I say angel, I release you to minister what Father God sent you to minister. So I want to say to those angels right now: Healing angels we release you to minister what Father God sent you to minister to the people who are here, to the people who are watching this that God will send these same angels right where you are, right into your room, wherever you may be as you’re listening the healing angels are coming and manifesting to bring a healing anointing from heaven to you. Receive it right now in the mighty name of Yeshua ha Mashiach! Amen and amen. Amen. You know there are some scriptures in the Bible that are just kinda hard to read but they’re important to read. In the Book of Deuteronomy, in— let’s see this is in—. chapter 28? (laughing) Moses is giving his farewell address to the people. And he’s been with Them all these years. They’re going to the Promised Land but he has to wait for Jesus to come into the Promised Land. So he said you know you have seen with your own eyes the miracles that God did in Egypt with Pharaoh and with all the people.

You saw the signs, the wonders, the miracles and on our journey you saw what God did. You’ve seen it with your own eyes He said. And yet God has not given you a heart to perceive, eyes to see, or ears to hear to this very day. And when I read that I thought how sad after all they’d seen. And then I thought “oooh,” what about us? We’ve seen healings, miracles, signs and wonders. Oooh! How wide open is our heart to perceive? How wide open are our eyes to see what God is doing? Are we having our ears open so that we can hear what Father God is saying? You know it’s not just about those people way back then. Their story was included in the Bible as a testimony for you and for me. They were kind of in a way representing human nature and we have a human nature. And God wants us to begin to see and to hear. You know Jesus talked about it a lot. He said you have eyes to see but you don’t see. You have ears to hear but you don’t hear! See it’s a condition that continues on and on but God says it’s time for a change! The prophet Joel said that God shared with him that in the Last Days I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Now I want you to do a test for me if you would. Would you check and see if you have any flesh? Got any flesh?

AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)

JAMES: How many of you have got flesh? Then this is for you. All right? If you have flesh it’s for you! I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. Men and women, right? And young people are going to see visions and older people are going to have dreams. Amen? Well I like that scripture because I still see visions and I think of myself as a young man of only 70 years so I’m going to just stay young and keep seeing those visions. And God wants us, every single one of us to begin to see the visions that He’s releasing. He wants us to have prophetic dreams. He wants us to see into the spirit realm. He wants us to see that heaven is open and it’s never been closed! And He wants to release things to you. Spiritual gifts, healing, signs, miracles and wonders and I tell you when heaven opens God does amazing things. For a season there over and over we encountered people that had fused vertebra in their spine. Different locations. But just in that atmosphere of God’s presence, nobody praying for Them, nobody laying hands on them, nobody put oil on them, but just suddenly all of the fusion went away and they had new vertebra. All the pain was gone and they had freedom of movement just when heaven was open and God came down. Whoawhoaa? Halle— Hahahaha!

SID: Larry, you teach on probably one of the most important questions in the Bible. What is that?

LARRY: Well, Jesus is walking with his disciples and as he’s walking, he turns and he says, “Who do men say that I am?” And then of course we know Peter says, “Well, some say you’re this, some say you’re that.” But then Jesus says the most important question, he said, “Who do you say that I am?” And Peter’s response is, “You’re the Christ.”

What you and I understand, but what a lot of people may not understand, is Jesus is a Jew talking to another Jew, asking a Jewish question and getting a Jewish response. So when he said, “Who do you say to that I am?” You can almost see Peter going, “I get it now.”

SID: Peter had the right answer. “You, Yeshua are Yeshua HaMashiach.”

LARRY: The Messiah. And the Messiah is the anointed one. And the anointed one in Hebrew means two things. He is the burden removing and the yoke destroying. And that’s so important because all Christians receive him as the burden removing, the wages of our sin is death. I receive Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, he’s removed my sins.

But he is also the yoke destroying. When you look at Jesus in Yom Kippur, on the day of Yom Kippur, and I put this in the book so people understand it, on Yom Kippur they didn’t bring him one sacrifice, to the high priest, they brought two. One sacrifice was to shed his blood so the sins would be broken, the sins would be cast away. But the second sacrifice would be to break the curses.

Jesus didn’t just come to forgive me of my sin. He came to break that family curse, that generational curse, of drug addiction, or of anger, or violence, or whatever that is in there. And so when Peter gave this response, “You are the Messiah. You’re not just here to temporarily forgive us of our sin. You’re here to break every curse.”

