DONNA: And you teach people that God longs for relationships.

NATASHA: Yes. That’s true. You know this is, I think this is also a very important revelation, truth to remember. You know, usually, people come to God, even in the Gospels, people would come to Jesus because they were in need. They needed an answer.

DONNA: Yes. Yes.

NATASHA: And here we see Jesus who is, instead of immediately answering their need, start asking questions, start talking to them.

DONNA: Mm-hmm.

NATASHA: Now I think that Jesus knew that if He just answered their prayer they’ll be gone until the next need.

DONNA: Yes. Yes.

NATASHA: You know, like one preacher said that you know, you don’t give to a teenage boy a million dollars. You won’t see him for a long time.

DONNA: No. [laughs]

NATASHA: You know, so I think that’s why God wants us to keep coming, keep coming. But you know, but also, it’s because God’s purpose for every miracle, of every need that He meets, His highest purpose is relationship.

DONNA: Yes.

NATASHA: You know, we want to come to Jesus and get our healing, and then we go back to our life so often.

DONNA: Mmmm.

NATASHA: He wants us, after we get our healing, stay with Him. Everything that Jesus does, it’s with the highest purpose of relationship, friendship.

DONNA: Yes. Yes.

NATASHA: Just like it was in the Garden of Eden before the Fall. Because this is what Jesus, why He came on the earth, to bring us back to the same status and relationship that God shared with us before the Fall. 

DONNA: Yes.

NATASHA: So relationship is the final goal. And so, if you get your healing, if you get your answer today, if you believe in God for Him meeting your need, remember that His highest goal is that you could continue having a loving, intimate relationship with Him. He wants your friendship. You know, by maintaining close friendship and relationship with God we will avoid a lot of problems in the future. You know, we usually go from one problem to another. And then we’re on to Jesus.

DONNA: Mmmm. Right.

NATASHA: He says, “Stay with Me. Stay with Me.”

DONNA: That’s right.

NATASHA: Don’t just get your answer and then leave, living your life just like you lived before relying on your own strength.

DONNA: Right. Right.

NATASHA: Rely on Me every day. Let Me in your routine of life, in the minor things of life.

DONNA: Mmmm. You know, you move in miracles and in the supernatural now, but, three generations of Atheists, Communists — but four generations ago you had a Great Grandfather that had a miraculous, miraculous thing in his life. He was uneducated. He could not read. He could not write.

NATASHA: Um hmmm.

DONNA: But when he would gather his,

NATASHA: Eleven children

DONNA: Eleven children around on Sundays, and he would open that family Bible he could read the Scripture.

NATASHA: Right. Right. You know, the Bible, When my Grandmother told me this story before I became a Christian I thought it was something strange. And she probably was just making it up –

DONNA: [laughs]

NATASHA: It just was fiction.

DONNA: [laughs] She was old. Maybe she couldn’t –

NATASHA: Right. Exactly. And then, the first thing that the Holy Spirit reminded me when the day I was born again, that was the first thing that the Holy Spirit reminded me. He didn’t know the alphabet. If his neighbor would bring him a newspaper with the Stalin speech printed, he couldn’t read it. But every Sunday a miracle would take place.

DONNA: Wow.

NATASHA: He would open the Bible, point his finger, and would start reading.

DONNA: So you actually have a heritage of miracles.

NATASHA: Yes.

DONNA: It’s not like it just started for you, of course, when you became born again and started getting this teaching. But these seeds were passed along through the generations to you.

NATASHA: Um hmmm.

DONNA: I know we’re going to have to say goodbye. So, I just want to say to you. Thank you so much for watching this program every week with us, and our guests, like Natasha, that come and give of themselves, and pour out these wonderful, wonderful messages for us. [music] The faith that she speaks of, the relationship that she speaks of, this irresistible Jesus,

RON: And that’s because you have an assignment from God and you’re going to forget this junk today. So bow your head say Lord.

WOMAN #1: Lord.

