see if he could get anointed to get money so that he could become somebody.  This person shut the church down; ended up going on the mission field, finding out God didn’t call him to the mission field.  Made every decision in life going trying this, trying that only to find out that now he knows the Living Christ manifest in him hearing the voice of God and doing what God is saying.  Everything changed; you know I am confident that the people that will hear the voice of God just like that man; sometimes we do what we do with the knowledge of God to accomplish and end that we heard someone else say we should have and it is not what God spoke about us.  This man’s life; his family is now secure in that voice of God.  They’re secure in that nature of Christ; the children, I mean the whole house has completely come under a freedom and a grace to know the nature of Christ and to be confident to move in Him and knowing the voice of God and doing what He saying.

Sid: Now you’re saying we’re coming into a time where there’s really a separation between the true church and the harlot church.  The true believer and the harlot believer; what do you mean?

Gary: I mean that the body of Christ is led by the Head Jesus Himself is living through His Body. If you figure that your human body your hand cannot do anything but what the head says; it does not have the permission; it doesn’t have the functionality and it doesn’t have the mechanics.  And what happens in the church is we are mechanically, systematically, and functionally operating by another spirit.  That other spirit is clearly being separated from the true spirit of the living God.  Where Jesus Himself is speaking the nature of Christ is revealed and the body of Christ that he is in the earth is unveiled.  We are in a prophetic timeline Sid that the nature of the person of Christ alive in His church it’s the same Jesus that’s in heaven is seen, and the mechanics and the ways and the gains and the systems and the formats and the steps and the multiple issues that are plethora and just constantly droning out the true voice of God is being separated.  People in churches are disgusted; they know there is the real and they’re crying out to God “Give me the real!” And the real Jesus is standing up.

Sid: What would happen if a group of believer’s got together they could all hear God’s voice for themselves nothing would be impossible.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah. If you’ve been listening all this week I believe that you’re starting to get red hot for the Messiah. His name is Dr. Lance Wallnau I’m speaking to him at his office in Cranston, Rhode Island. I’m interviewing him on his 4 CD teaching series that I have to tell you it is mandatory teaching more so now than ever before in history. The title is called “In a Heartbeat” and what he means by that is that no matter what curve life throws at you, and some of the people I’m talking to right now have got horrible situations in a heartbeat you have access to God; in a heartbeat you have access to the supernatural. You can be above rather than below; you can be the head rather than the tail; you can be a child of the living God who you’re supposed to be than acting just like the world. Now Lance how does your teaching “In a Heartbeat” relate to relationships?

Lance: Well you know Sid we live our lives in the reality of our homes as well as in our careers. While most of my clients I’m working with will want me to bring out the best in them like we’ll deal with sports athletes, and all kinds of people to identify constraint areas in them that are getting in the way of their gifting. We love destiny, we love God, and yet somehow we tend to hinder our own answers to prayer because of blind spots, parts of us we don’t see that other people do see. As I’m working with my clients in the area of identifying constraints and breaking those constraints in their professional life, invariably they pull me aside and say “Hey does this work at home?” [Laughing] Intuitively men and women want to be able to improve the quality of the relationships they have either with their spouses, or with their children. So my research has taken me full circle to realize not only is the kingdom of God holistic, meaning it touches every dimension of culture, in terms of God’s ability to penetrate it. The truth is in a heartbeat we can begin to shift the climate of relationships with the people we care about most whether it’s a husband or wife, or our children.

Sid: Give me an actual example of say a husband and wife with perhaps marital problems, and how approaching being in the spirit makes the difference.

Lance: Absolutely. Just recently I had a couple where, this is an unusual situation because it happens to be in the Amish community. A friend of mine had gotten me an opportunity to do some coaching, counseling, with them. In this situation they are both believers, the husband has never really expressed affection to the wife, and it’s part of a culture thing.  The wife is dying for affection and she doesn’t know how to get it. So I’m talking about these concepts “In a Heartbeat” you can shift anything. She starts to shift her focus to what she wants; she wants her husband to love her to be nurturing and to be physically affectionate. Instead of talking to herself and saying “I never get what I want, my whole life I never got what I want, I’m not going to get it now.” She starts to say something different, she starts to say “I believe my husband loves me he needs to know how important it is for him to communicate.” What we’re doing is we break apart “What are you saying to yourself that is creating the climate that you’re working in?”