What happened on the day of Yom Kippur? When the curse was broken, then, when the priest went into the Holy of Holies, he sprinkled the blood seven times. How many places did Jesus shed his blood? Seven times. And so we don’t know that, and, Sid, that’s why it’s so important for people to understand these Bible prophecies, because we’re about not just to get the curse of drug addiction broken, or the curse off of our family, or the curse off our finances, we’re to get them all at one time, that gushing, as you said. We’re in that. These Bible prophecies are shouting to us, we’re in that time right now. There is nothing that I can’t do and I won’t do.

SID: Your new book, The Seven, I like that seven, Living Prophecies. Why do you say they’re living?

LARRY: Because they’re happening right now.

SID: These are predictions by God of impossible things that will happen in the future. And if you heard Larry right, he says the reason they’re called living prophecies is because you and I and Larry are alive to see it take place before our very eyes. And if that doesn’t cause your faith to be a gusher, then the gusher from Heaven, the glory’s going to hit you anyway, but what if you had both? You have had so many miracles, because he’s been a blessing to the Jewish people that the Heavens have opened in his life. Your grandson had a rare type of leukemia, no cure, no chance, given up.

LARRY: Given up.

SID: What happened?

LARRY: We were in Jerusalem for the opening of the embassy and we’re with government officials from Israel and government officials from Washington, we’re at dinner, one of the guys from Washington’s phone rings, and he said, “My wife has a prophecy for you.” And long story short, she said, “Pastor, I know you guys are busy, I know it’s late there in Jerusalem, but God told me I had to call you right now and give you this word. And the word is, the lion will roar from Jerusalem.”

ART: Wow! It’s early. Some of you were told you’ll be here till ten so maybe we can milk this a little bit but I want you to get some sleep tonight so we won’t go too long. So it’s 9:30. I’m just going to do it a couple more times but even if not everyone’s healed after this you all know what to do. Fair? In fact I laid hands on myself. I used to have scars all over my face from second degree burns. And this was before I had all this theology of healing thing figured out. But the one thing I did believe was when it says He sent His word and healed you. Right? So I was like I had these scars. The dermatologist told me it would take seven years because that’s how long it takes a human skin cell to regenerate. And that was when he said if they go away and it’s a huge “if” in his words.

So he said I don’t want to get your hopes up but this is what I’ll tell you. Two and a half years into having these scars I had a vision and I saw Jesus appear to Thomas say put your hands where the nails were. Put your hand in my side where the spear was. Right? And when I saw that picture in my mind I felt the Lord was saying to me I didn’t just take the pain and suffering for your sins so you don’t have to, but I also even now bear scars so you don’t have to. And so I ran into the bathroom. I put my hands on my face. I said Jesus take the scars. And I looked in the mirror and nothing happened. Sorry. Nothing happened. But I was so convinced that the Lord had spoken to me that I made that part of my daily routine. Shave, wash my face, Jesus take the scars. Within one month they were completely gone.

ART: I had a blast. The other day I was here filming something and the make-up artist said you know you’ve got great skin. You know I’m like yeah, that’s right. You know it. So that was two and a half years into having them which was four and a half years before it was even medically plausible. Okay? So don’t be afraid to lay hands on yourself. But I will tell you this. If you’re not seeing results ever don’t feel bad because the Biblical prescription for a Christian? It doesn’t say Christians you need to claim the right verses and all that stuff. If that works, great. Go for it. But what it says for a Christian is go to the elders of your church to pray over you and anoint you with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well.

The Lord will raise him up. So even for a Christian we’re called to go to our brothers and sisters to lay hands on us. Fair? So you don’t have to carry the weight of it yourself. Share it. Okay? But I’m hoping none of you have to use that but you just have a great story to tell somebody. All right. So one more time, if you’re not healed yet and it’s something testable. Okay? So for those who you can’t test it here you’re going to keep your hands down on this time because we’re just going to test it later. But for those who can test it right now raise your hand again. Okay. Quite a few of ‘em. So I want you all to do the same thing you did before. If you’re up here and you got nobody just agree with us. All right? So right now reach out put a hand on some of these. Yup. Wherever you are. And in Jesus” name be completely healed.  

AUDIENCE: In Jesus” name be completely healed.