RON: I thank You.

WOMAN #1: I thank You.

RON: That I’m forgiven.

WOMAN #1: That I’m forgiven.

RON: That I’m free.

WOMAN #1: That I’m free.

RON: Everything I’ve ever done.

WOMAN #1: Everything I’ve ever done.

RON: Or that’s been done to me.

WOMAN #1: Or that’s been done to me.

RON: Is gone!

WOMAN #1: Is gone!

RON: In the name of Jesus!

WOMAN #1:I n the name of Jesus!

RON: All right. Look at me. On the authority of the Word of God, Apostolic authority, I announce to you your sins are forgiven you and God will never remind you of them again. Now you say I forgive.

WOMAN #1: I forgive.

RON: Those that have hurt me.

WOMAN #1: Those that have hurt me.

RON: Now I’m going to anoint you with the oil of gladness and healing according to James 5. Is this okay?

WOMAN #1: Yes.

RON: Father, the anointing of joy. Lord, let her brow that has been furrowed by worry and fear leave! I say ah, get off her chest right now you lying devil. I say to the enemy now, um-huh, I come against a spirit of inferiority, to the lying voice that’s told her she’s nothing and nobody, that’s told her she’ll never catch up with where she’s supposed to be. You’re a liar. I restore her heritage right now and bring healing! I command the spirit of witchcraft to turn her loose right now in the name of Jesus! The tightness, the fear, I come against a spirit of fear. You leave! You obey me. Leave. Leave. Leave. I command insomnia, she hasn’t been able to sleep. I command insomnia to leave right now in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth! And I declare Lord that you will make her to lie down in green pastures and lead her beside still waters. Lord, I command every relationship that she’s in that’s been destroying her even if she thinks it’s a friend that’s drug her down, that the enemy has used will be broken and you’ll bring the right friendships into her life. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth! Do you receive that?

WOMAN #1:I  do.

RON: Do you feel it?

WOMAN #1: I do.

RON: Put both hands up. Say Father.

WOMAN #1: Father.

RON: Dress me up.

WOMAN #1: Dress me up.

RON: In the garment of praise.

WOMAN #1:I n the garment of praise.

RON: I will be happy again! [laughing]

WOMAN #1: I will be happy again.

RON: I want some joy in my life.

WOMAN #1: I want some joy in my life.

RON: And I want some rest.

WOMAN #1: I want rest.

RON: Now I want you to look at me. Turn around. Don’t do anything. Just look. I want you to look at her face. Look. See the wrinkles gone?

AUDIENCE: CLAPPING]

RON: Go look in a mirror. The Lord’s touched you!

AUDIENCE: ! [CLAPPING] Glory to God!

RON: You see her face shining?

AUDIENCE: [CLAPPING] Hallelujah!

RON: But many of them have turned their back on Israel. But you need to remember Dr. King’s undying support of the nation Israel. If you can get his message Knock at Midnight he talks about that, it’s available, he talks about his support of Israel and his opposition to abortion, by the way. I haven’t got time to go there this afternoon. I’m not, that’s a rabbit I could chase and shoot but I’m not going to do it.

AUDIENCE: [LAUGHTER]

RON: Latter Rain Movement Number Two started in 1948 with people like Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Pastor Hagin and many others. There was just a huge revival, a healing revival and an evangelistic revival. Had those rivers ever really met we’d have a different nation than we have now. And also Dr. King came up during that very same time. Think of what would have happened if the social involvement of King, the evangelism of Billy Graham, and the anointing, charismatic anointing of Roberts had all meshed in the United States of America!

AUDIENCE: [CLAPPING]

RON: Latter Rain Movement Number Two started in 1948, went to the Six-Day War in ‘67. In 1948 what happened on May 15th? Israel took their land! And the Latter Rain always has something to do with Israel’s possession of the land. But there will be a third movement but before I go there I want to identify what the Latter Rain is. I don’t know about you but I’m tired of spiritual talk. What is the Latter Rain? By the way the Lord told me in the words of the old rock and roll song raindrops keep falling on your head.