Sid: In other words, her focus has been wrong is what you’re saying.

Lance: Exactly. Sid this is so connected for women for instance that are longing for deeper intimacy. You know sex is a physical thing; intimacy is what women actually looking for men don’t understand the language of intimacy. What I had to do in this case was bring this man and woman to a place where the woman was able to express scripting, and here’s the key scripting, learning how to say something so that you can identify what it is you really want. So she took him by the hands, I had him look in her eyes and she said to him, she said, I won’t use his name here, she said to him “What I need from you is for you to be able to understand how important you are to me, and what I want is for us to have a greater level of love and affection. Is that something you would be willing to do for me?” The moment she spoke those words Sid it was as though the Spirit of God was on her husband. He doesn’t know what to say because guys are disconnected from feelings. So I began to talk to him about what was going on inside of him. Well his focus was on what? Inadequacy. What was he saying to himself “I don’t know if I can do this.” So I said “Catch what you’re saying to yourself. You can literally renew your mind with truth. I said “I want you to focus now on your wife’s eyes and I want you to be focusing on how precious she is. Here’s what I want you start to say to yourself ‘I am able to be whatever you need, and I am willing to give you your missing piece.’” I said those words into his ears and here’s the amazing thing Sid, she could hear me whisper to him, but the moment she heard him say it she began to weep. Because the thing I’ve learned is we as Christians, and people in general, do not know how to really meaningfully access their feelings and communicate their wants and needs in a wait that they can get them met. There are women that are settling for so much less than their heart’s… I was on an airplane with a girl who’s, I don’t people open up to me I guess they must sense I’m like a counselor or a shrink or something. She starts talking to about she’s in a relationship that the guy just mistreats her and she doesn’t know what to do. I looked at her and I said “Why are you settling for less when your heart is crying out for more?” She gasped. I didn’t even realize what came out of my mouth. She took a napkin and wrote that down. She said “That’s the question I have to answer for my whole life. Why do I settle for less when my heart is crying out for more?” I believe we are in a day now where God is releasing to the body of Christ the tools and the resources, and the teaching to live a quality of life that makes the world stop and say “What have you got that I don’t have?” Women don’t have to settle for less they can learn to access what they need, and they can learn to get their needs met from their husband.

Sid: Lance we’ve been talking about the word “focus” in your 4 CD’s “In a Heartbeat.” You talk about the need to redirect our focus, and you actually say we will become what we focus on, and that the focus you have determines the meaning that you put on events and it also determines how you feel. Would you comment on that?

Lance: Let me just say that the moment that you start thinking God thoughts and saying what God says and it goes all the way through you, body, soul, and spirit. You become a magnet to your heart’s desire, you’re like at a frequency which just shifts the atmosphere around you. For instance, I can remember when I first started discovering these principles years ago. I was broke and I had left a lucrative consulting business in order to help build churches, and the devil was always telling me I was going to be broke, and my dad, the attorney in Philadelphia, said “You’ll be as poor as a church mouse.” I figured “Gosh they must be measly looking creatures, church mice.” So I’m struggling to come up with income tax I needed like $2,000 Sid. The Lord kept saying to me “Take heed what you hear,” and that had to do with your focus. “Then take heed how you hear,” that has to do with your self-talk, the interpretation you put on things. I realized I was focusing on “How come I didn’t have money and what was I going to do with this career I’ve chosen. I’m walking with God and I’m broke.” The Lord said “I want you to shift it in the fastest way possible is through thanksgiving and worship.” I walked into a sanctuary went up to a baby grand piano, it was our church back then. I sat down in the dark I closed my eyes Sid I put my face to heaven and I began worshipping God. I immediately, this is the profound psychology of scripture, I shifted my focus and dialogue to heaven began to worship God. The anointing was moving upon me I sensed somebody came in and left, however, I didn’t open my eyes to interrupt my intercession, my worship. When I opened my eyes someone had put a $2,000 check on top of the piano.