ART: Now I want you all to test it out again. Test it out again. One temptation we have is we say like you know if I tried once and it didn’t work then I have to therefore try harder to make it work this time. But I’ve learned what I actually have to do is try less. Because if I’m trying that’s not faith. Okay? Faith is resting. So try less. Don’t squint harder or try to push power out your arm. You don’t have to say more words. Just keep it simple because Jesus is very simple. All right. Test it out again. Anybody healed this time? Yeah? What happened? (listening) Wow. How long on that? How long has that been going on? Years? Wow. Feet were numb. Shoulder pain. Back pain. Wow. Thank You, Lord. Whooo!  

ART: Anybody else on this side here? Yeah, yeah. What happened? Couldn’t move your arm and now you’re moving it. That’s awesome. You know I just want to— Jesus, thank you for this gentleman.  

GUILLERMO: —C’mon guys, we need to do it… Religion has taught you “Yeah, but that’s too difficult.” Nothing is impossible for God, nothing is impossible. So my announcement today is: take the limits out of God. Remove the limits. He is beyond, He is above and beyond. Take the limits out of God! —and tell Him, take the limits out of God. Yeah, we limit God. You know when I built this temple I should have said, “Well, I don’t know, I don’t have any money, I don’t know how I’m going to build it, it’s too hard.” I said “God, I don’t understand but I step out on faith.” So we understand. The introduction is why we need restoration? Because we lost how the church was founded. It was founded in the power. But today we come to church— and I enter into the end of the teaching. Okay, how can I flow in the supernatural? Would you like to learn? (Audience says “Yes”) I like the way Sid does it… Would you like to flow in the supernatural?

AUDIENCE: Yes—yeah.

GUILLERMO: Mmmm, over here, can you help me, would you like to flow in the supernatural?

AUDIENCE: Yes! (LOUDER, CLAPPING)

GUILLERMO: Okay, what [does] supernatural mean? Supernatural: miracles, signs and wonders, all things that belongs to the Spirit of God, miracles, signs and wonders, casting out demons, gifts of the Spirit, everything that has to do with the Spirit. And people today— how can we flow in the supernatural? Number one, to flow in the supernatural, number one we need to have a great expectation for the supernatural. The majority of the churches in America they have ZERO expectation for anything supernatural in the church. They come to church to hear a message, not to see a message. They come to church and they say “Well, that was a nice word, praise Jesus,” but you going back to the same doctor with the same sickness. Oh, that was a nice word. Well let me tell you what happened.

We are satisfied with just a 25 minute message and we don’t put demand on the preachers to demonstrate what he preaches. Because in America we are satisfied with knowledge. —That was a very nice message, praise Jesus. But you going to the same pills, to take the same pills every day because you got depression. So it doesn’t change anything. So the word without the spirit the letters kills. The scripture is not a magical book that you read it and something happens. If the breath of the Spirit is not there nothing will happen. In church today, Jesus said: Pharisees you err in the scripture and the power of God. They knew the scriptures, they knew the scriptures, they knew Hebrew, they knew it, but the thing is they knew the Torah but they didn’t have revelation. They didn’t have revelation.

There are some things there that only the Holy Spirit will give you the breath and the understanding, you will be floated with revelation with lights when it comes to you and then when you speak your words are alive. I can tell you testimonies after testimonies of dramatic transformation of the heart, people that come, thousands of young people coming into the altar bringing guns and weeds and marijuana and throwing them on the altar— they’re weeping and crying, conviction of the Holy Spirit. It’s not just the letter. The letter kills but people are very satisfied, “oh, that’s a nice, great message” but you [are] depressed. So what’s my point? My point is to move in the supernatural you must have an expectation for the supernatural. I wish I could hear an “amen” over here!

Pat Schatzline: Hey, this is Pat Schatzline! Welcome to Something More! I am so excited because really one of the churches that God has used to awaken America their pastor is here with us right now! And Patricia Bootsma, thank you for coming here! Thank you for coming and being a part of what and telling us all that God is doing! And so I’m so glad to have you here with us today!

Patricia Bootsma: Thank you so much for having me! I’m excited!

PAT: You know your heart burns for the next generation! And you and your husband John, God uses you guys! You lead Catch the Fire church there in Toronto and tell us what’s going on there right now.

PATRICIA: Well at the church great things are happening! I’ll tell you God has been moving now for really or 24 years with this outpouring of the Spirit. So right now I would say there’s just a lot of salvations, like around, I don’t know, 20 a week let’s say.