AUDIENCE: [LAUGHTER]

RON: I felt rain when I walked in here and I know there’s no leak in the ceiling. I believe we’re in an atmosphere.

AUDIENCE: !

RON: There’s a weather change.

AUDIENCE: Yes.

RON: There’s a glory cloud rising! Hallelujah!

AUDIENCE: Yeah! [CLAPPING]

RON: There’s some rain about, there will be showers of blessing!

AUDIENCE: Amen! [CLAPPING]

RON: We’re about to get into that Latter Rain and when I show you what I’m going to show you in a little bit you’re going to shout I hope if you got any shout in you! So I want to identify the Latter Rain. Now in Isaiah 55 this is where God says: Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters. You who have no money come, buy and eat. Come buy wine and milk without money without price and so forth. And then He says in that same Isaiah 55: Let the wicked forsake his ways, the unrighteous man his thought and let him return to the Lord. So he’s talking about a revival breaking out. But then He says, it’s the same place where He says: For My thoughts are not your thoughts. My ways are not your ways. Isaiah 55:8 and 9. And then he identifies the Latter Rain. I want you to know what the Latter Rain is. It’s not you doing a back flip over the pew. It’s not even your holy dance. And though I speak in tongues every day to strengthen my life it’s not your speaking in tongues. It’s not your jerk. I want you to know what it is so you’ll identify it because it may not come looking like you think it’s going to look. It may come with tattoos and a pair of blue jeans!

AUDIENCE: Oooh. That’s right. That’s right. Preach it!

I say angel, I release you to minister what Father God sent you to minister. So I want to say to those angels right now: Healing angels we release you to minister what Father God sent you to minister to the people who are here, to the people who are watching this that God will send these same angels right where you are, right into your room, wherever you may be as you’re listening the healing angels are coming and manifesting to bring a healing anointing from heaven to you. Receive it right now in the mighty name of Yeshua ha Mashiach! Amen and amen. Amen. You know there are some scriptures in the Bible that are just kinda hard to read but they’re important to read. In the Book of Deuteronomy, in— let’s see this is in—. chapter 28? (laughing) Moses is giving his farewell address to the people. And he’s been with Them all these years. They’re going to the Promised Land but he has to wait for Jesus to come into the Promised Land. So he said you know you have seen with your own eyes the miracles that God did in Egypt with Pharaoh and with all the people.

You saw the signs, the wonders, the miracles and on our journey you saw what God did. You’ve seen it with your own eyes He said. And yet God has not given you a heart to perceive, eyes to see, or ears to hear to this very day. And when I read that I thought how sad after all they’d seen. And then I thought “oooh,” what about us? We’ve seen healings, miracles, signs and wonders. Oooh! How wide open is our heart to perceive? How wide open are our eyes to see what God is doing? Are we having our ears open so that we can hear what Father God is saying? You know it’s not just about those people way back then. Their story was included in the Bible as a testimony for you and for me. They were kind of in a way representing human nature and we have a human nature. And God wants us to begin to see and to hear. You know Jesus talked about it a lot. He said you have eyes to see but you don’t see. You have ears to hear but you don’t hear! See it’s a condition that continues on and on but God says it’s time for a change! The prophet Joel said that God shared with him that in the Last Days I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Now I want you to do a test for me if you would. Would you check and see if you have any flesh? Got any flesh?

AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)

JAMES: How many of you have got flesh? Then this is for you. All right? If you have flesh it’s for you! I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. Men and women, right? And young people are going to see visions and older people are going to have dreams. Amen? Well I like that scripture because I still see visions and I think of myself as a young man of only 70 years so I’m going to just stay young and keep seeing those visions. And God wants us, every single one of us to begin to see the visions that He’s releasing. He wants us to have prophetic dreams. He wants us to see into the spirit realm. He wants us to see that heaven is open and it’s never been closed! And He wants to release things to you. Spiritual gifts, healing, signs, miracles and wonders and I tell you when heaven opens God does amazing things. For a season there over and over we encountered people that had fused vertebra in their spine. Different locations. But just in that atmosphere of God’s presence, nobody praying for Them, nobody laying hands on them, nobody put oil on them, but just suddenly all of the fusion went away and they had new vertebra. All the pain was gone and they had freedom of movement just when heaven was open and God came down. Whoawhoaa? Halle— Hahahaha!

SID: Larry, you teach on probably one of the most important questions in the Bible. What is that?

LARRY: Well, Jesus is walking with his disciples and as he’s walking, he turns and he says, “Who do men say that I am?” And then of course we know Peter says, “Well, some say you’re this, some say you’re that.” But then Jesus says the most important question, he said, “Who do you say that I am?” And Peter’s response is, “You’re the Christ.”

What you and I understand, but what a lot of people may not understand, is Jesus is a Jew talking to another Jew, asking a Jewish question and getting a Jewish response. So when he said, “Who do you say to that I am?” You can almost see Peter going, “I get it now.”

SID: Peter had the right answer. “You, Yeshua are Yeshua HaMashiach.”

LARRY: The Messiah. And the Messiah is the anointed one. And the anointed one in Hebrew means two things. He is the burden removing and the yoke destroying. And that’s so important because all Christians receive him as the burden removing, the wages of our sin is death. I receive Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, he’s removed my sins.

But he is also the yoke destroying. When you look at Jesus in Yom Kippur, on the day of Yom Kippur, and I put this in the book so people understand it, on Yom Kippur they didn’t bring him one sacrifice, to the high priest, they brought two. One sacrifice was to shed his blood so the sins would be broken, the sins would be cast away. But the second sacrifice would be to break the curses.

Jesus didn’t just come to forgive me of my sin. He came to break that family curse, that generational curse, of drug addiction, or of anger, or violence, or whatever that is in there. And so when Peter gave this response, “You are the Messiah. You’re not just here to temporarily forgive us of our sin. You’re here to break every curse.”

What happened on the day of Yom Kippur? When the curse was broken, then, when the priest went into the Holy of Holies, he sprinkled the blood seven times. How many places did Jesus shed his blood? Seven times. And so we don’t know that, and, Sid, that’s why it’s so important for people to understand these Bible prophecies, because we’re about not just to get the curse of drug addiction broken, or the curse off of our family, or the curse off our finances, we’re to get them all at one time, that gushing, as you said. We’re in that. These Bible prophecies are shouting to us, we’re in that time right now. There is nothing that I can’t do and I won’t do.

SID: Your new book, The Seven, I like that seven, Living Prophecies. Why do you say they’re living?

LARRY: Because they’re happening right now.

SID: These are predictions by God of impossible things that will happen in the future. And if you heard Larry right, he says the reason they’re called living prophecies is because you and I and Larry are alive to see it take place before our very eyes. And if that doesn’t cause your faith to be a gusher, then the gusher from Heaven, the glory’s going to hit you anyway, but what if you had both? You have had so many miracles, because he’s been a blessing to the Jewish people that the Heavens have opened in his life. Your grandson had a rare type of leukemia, no cure, no chance, given up.

LARRY: Given up.

SID: What happened?

LARRY: We were in Jerusalem for the opening of the embassy and we’re with government officials from Israel and government officials from Washington, we’re at dinner, one of the guys from Washington’s phone rings, and he said, “My wife has a prophecy for you.” And long story short, she said, “Pastor, I know you guys are busy, I know it’s late there in Jerusalem, but God told me I had to call you right now and give you this word. And the word is, the lion will roar from Jerusalem.”