Sid: You learned a lesson really quick about your focus.

Lance: I learned in a heartbeat, I learned that wining doesn’t work. God responds to faith.

Sid: What is God showing that will be happening to the U.S.? Do you think we’re really heading to those days that the gospels are speaking about where things are going to get really bad in the world?

Lance: Sid I see the harvest of tares, and the harvest of wheat are coming to maturity. You talk about that One New Man. I believe there may be a black backdrop in the nations, but the light of the gospel is going to shine even brighter and brighter through an overcoming people. I see a generation rising up right now that is made up of world changers and I see a world that is reeling in a direction of great trouble. I think the two are coming together on schedule.

Sid: This will be the believer’s greatest hour if they can change their state in a heartbeat.

Lance: Absolutely. It’s our time. It’s our time.

Sid: My guest his name is Louis Sheldon, he’s chairman of the Traditional Values Coalition. I have to tell you I could not believe the facts Louis that you have in your new book titled “The Agenda” subtitled “The Homosexual Plan to Change America.” I thought I understood until I read the facts you’ve accumulated in this book. Every time people have made an emphasis to talk about the homosexual community, I’m talking about people of faith. It seems as though the most powerful ones have eventually backed off. I’m sure you have been attacked for your position. How many times have you had problems?

Louis: I have been attacked 27 times.

Sid: So why do you keep this up? Why do you continue doing this? This is not an easy thing you’re doing, I mean spiritually it’s not easy physically it’s not easy.

Louis: Well I think because my roots are Jewish. My mother was an Orthodox Jew. Very clearly when you look in the book of Genesis you see when it describes the tribe of Benjamin, which my mother’s side of the family was descended from. Benjamin is referred to as a ravenous wolf that devours the prey in the morning, but shares the spoil at night. Well the night is the kingdom of God when we enter into paradise with Jesus. So I cannot be disobedient to the heavenly vision which is the word of God given to us inspired. Therefore, when you descend a family when you see what the golden object is to attack our public schools where our children are; that’s really if we can stop the gay and lesbian, and straight educators network, which is a very very…

Sid: We were talking on yesterday’s broadcast about their agenda with young children and in the school system. Tell me a few things that are going on in our school system and some districts that most people are not aware of.

Louis: Well what you have in many districts is a textbook that have been written by the Rainbow Coalition Publishing Company, called “Daddy’s Roommate.” Then you have “Heather Has Two Mommies” then you have “Gayle Goes to the Gay Parade.” These are books for little children we’re talking about when they first start to read, kindergarten, first – second grade. It’s very important for people to realize that they need to speak to their principal of the school where their children are going and ask the principal “What’s the policy of this school district, or your policy as the principal in terms of promoting or advocating that homosexuality is viable and good for children to learn about?” If he doesn’t give you an answer because if he says “We don’t discriminate against anybody in public education then you know that he is going to allow the gay and lesbian, and straight educator’s network come into his school. Either through teachers, or substitute teachers, or extracurricular seminars they have, or just assemblies for the children.

Sid: Let me read a few statistics that you have from the book we are making available “The Agenda.” I find this hard to believe some of these facts that you’ve gathered.

• 30% of currently 20 years old gay men will be HIV positive or dead of AIDS by the age of 30.
• 43% of white male homosexuals estimate having had sex with 500 or more different partners, and 28% report more than 1000 sexual partners.
• 79% who were surveyed admit that at least half of their partners were total strangers.

These types of statistics I would have to be AIDS is far more prevalent among the homosexual community than the press is letting on.