PAT: Wow.

PATRICIA: And so we’ve, you know, increased our services. God is moving! His presence is there. And there’s been planting of churches, Catch the Fire Churches worldwide! So yeah God’s doing some really good stuff up in Toronto!

PAT: And John and Carol Arnott are over the whole vision type of thing?

PATRICIA: Absolutely! They’re going strong in their 70’s traveling the world. They haven’t stopped just bringing revival to the four corners of the globe!

PAT: You know I had a chance, Karen and I, we minister a great deal in Canada and I had an opportunity, one Sunday night, a youth conference there at the Airport Vineyard and now it’s Catch the Fire. And when you know when you pull on the grounds you feel the glory of the Lord! You feel the presence of God!  

PATRICIA: Yeah!

PAT: I really believe with all my heart that something God spoke to us is that we’re stepping into the prodigal awakening. 2018 would mark – the number 18 is chai. In the Hebrew it means

 life! And I really believe we’re about to see the prodigals come home!

PATRICIA: Oh.

PAT: And you know the Lord has used you to write a book, a powerful book, Raising Burning Hearts. Which man, when I saw the title I’m like okay! We’re about to have some Holy Ghost on TV! But tell us how God has used you even in your own family to get 6 children. Talk to me about that. 

PATRICIA: Yeah. We have 6 children. So one son and five daughters. Three are married. But you know if the great commandment is that we are to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, strength, then I would see that as the most important thing that I’m going to want to impart to my kids is that they would love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength! And so this began just a time of enquiring of the Father who knows how to father, how to parent!  

PAT: Yeah.

PATRICIA: And how can we raise kids that really love You and walk in the fullness of their destiny? So the Lord has taught us some things along the line, along the way. Our oldest is 26, the youngest is 14. And so yeah I put it in the book. And one of the things it’s just you know the power of blessing! The power of speaking blessing! The power of speaking identity! I actually do a lot of prophetic teaching around the world but I want to be a prophet in my own home before I’m a prophet in the nations! Like how can we call out, you know, the destiny of God on our kids? And for every word of correction there really should be like 7 to 10 words of affirmation of you’re doing amazing or what has God called you to do or called you to be? So you know we’ve really learned some of those things. One of the things we like to say over our kids is you’re the head and not the tail. You’re above and not beneath! You’ll lend to many nations and never have to borrow. Everything you put your hands to prospers and succeeds!  

PAT: Wow!

JOHN: Okay. Jesus made a statement. He’s speaking to the “11.” Judas has already gone to betray Him. These are the eleven closest men to Him on the face of the earth. These have been His very best friends. Jesus is allowed to have friends, you know that, right? Okay. So Jesus looks at these guys after Judas leaves. And He says “No longer do I call you servants.” Now the fact that He says no longer do I call you servants means at one time they were looked at and merely regarded as servants. That’s not a revelation, that’s a grammar lesson. Okay? Why does God do that with us? Why is there a time in our walk with Him that even though we’re an “heir” He treats us as a servant? Remember Galatians 4:1 “As long the heir is a child he differs nothing from the servant.” Why? Now listen, this is so important that you understand this.

Why is there a time when even though we are an heir God has to treat us as a servant? Can I tell you why? To protect us. Because He loves us so much. He doesn’t want happening to us what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. Okay, let me give you an example that’s really weak but it works, okay? We worked for two very large ministries, worldwide ministries back in the 1980’s. One had a staff of 450 people, the other one had a staff of 150 people. When we were launched into our own ministry in 1990 I came up with a new concept of leadership. Every employee’s going to be my best friend. So some of you already know the stupidity of that wisdom. Okay. So I hired our first guy on. His name was John. And I employed my new strategy. He’s my best buddy. So we’re playing basketball, we would even watch videos, he’d hang out at the house constantly, he’d eat dinner with us all the time, best— the guy was great the first year, until I had to bring some minor correction to him.

Because at our resource table he was treating people kind of rude. And so I sat him down after a year and I said, John, listen, these are God’s people. We love them. I don’t want you to be unapproachable at the table. I want you to smile more, I want you to help them. And he looks back at me, no kidding, and he points his finger at me and he starts railing on me. Well you’re this and you’re that and you’re this. And I’m sitting there going, “Ho, my, my.” So I immediately look inside, I said Lord, what do I do? And the Lord said, “Fire him.” So I let him completely vent. And when he’s done venting, I said, “Well you can’t work for Messenger International anymore. I’m going to have to ask you to leave. Well he storms out. He’s mad. And I start crying “cause I really cared about the guy.