ART: Wow! It’s early. Some of you were told you’ll be here till ten so maybe we can milk this a little bit but I want you to get some sleep tonight so we won’t go too long. So it’s 9:30. I’m just going to do it a couple more times but even if not everyone’s healed after this you all know what to do. Fair? In fact I laid hands on myself. I used to have scars all over my face from second degree burns. And this was before I had all this theology of healing thing figured out. But the one thing I did believe was when it says He sent His word and healed you. Right? So I was like I had these scars. The dermatologist told me it would take seven years because that’s how long it takes a human skin cell to regenerate. And that was when he said if they go away and it’s a huge “if” in his words.

So he said I don’t want to get your hopes up but this is what I’ll tell you. Two and a half years into having these scars I had a vision and I saw Jesus appear to Thomas say put your hands where the nails were. Put your hand in my side where the spear was. Right? And when I saw that picture in my mind I felt the Lord was saying to me I didn’t just take the pain and suffering for your sins so you don’t have to, but I also even now bear scars so you don’t have to. And so I ran into the bathroom. I put my hands on my face. I said Jesus take the scars. And I looked in the mirror and nothing happened. Sorry. Nothing happened. But I was so convinced that the Lord had spoken to me that I made that part of my daily routine. Shave, wash my face, Jesus take the scars. Within one month they were completely gone.

ART: I had a blast. The other day I was here filming something and the make-up artist said you know you’ve got great skin. You know I’m like yeah, that’s right. You know it. So that was two and a half years into having them which was four and a half years before it was even medically plausible. Okay? So don’t be afraid to lay hands on yourself. But I will tell you this. If you’re not seeing results ever don’t feel bad because the Biblical prescription for a Christian? It doesn’t say Christians you need to claim the right verses and all that stuff. If that works, great. Go for it. But what it says for a Christian is go to the elders of your church to pray over you and anoint you with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well.

The Lord will raise him up. So even for a Christian we’re called to go to our brothers and sisters to lay hands on us. Fair? So you don’t have to carry the weight of it yourself. Share it. Okay? But I’m hoping none of you have to use that but you just have a great story to tell somebody. All right. So one more time, if you’re not healed yet and it’s something testable. Okay? So for those who you can’t test it here you’re going to keep your hands down on this time because we’re just going to test it later. But for those who can test it right now raise your hand again. Okay. Quite a few of ‘em. So I want you all to do the same thing you did before. If you’re up here and you got nobody just agree with us. All right? So right now reach out put a hand on some of these. Yup. Wherever you are. And in Jesus” name be completely healed.  

AUDIENCE: In Jesus” name be completely healed.

ART: Now I want you all to test it out again. Test it out again. One temptation we have is we say like you know if I tried once and it didn’t work then I have to therefore try harder to make it work this time. But I’ve learned what I actually have to do is try less. Because if I’m trying that’s not faith. Okay? Faith is resting. So try less. Don’t squint harder or try to push power out your arm. You don’t have to say more words. Just keep it simple because Jesus is very simple. All right. Test it out again. Anybody healed this time? Yeah? What happened? (listening) Wow. How long on that? How long has that been going on? Years? Wow. Feet were numb. Shoulder pain. Back pain. Wow. Thank You, Lord. Whooo!  

ART: Anybody else on this side here? Yeah, yeah. What happened? Couldn’t move your arm and now you’re moving it. That’s awesome. You know I just want to— Jesus, thank you for this gentleman.  

GUILLERMO: —C’mon guys, we need to do it… Religion has taught you “Yeah, but that’s too difficult.” Nothing is impossible for God, nothing is impossible. So my announcement today is: take the limits out of God. Remove the limits. He is beyond, He is above and beyond. Take the limits out of God! —and tell Him, take the limits out of God. Yeah, we limit God. You know when I built this temple I should have said, “Well, I don’t know, I don’t have any money, I don’t know how I’m going to build it, it’s too hard.” I said “God, I don’t understand but I step out on faith.” So we understand. The introduction is why we need restoration? Because we lost how the church was founded. It was founded in the power. But today we come to church— and I enter into the end of the teaching. Okay, how can I flow in the supernatural? Would you like to learn? (Audience says “Yes”) I like the way Sid does it… Would you like to flow in the supernatural?