Louis: That is true the press is not letting on that the AIDS issue is just as bad if not worse than it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago when they started reporting every time there was an increase. Yes. What is even worse is that just recently since we wrote the book young people in cities like Chicago, San Francisco, Atlanta, New York City they are totally not even participating in the stopping, the spreading of the AIDS virus by using condoms. They won’t even do that they don’t care, it’s almost like they’re fatalistic is what this one report from a health department said.

Sid: This is costing taxpayers a GREAT deal of money.

Louis: Yes the average cost for a full blown AIDS patient over a period of say 5 years or so, if they do live that long. It’s a $125, 000/year. So you can see looking at around $600, 000/ AIDS patient. It’s enormous.

Sid: How high could the sum be? Are we talking billions of dollars?

Louis: Yes it’s way into the billions. It’s a system that is hurting many hospitalization programs; it is what’s driving our health care costs for employers who employ people up because all it takes is two or three, or four or five people out of a 100 people employed to raise those costs when you have that kind of hospitalization costs  against the employers employee record.

Sid: Now what organizations like the National Education Association? What is their position on this?

Louis: Well they’re very pro-homosexual they have advocated that homosexuality be taught in the public schools as a viable life alternative. They have encouraged and recognized the gay and lesbian, and straight educator’s network, they’ve done many things. Each of their national meetings each year, at those national meetings each year they pass a resolution that gay and lesbian lifestyles are as viable as the heterosexual. So they’re totally sold out.

Sid: What would you say to homosexual man who says he believes in Jesus, but he can’t help himself because this isn’t a choice, this is genetic, this is the way God made him, what would you say to him?

Louis: Well the first thing I’d say is “There is no scientific proof today, never has American Psychological, or Psychiatric Association, or a school of medicine, or a journal of medicine, or even the National Academy of Sciences ever said ‘Here is the gene it is genetic.’” So we know it’s socially driven within environmental factors. Now we don’t know about all the environmental factors, but we do know nearly 85% of the lesbians were molested as little girls by live-in boyfriends, by some kind of a relative, or even a father. I had a person just recently tell me that as a little tiny girl of just 7 years of age she was molested by her stepfather.

Sid: Now I am told that many homosexuals, a high percentage, had very difficult relationships with their father; it’s almost scientific. Is that what you found out?

Louis: Yes. When there is not that proper relationship with same sex parent, in other words it is called bonding. When there isn’t the bonding, the little boy is always in search of the male image. It’s the natural instinct, we’re men. God has made us as a male, and the same thing is true with the female when the young girl doesn’t bond with the mother then she’s always in search of a female bonding relationship. Forty-three percent of men are seduced, young boys are seduced, by older homosexuals because they think “Oh this is my friend he buys me a bicycle, he does this, he does that.” Pretty soon the little boy doesn’t realize that he shouldn’t be having this sexual relation.

Sid: Especially on television they’re supporting it; in the schools they’re supporting it. You can see how diabolical this is… Dr. Jeffrey Satinover found that 52% of those homosexuals who entered a program of therapy were able to overcome their attraction for individuals of the same sex. Well that alone shows that it is not genetic.

Louis: That is true and that organization is a wonderful organization it is called NARTH, National Association for the Reparative Therapy of Homosexuality. Many people, and those are the ones we must bless and pray for, when you come out of homosexuality it is so hard. They persecute those who have come out because they tell the story that it’s not genetic, they tell the story that Christ has redeemed them and they’ve been delivered from this kind of lifestyle. So of course the gay community is entirely threatened by those that are delivered from that social disorder.

Sid: Yet percentage wise in your book you talk about it could be as high as 2% are practicing homosexuals, or have homosexual tendencies in America. If that is true that it is that high that is still pretty low, and if it is that low how come they have so influence?

Louis: Because the media joined them many years ago in 1969 referring to them as the last frontier of discrimination. Which was the phrase that Al Gore in 2000 election campaign against Bush used that phrase himself. The press has been on their side for years; they got their real big boost when Al Gore came out and supported them and many politicians have…

Sid: Louis we’re out of time.