Now I’m crying and the Holy Spirit speaks to me and says, “He will be back working for you and he will be twice as faithful.” So three months go by, I haven’t heard a peep from him, don’t know what’s going on in his life, I have no idea. And I get a phone call from him. He says, John, this is John. He said for the (laughter). He said for the last, for the, for the last three months God has dealt with me and really spoken to me like He’s never spoken to me before. He said, John, I lost sight of the place God had put you in my life. I lost sight of the place God had placed me in your life. He said I started treating you as common and ordinary. He said I did the same thing with Lisa and he said God has really dealt with me. And he said I am just calling to tell you I am so sorry. I really, really misunderstood and lost sight of who you were in my life. I said John, I forgive you.

Well I talked a few more minutes. I said would you, would you come back and work for us? He said “Absolutely!” He came back and worked for us, we never had problems with him in that area again. Now 24 years later I have a new policy. I have 30 employees, right? My policy now is I will not share intimate things of my life with any of my employees until I know first of all they’re very established in who God made them to be in my life and Lisa’s life and until, well they’re very established in who I am in their life and they’re very established in who they are in my life. Right? Are you with me? Because I don’t want to destroy— and I don’t do this because I’m scared to reveal my heart to my employees. I don’t want to destroy them like I almost destroyed that young man.

But once I know an employee of ours, a team member of ours is very established in who I am, and very established in who they are, I’ll bring ‘emin. Some of my employees are my closest friends. Okay? So this is what God says to us: He says until you’re very established in who you are before Me, and very established in who I am before you, I got to keep you at a servant level even though you’re an heir because I don’t want happening to you what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. But once you’re established in who I am in your life and who you are in my life, the fear of the Lord, I can bring you in as a close friend. Are you seeing this?

Heaven was just awesome like that. When you could see those buildings sitting there and you could listen to that river, I could listen to it all day. Like little children. It was beautiful. One of the most wonderful things I’ve ever seen or heard in my life. I got to see that while I was up in Heaven. Heaven is unbelievable, Sid.

SID: You were telling me the difference between living 100% in the spirit or maybe as a believer, 2% in the spirit and 98% still in the flesh. What’s it like to live all in the spirit 100%?

IVAN: Wow. Okay. That’s a loaded question Sid.

SID: I know.

IVAN: It is a feeling that I wish I could put it into words for you, but I’ll tell you this. Every time I get a chance that I can be alone with God and I can get into the spirit … And I really mean this because I really love that feeling … When you’re there, when the glory of God is on you and it’s so strong on you, you’ll never feel anything like it. It penetrates every part of your being. You smell it, you taste it, you feel it. Every single thing. You hear it. You feel, hear, taste and see the glory of God. And it’s all over you. No matter where you go in Heaven, it’s on you. And that’s something that you can once, that’s on you, it’s with you forever. It’s unbelievable. It’s great.

SID: You told me, in Heaven you know everything. You don’t have to go on a computer. What is this?

IVAN: It’s like, you could look at like, we use Google today, but you could look at it and go, I instantly knew everything about it. Everything you did. You could see it’s your spirit. Our minds are more of a filter than it is what we think it is. Our brains are. Our spirit knows everything. Our spirit is alive. Our spirit never rests. It’s awake 24/7. Because there is no day and night in Heaven. It’s all the time. It just is.

SID: So the more on Earth, the more we yield to the spirit as opposed to our sense knowledge of our flesh, the more we have Heaven on Earth.

IVAN: Absolutely. You got it. That’s exactly right, Sid.

SID: I got it.

IVAN: You got it.

SID: What about time in Heaven?

IVAN: There’s no time. You can spend one second in Heaven and you feel like you’ve been there 10 years. You spend almost three hours in Heaven, let me tell you what … People joke around and they say 1000 years is like, one day is like a thousand years. Well, if that’s the case, I was 44 years in Heaven because I was there for about three hours. So it was great. I got to see a lot of things and there’s no time. And it’s just beautiful. You can’t judge distance because it’s just so vast. You can never imagine how big it is.