AUDIENCE: Yes—yeah.

GUILLERMO: Mmmm, over here, can you help me, would you like to flow in the supernatural?

AUDIENCE: Yes! (LOUDER, CLAPPING)

GUILLERMO: Okay, what [does] supernatural mean? Supernatural: miracles, signs and wonders, all things that belongs to the Spirit of God, miracles, signs and wonders, casting out demons, gifts of the Spirit, everything that has to do with the Spirit. And people today— how can we flow in the supernatural? Number one, to flow in the supernatural, number one we need to have a great expectation for the supernatural. The majority of the churches in America they have ZERO expectation for anything supernatural in the church. They come to church to hear a message, not to see a message. They come to church and they say “Well, that was a nice word, praise Jesus,” but you going back to the same doctor with the same sickness. Oh, that was a nice word. Well let me tell you what happened.

We are satisfied with just a 25 minute message and we don’t put demand on the preachers to demonstrate what he preaches. Because in America we are satisfied with knowledge. —That was a very nice message, praise Jesus. But you going to the same pills, to take the same pills every day because you got depression. So it doesn’t change anything. So the word without the spirit the letters kills. The scripture is not a magical book that you read it and something happens. If the breath of the Spirit is not there nothing will happen. In church today, Jesus said: Pharisees you err in the scripture and the power of God. They knew the scriptures, they knew the scriptures, they knew Hebrew, they knew it, but the thing is they knew the Torah but they didn’t have revelation. They didn’t have revelation.

There are some things there that only the Holy Spirit will give you the breath and the understanding, you will be floated with revelation with lights when it comes to you and then when you speak your words are alive. I can tell you testimonies after testimonies of dramatic transformation of the heart, people that come, thousands of young people coming into the altar bringing guns and weeds and marijuana and throwing them on the altar— they’re weeping and crying, conviction of the Holy Spirit. It’s not just the letter. The letter kills but people are very satisfied, “oh, that’s a nice, great message” but you [are] depressed. So what’s my point? My point is to move in the supernatural you must have an expectation for the supernatural. I wish I could hear an “amen” over here!

Pat Schatzline: Hey, this is Pat Schatzline! Welcome to Something More! I am so excited because really one of the churches that God has used to awaken America their pastor is here with us right now! And Patricia Bootsma, thank you for coming here! Thank you for coming and being a part of what and telling us all that God is doing! And so I’m so glad to have you here with us today!

Patricia Bootsma: Thank you so much for having me! I’m excited!

PAT: You know your heart burns for the next generation! And you and your husband John, God uses you guys! You lead Catch the Fire church there in Toronto and tell us what’s going on there right now.

PATRICIA: Well at the church great things are happening! I’ll tell you God has been moving now for really or 24 years with this outpouring of the Spirit. So right now I would say there’s just a lot of salvations, like around, I don’t know, 20 a week let’s say.

PAT: Wow.

PATRICIA: And so we’ve, you know, increased our services. God is moving! His presence is there. And there’s been planting of churches, Catch the Fire Churches worldwide! So yeah God’s doing some really good stuff up in Toronto!

PAT: And John and Carol Arnott are over the whole vision type of thing?

PATRICIA: Absolutely! They’re going strong in their 70’s traveling the world. They haven’t stopped just bringing revival to the four corners of the globe!

PAT: You know I had a chance, Karen and I, we minister a great deal in Canada and I had an opportunity, one Sunday night, a youth conference there at the Airport Vineyard and now it’s Catch the Fire. And when you know when you pull on the grounds you feel the glory of the Lord! You feel the presence of God!  

PATRICIA: Yeah!

PAT: I really believe with all my heart that something God spoke to us is that we’re stepping into the prodigal awakening. 2018 would mark – the number 18 is chai. In the Hebrew it means

 life! And I really believe we’re about to see the prodigals come home!