SID: You were shown end time events. Yes. Even … And this is phenomenal. You read in the Book of Genesis how God created the Earth. You had a ringside seat in Heaven how God created the Earth. What was that like?

SID: But even beyond that, things that we have done, that we know according to the Bible were forgiven, as long as the devil knows that there’s still shame and guilt, he will come and torment us.

JAMES: And when you get rid of that…

SID: How do you get rid of that?

JAMES: Well, I think there’s a special way, but it’s very hard for us to conceptualize. We know that the Lord says that when he forgives our sin, he chooses to forget it, and he doesn’t bring it up to his memory ever again. Now, you and I, and anyone watching this, were created in God’s image. So a part of who you are is someone who has the ability to forget.

The problem we have is we’ve been taught to bring it up and bring it up and bring it up. And what we need to do is learn how to forget, how to do like our Father does, like Jesus does, and forget these things. And we have that ability, if we’ll exercise it and use it. So a part of becoming prepared is to activate the gifts that God has put into us, and to be able to forget the things that are holding us back.

SID: My goodness, once that happens, it’ll be nothing but Jesus inside of us. Wouldn’t that be wonderful? James was taken to heaven and saw rooms in heaven that are available to us, like the heavenly healing room, and the glory room. The gifts he saw are available now. Next.

SID: I tell you what, you are provoking me to jealousy, Colonel. Tell me about some of these rooms you’ve seen. I know you’ve seen many of them, but tell me about the healing room.

JAMES: In a vision, I was carried in the spirit. Now, people sometimes don’t understand what you’re talking about. I think it’s something the Lord does for us so it’ll make it real. But in my perception, my spirit, soul and body were taken just to an open door, into heaven. And I was there with this huge crowd of people. I don’t know how many there were, because it was dark outside where we were, but there were hundreds of people standing there. And just in front, I saw this room, and the door was not like a rectangular shaped door, but it was like a long arch. And it looked like maybe 20, 30 people could go in at one time, side by side.

So it was a huge opening. I think when God opens something, he does a big job with it. I just felt like I was invited into the room. Now it’s open, some of the other people would go, but they wouldn’t. They just stood there. And I couldn’t understand that. But I pushed my way through the crowd and I entered into that room, and the first thing I did was to look back. Was anyone following me? They weren’t. No, they were still standing there, seemingly not knowing what to do.

So I just felt like the Lord was calling me into that room. And that room was filled with like an amber colored glow, and it was warm. It was powerful. I just knew, that was the glory of the Lord that was shining in that room. And as I moved into the room, I heard the Holy Spirit say to me, “This is a healing room.” And it was explained to me then, it was for my healing, but it was also for healing other people, and it was to release anointing’s of the gifts of healings.

JOHN: Okay, some of you aren’t getting this, some of you are. Okay, all right. All of you know me as John Bevere, speaker, some of you know me as John Bevere, author, but there is a lady, and she is a lady, her name is Lisa, Lisa Bevere. She knows me as John Bevere, husband, she knows me as John Bevere, best friend, she knows me as John Bevere, Dad, she knows me as John Bevere, Gee Daddy, that’s grandpa because I’m way too young to be called grandpa, she knows me as John Bevere, athlete, she knows me as John Bevere, lover. Now can I say this û none of you will ever know me as John Bevere, lover!

AUDIENE: (LAUGHING)

JOHN: That is a facet of my personality you will never know. Only Lisa knows it because she’s the closest person to me on this earth. God just revealed a facet of His personality to Abraham that nobody had ever known before because he’s my friend. Now if you look at the relationship between God and Abraham it’s amazing. One day God makes this statement: Should we do what we’re planning on doing with Sodom and Gomorrah without first talking to our friend Abraham about this? So the Lord comes down by the terebinth tree, has a meal with Abraham and He and Abraham leave the two angels and everybody else, all the servants and they go over to the cliff and they look over the plains of Sodom and the Lord looks at Abe and says, “Abe, we’re thinking about blowing up these two cities. What do you think?”

AUDIENCE: (BIG LAUGHTER)

JOHN: And Abe goes SODOM! And the Lord goes yeah, yeah, yeah, Sodom, and Gomorrah, too. What do you think? And Abe goes “think, think, think— Okay, okay, wait! You wouldn’t like blow up these two cities if there was 50 righteous people, would you? And the Lord goes, “Excellent idea, excellent idea! Okay, we will not blow up the cities if there’s 50 righteous people.” Glad we talked to our friend, Abraham. Abraham goes what if there isn’t 50.  He goes wait a minute, wait a minute, what about if there was 45 righteous people? Would you blow up the cities if there’s 45? The Lord goes “another good idea. Okay, we will not blow up the cities if there’s 45.” So Abraham talks Him all the way down to ten. He figures there’s got to be ten, I mean I got Lot’s, one, all I need is 9 others. Right?

AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)

JOHN: But you know there’s not. Now this is what is amazing. The Bible says Sodom and Gomorrah’s buying, selling, trading, marrying, giving in marriage, planting and harvesting. What is all that in today’s vernacular? Life is great, the economy is booming, and if there is a God, He doesn’t mind our lifestyle. They’re 24 hours from being obliterated and they’re clueless. That is not what’s scary. This is what is scary! Everybody say ‘lot”!

AUDIENCE: Lot!

JOHN: Who the Bible calls righteous. Okay, let me put it to you in today’s terminology. Saved, born again, Christian.

AUDIENCE: Right, uh, huh, c’mon now. JOHN: Lot’s 24 hours away from being obliterated. He’s as clueless as Sodom and Gomorrah. It takes two messengers of mercy, two angels, because Abraham prayed, thank God Abraham prayed, to get him out. And his wife was a little too attached, that’s why she became a pillar of salt and Jesus says in the New Testament ‘remember Lot’s wife” in speaking about the fear of the Lord.

He said, “But then you changed your prayers and you said I want to know you, I want to know you intimately. And He said, “You had sorrow, but your sorrow was worldly when you opened up with Dr. Sumrall.” He said, ‘nine months later your sorrow was godly because your heart was breaking because you knew your sin was breaking My heart.” So if you look at the difference you can see it in two kings. Saul says, “I’ve sinned, I’ve sinned.” But he’s embarrassed, so he says ‘now honor me by worshipping with me in front of my elders.”

You’ve embarrassed me in front of my elders. David, when he gets nailed, falls on his face and said “I have sinned and against You only I have sinned.” He couldn’t care less what his elders thought. So that’s the difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow.   Godly sorrow the focus is on Him, worldly sorrow the focus is on what’s going to happen to me. And when we pray that we can know Him intimately, that we can please Him the best a man or woman can please Him, now it’s all about this relationship over everything else and that’s what pleases the heart of God. See Psalm 89, verse 7 says: “God is to be greatly feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be held in reverence by all those who surround him.”

So you’ll never find the presence God in an atmosphere where He’s not held in the utmost of respect. I remember when I learned this experientially. Back in 1996, I was asked to speak in Brazil, the nation of Brazil. There were thousands of people at this conference, it was a national conference. I’m the Friday night speaker. They drive me to the auditorium. There’s cars parked everywhere. And as I come into the auditorium I can hear the worship coming from the inside of the building. Because in their big auditoriums down there, if they have a ceiling on it, there’s like a six foot gap between the upper wall and the ceiling, and it’s for air ventilation but you can hear what’s going on inside.

So they walk me in, they put me on the platform. There’s not a seat open anywhere. Thousands of Brazilians, right? So there’s no presence of God. There’s no presence of God in the whole auditorium. Now when I say this Sid, as we know there are 2 types of the presence of God. There is the “omnipresence” of God. That is where David said “where can I go from your presence? If I go to the highest mountain you’re there, if I make my bed in the lowest valley you’re there.” That’s the presence of God that says “I’ll never leave you nor forsake you.” That’s the omnipresence of God. The other presence of God the Bible speaks about is the “manifest presence” of God. “Manifest” is to bring from the unseen into the realm of the seen, the unheard into the realm of the heard, the unknown into the realm of the known. It’s when God reveals Himself to our senses. Okay? That is a very real experience in Christianity.

Jesus said, “I will manifest Myself to you,” right? So that presence was totally void in that— and I’m sitting there going ‘this is a believer’s conference.” Place is packed, best worship leaders in the nation, why is there no presence!? So I asked the Lord, I said, “God, why is there no presence?” And all of a sudden God open up my eyes and I’m looking at the people. And they’re standing there with their hands in their pocket looking around like this, they got their arms crossed looking down like this, they’re whispering to one another, they’re fumbling through their purses, and they’re walking in and out of this auditorium getting concession stand stuff, okay—