PATRICIA: Oh.

PAT: And you know the Lord has used you to write a book, a powerful book, Raising Burning Hearts. Which man, when I saw the title I’m like okay! We’re about to have some Holy Ghost on TV! But tell us how God has used you even in your own family to get 6 children. Talk to me about that. 

PATRICIA: Yeah. We have 6 children. So one son and five daughters. Three are married. But you know if the great commandment is that we are to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, strength, then I would see that as the most important thing that I’m going to want to impart to my kids is that they would love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength! And so this began just a time of enquiring of the Father who knows how to father, how to parent!  

PAT: Yeah.

PATRICIA: And how can we raise kids that really love You and walk in the fullness of their destiny? So the Lord has taught us some things along the line, along the way. Our oldest is 26, the youngest is 14. And so yeah I put it in the book. And one of the things it’s just you know the power of blessing! The power of speaking blessing! The power of speaking identity! I actually do a lot of prophetic teaching around the world but I want to be a prophet in my own home before I’m a prophet in the nations! Like how can we call out, you know, the destiny of God on our kids? And for every word of correction there really should be like 7 to 10 words of affirmation of you’re doing amazing or what has God called you to do or called you to be? So you know we’ve really learned some of those things. One of the things we like to say over our kids is you’re the head and not the tail. You’re above and not beneath! You’ll lend to many nations and never have to borrow. Everything you put your hands to prospers and succeeds!  

PAT: Wow!

JOHN: Okay. Jesus made a statement. He’s speaking to the “11.” Judas has already gone to betray Him. These are the eleven closest men to Him on the face of the earth. These have been His very best friends. Jesus is allowed to have friends, you know that, right? Okay. So Jesus looks at these guys after Judas leaves. And He says “No longer do I call you servants.” Now the fact that He says no longer do I call you servants means at one time they were looked at and merely regarded as servants. That’s not a revelation, that’s a grammar lesson. Okay? Why does God do that with us? Why is there a time in our walk with Him that even though we’re an “heir” He treats us as a servant? Remember Galatians 4:1 “As long the heir is a child he differs nothing from the servant.” Why? Now listen, this is so important that you understand this.

Why is there a time when even though we are an heir God has to treat us as a servant? Can I tell you why? To protect us. Because He loves us so much. He doesn’t want happening to us what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. Okay, let me give you an example that’s really weak but it works, okay? We worked for two very large ministries, worldwide ministries back in the 1980’s. One had a staff of 450 people, the other one had a staff of 150 people. When we were launched into our own ministry in 1990 I came up with a new concept of leadership. Every employee’s going to be my best friend. So some of you already know the stupidity of that wisdom. Okay. So I hired our first guy on. His name was John. And I employed my new strategy. He’s my best buddy. So we’re playing basketball, we would even watch videos, he’d hang out at the house constantly, he’d eat dinner with us all the time, best— the guy was great the first year, until I had to bring some minor correction to him.

Because at our resource table he was treating people kind of rude. And so I sat him down after a year and I said, John, listen, these are God’s people. We love them. I don’t want you to be unapproachable at the table. I want you to smile more, I want you to help them. And he looks back at me, no kidding, and he points his finger at me and he starts railing on me. Well you’re this and you’re that and you’re this. And I’m sitting there going, “Ho, my, my.” So I immediately look inside, I said Lord, what do I do? And the Lord said, “Fire him.” So I let him completely vent. And when he’s done venting, I said, “Well you can’t work for Messenger International anymore. I’m going to have to ask you to leave. Well he storms out. He’s mad. And I start crying “cause I really cared about the guy.

Now I’m crying and the Holy Spirit speaks to me and says, “He will be back working for you and he will be twice as faithful.” So three months go by, I haven’t heard a peep from him, don’t know what’s going on in his life, I have no idea. And I get a phone call from him. He says, John, this is John. He said for the (laughter). He said for the last, for the, for the last three months God has dealt with me and really spoken to me like He’s never spoken to me before. He said, John, I lost sight of the place God had put you in my life. I lost sight of the place God had placed me in your life. He said I started treating you as common and ordinary. He said I did the same thing with Lisa and he said God has really dealt with me. And he said I am just calling to tell you I am so sorry. I really, really misunderstood and lost sight of who you were in my life. I said John, I forgive you.

Well I talked a few more minutes. I said would you, would you come back and work for us? He said “Absolutely!” He came back and worked for us, we never had problems with him in that area again. Now 24 years later I have a new policy. I have 30 employees, right? My policy now is I will not share intimate things of my life with any of my employees until I know first of all they’re very established in who God made them to be in my life and Lisa’s life and until, well they’re very established in who I am in their life and they’re very established in who they are in my life. Right? Are you with me? Because I don’t want to destroy— and I don’t do this because I’m scared to reveal my heart to my employees. I don’t want to destroy them like I almost destroyed that young man.

But once I know an employee of ours, a team member of ours is very established in who I am, and very established in who they are, I’ll bring ‘emin. Some of my employees are my closest friends. Okay? So this is what God says to us: He says until you’re very established in who you are before Me, and very established in who I am before you, I got to keep you at a servant level even though you’re an heir because I don’t want happening to you what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. But once you’re established in who I am in your life and who you are in my life, the fear of the Lord, I can bring you in as a close friend. Are you seeing this?

Heaven was just awesome like that. When you could see those buildings sitting there and you could listen to that river, I could listen to it all day. Like little children. It was beautiful. One of the most wonderful things I’ve ever seen or heard in my life. I got to see that while I was up in Heaven. Heaven is unbelievable, Sid.

SID: You were telling me the difference between living 100% in the spirit or maybe as a believer, 2% in the spirit and 98% still in the flesh. What’s it like to live all in the spirit 100%?

IVAN: Wow. Okay. That’s a loaded question Sid.

SID: I know.

IVAN: It is a feeling that I wish I could put it into words for you, but I’ll tell you this. Every time I get a chance that I can be alone with God and I can get into the spirit … And I really mean this because I really love that feeling … When you’re there, when the glory of God is on you and it’s so strong on you, you’ll never feel anything like it. It penetrates every part of your being. You smell it, you taste it, you feel it. Every single thing. You hear it. You feel, hear, taste and see the glory of God. And it’s all over you. No matter where you go in Heaven, it’s on you. And that’s something that you can once, that’s on you, it’s with you forever. It’s unbelievable. It’s great.

SID: You told me, in Heaven you know everything. You don’t have to go on a computer. What is this?

IVAN: It’s like, you could look at like, we use Google today, but you could look at it and go, I instantly knew everything about it. Everything you did. You could see it’s your spirit. Our minds are more of a filter than it is what we think it is. Our brains are. Our spirit knows everything. Our spirit is alive. Our spirit never rests. It’s awake 24/7. Because there is no day and night in Heaven. It’s all the time. It just is.

SID: So the more on Earth, the more we yield to the spirit as opposed to our sense knowledge of our flesh, the more we have Heaven on Earth.

IVAN: Absolutely. You got it. That’s exactly right, Sid.

SID: I got it.

IVAN: You got it.

SID: What about time in Heaven?

IVAN: There’s no time. You can spend one second in Heaven and you feel like you’ve been there 10 years. You spend almost three hours in Heaven, let me tell you what … People joke around and they say 1000 years is like, one day is like a thousand years. Well, if that’s the case, I was 44 years in Heaven because I was there for about three hours. So it was great. I got to see a lot of things and there’s no time. And it’s just beautiful. You can’t judge distance because it’s just so vast. You can never imagine how big it is.

SID: You were shown end time events. Yes. Even … And this is phenomenal. You read in the Book of Genesis how God created the Earth. You had a ringside seat in Heaven how God created the Earth. What was that like?